Printz Smeto Bear
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Posts posted by Printz Smeto Bear
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Not really. We sussed you out ages ago.
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Don't know why sporting integrity is even mentioned any more.
As soon as money is involved there is no way it exists.
In the amateur game there is integrity as no money changes hands.
Professional sport is a business and too much pressure to succeed both financially and in the sport means people will do anything to achieve their ambitions.
Its a shame but a reflection of todays pressures.
rep for that -
Aren't all debts to other clubs fully paid up, with future payments due to be bundled in to the CVA which may not happen?
We have been criticised for not paying other clubs, but my understanding is that no further payments are due yet. In July the next payments for Jelavic and Wallace are due.
I know the rff paid Dunfermline, has Dundee Utd been settled? There was a few other clubs in the list D&P published weeks back too but as you say some might not be due yet. Only thing about any going into CVA is that it's going to be far short of full payment, even best case scenario. Although legally settled, it would leave a bad taste if you were on the receiving end.
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Boss do you know what Celtic's wage bill is compared to ours? It must be close to double our own!
£33.6m last year according to accounts. Anyone know the per-administration figure for comparison?
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I believe that 9IAR left us in a decent shape. It was the Advocaat era when things started to be done differently.
Suppose my point was that it's how much you want the club to depend on the whim of a millionaire - no matter how generous he has been. Murray pumped the money into the club in the early - mid 90s which put Gazza, Laudrup et al on the pitch. It was his decision to stop doing this that changed things and, we can argue over the degree to which this directly/indirectly, led to the current problems. Mileson and Romanov are similar to Murray - setting up unaffordable structures then turning off the tap and that's when it goes critical.
To more directly answer your point on sporting integrity the authorities are taking a dim view of the club stopping paying its bills legally due to other clubs and particularly HMRC to continue with a team on the pitch. This is the UEFA hypocracy, they're bothered now that the money has dried up, rather than because of a lack of integrity over the big spending years. We can all be cynical over whether the fair play agenda actually remedies this.
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Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan's cash injected Man City beat the Glazer's "more than half a billion of debt" Man Utd to the English Premier League Title.
Debt loaded, government supported Real Madrid beat debt loaded, government supported Barcelona to La Liga. They can now buy another worthless piece of land to sell to their government for several millions.
Debt loaded, triple HMRC winding-up order Hearts beat Hibs with five loan players to the Scottish Cup.
Russian oligarch, Abramovic's plaything, Chelsea, beat Bayern Munich, AKA FC Hollywood, to the Champions' League.
The SPL clubs prepare to vote on exactly how many points and how much cash they will take from a fellow club, and therefore how much they themselves will benefit.
The SFA decide to hit a club with potentially no players with a transfer embargo.
A manager and club who have bullied referees and officials whilst consciously and strategically stoking up the flames of sectarian bigotry takes the title as the main rival is removed from the race. That same club also used EBTs and knowingly employed dubious and sinister characters.
And the media take on all of this?
Rangers must be punished more and more heavily.
This shows the rotten core of most of world football:
The 'best league in the world' has been won by just 5 teams over the 20 years since it was rebranded and you can directly link absurd sugar daddy investment to at least three of them (Blackburn, Chelsea & Man City), having taken over mediocre teams. Of course Man Utd had Magnier/McManus prior to Glazer, not so sure about Arsenal - but at least both of them seem to be proper businesses with profit going into the team. Leeds went belly up after winning the last 1st division title in 92 and American money into Liverpool and Villa hasn't done so well.
Of course City have already tried to find a way to circumvent the financial fair play rules due to come in with these ridiculous stadium/shirt sponsorship deals and no doubt other ways of doing so will be found.
Not sure the alternatives - fan ownership seems to work well in Germany and Spain, though only a few top clubs seem to pull this off. This is a way to channel real fans money into football, rather than it being a billionaire plaything. Wigan need not try this!
In Scotland Dundee seemed to directly suffer from investment being made, then drying up - Livingston & Gretna providing a case study into how quickly things change when the benevolence is cut off. Rangers fall into this category too, since it was SDM stopping writing the blank cheques which paid for the 90s - all that debt being racked up and a £10m a year loss being carried is shocking. Hearts are likely to be the next to fall foul of this, mostly depending on how Romanov wants to act.
So what are we looking for in Scotland - a level playing field with Europe? As long as the big clubs who win the CL are getting by, they'll not want to change anything. Nor would they like a heavily funded challenger from Russia or Scotland knocking them off their perch at the top.
We need to be honest that 9iar and the runs in Europe happened because SDM was spending more than the club was making, after a poor 80s. Anyone willing to send that back in place of the current problems? There's no reason, with the massive crowds following the Old Firm, that a funding structure taking advantage of this to pay for the team on the pitch could be found, but nobody seems to be in a position to make this happen. Indeed the route out of the woods sought by many seems to be a replacement millionaire for Murray (Whyte need not apply!). This is one of many problems I can see with Green: he is looking for profit, not necessarily success (unless that brings profit). If the CVA is not approved there is a certain arrogance that he should form a newco, and presumably benefit from the fans support of that. If it gets to that stage, surely it is for the fans to tell him to piss off and form a newco run by fans, owned by fans. Why not?
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You're all tims.
All this bluff, double bluff etc can be tricky to keep on top of
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You are a right fucking barrel of laughs aren't you.
Wait for any gloom before getting gloomy eh.
Whilst on the topic of doom & gloom - a court can increase the sentence on appeal if the judge thinks the initial one was too lenient. Given that they considered cancelling the SFA registration does anyone know if this is a possibility?
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Lets start at the beginning of this, which is when D Murray was about to sell to CW after months of protracted negotiations. P Murray came out and told everyone that CW was a bad sort (no arguments there!) and that he had offered D Murray £28M to buy the club but D Murray refused to sell it to him as he wanted to sell it to CW. At the time it sounded like sour grapes from an outgoing board member but remember the figure they quoted of £28M.
Fast forward to February of this year and our entry into administration after weeks of speculation. On 1 March P Murray arranged a meeting with some high profile Rangers fans and some fans reps to explain his plan to buy the club with a view to getting some fans support. Paperwork was shown with bits of their business plan and it all sounded very impressive. Items including a massive board of Directors including many fans reps who would represent the new tiers of shareholders which would be created with a massive share issue sometime during the 12-13 season. There were to be three levels of shareholders, the lowest starting at £1000 a share but with pay-up options to ensure fans could contribute from as little as £10pw. Democratic elections of these fans reps would ensure accountability. No issues would be excluded from the fans. All very good news. When it came to discussions of funding, it was claimed at that time that there were around 10 Blue Knights in situ, and discussions were ongoing to take that number up to 20 before the bid was due to go in. To qualify as a Blue Knight an investor would have to part with £1M minimum. Obviously this would give TBK a pot of cash to buy and finance the club of around £20M, plus the income generated from a fans share issue which was estimated could be another £20M. This would pay off the club debts, give it a firm footing, and would ensure the club would come out of admin in a much stronger position.
The one thing that we can be sure of is that Bill Miller had a much better chance of success than TBK of getting a workable CVA. That is why they were named PB. In cash terms TBK offer was only £1.5M, with other later add-ons bringing it up, but only £1.5M of cold hard cash to buy the famous Rangers Football Club. Quite a far cry fromt he £28M P Murray was supposed to have offered a year previous.
When the dust settles on this crazy saga it is difficult to envisage Paul Murray emerging with any more credit than CW or SDM. He has teased the fans with promises of glory, whilst never having any credible plan to achieve it.
As the one prospective buyer purporting to represent fans and include them in the running of the club, Murray has convinced enough fans that these millionaire 'knights' are needed as a bridge to fan ownership, whilst knowing full well none have put the money up. Perhaps as a result no grass roots fans movement has emerged and the club is in peril with no obvious saviour at hand.
I am now of the opinion that the blue knights were never sincere in their intent to save the club, rather that they were always a PR exercise posturing for legitimacy to form a newco with no baggage, having valiantly failed to slay the dragon of admin/cva/liquidation. Too cynical?
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As the title says, we all need to just take a deep breath. I have just woken up , and, as usual, the first thing i do ( ok, second after a piss) is log on here to see what rumours have occurred during my dreaming time. Now, the bottom line appears to be that we have two bidders wanting to buy us; namely, 1) Charles Green's consortium and 2) Another bidder of whom we are not sure about yet, but who is/are reportedly UK based. The problem appears to be that we are unsure if Green's consortium is the "London" consortium that D&P have mentioned or are they the new international bidder. Furthermore, this second bidder seems also to be wrapped in a coat of mystery as, from what i can see, no-one knows who they are, or even if this is the "London" based consortium. Now, D&P mentioned a couple of days ago that the names of the new bidders should make us happy as money and football knowledge was being invested , so perhaps this second bidder is going to be the one that makes us all very happy bears indeed. Either way , it seems that one of these is going to be our new owners, and if they have the cash to input, which we have been told by the admin that they do, and if they are fully intent on doing what is best for us i.e avoiding liquidation, then i am more than happy with this.
People on here, although FF seems to be the main culprit, have immediately jumped down the throat of the Green bid and protests are already being mentioned, well, hold on for just a moment....we know nothing about how much money is being invested by them if they win the bidding war, or even what their plans are, so to start the vitriolic language without any concrete knowledge is at best childish and at worst dangerous. There seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to any bid that we are unsure about, although given what we have been through with CW then i have to say that i understand this. Once bitten, twice shy seems to be the order of the day here. However, we need to put our trust in someone, because if we don't then we could be left with tumbleweed blowing across Ibrox, as the worst enemy could end up being ourselves. I can understand many people wanting TBK do be our new owners, in fact, i would have wanted them, too, but unfortunately they don't/ didn't ( not sure which tense to use here given the way things are going) have the necessary funds; after all, we all want Rangers minded people in charge.
Regarding the Green bid, then i would have to say that if this is the "international" consortium bid then i for one would have no problems with this, as i have spent a lot of time in the Malaysian/Singapore area and these guys are football nuts; therefore, our global brand would be greatly enhanced, which, in today's football world, can only be a good thing. Don't get me wrong though, i absolutely hate the way that football has become a business as opposed to a sport, and i think every football fan thinks this way. Personally, i hate the thought of any football club going out of business as it's such a shame for all who love the game of football. I remember a couple of years ago sitting in a dingy little bar in India talking to a Man City fan , and he was gutted that his club were now mega rich, as for him it signaled the end of the football club that he grew up loving. Similarly, two years ago in the Philippines i was chatting to a few Chelsea fans in a pub and they were of the same opinion, with a couple of them actually saying that they wanted the money gone and Chelsea back in the middle of the table , but with "their Chelsea" back. Incidentally, these Chelsea guys loved Rangers, and they were regular visitors to Ibrox and Annie Millers. Okay, sorry, i seem to have gone of tangent a little here, but all that i want is for us to have a club to still be playing on the hallowed turf of Ibrox, whether that is a newco or not, it is still going to be Rangers football club and no amount of new PLCS will ever change that fact, something that people lose sight of from time to time.
Right, let's see what today brings,but i am very optimistic that come close of play today we are all going to be in a much more knowledgeable position, and hopefully the conjecture can stop. But for Christ's sake we need to stop the bitter in house name calling and abuse to fellow bears. We have all been hurting throughout this process but we need to stick together, as abusing each other accomplishes absolutely nothing. To paraphrase the great man himself, all we have to offer is "blood, tears, toil and sweat" to save the greatest club in the world.
WATP
You lost me when admitting you go for a piss before logging in to RM in the morning
get your priorities right -
Think about the dark days since February 14th - revelations about just how badly Whyte shafted the club, beyond any bear's worst fears.
False hope drip-fed from supposedly rich businessmen - Murray, who had been a director previously - and all the other vultures feigning loyal support from England, Germany, the USA & Singapore. All of this orchestrated by Duff & Phelps, egging on every exageration.
The only sources of hope were from the support - full house at the Kilmarnock match, you tube video of guy singing 'we don't do walkin away', black 'n red scarves, rosettes and most of all the fighting fund.
All the while these posers jostle for airtime, teasing and massaging their own egos. Torture for true fans. Forums descending into abusive arguments about which group of carpet baggers would emerge triumphant, in the false hope of a saviour emerging.
The only way for the club to survive is for the fans to walk away from the business men and rely on themselves. Recover the lost dignity into the bargain. Here's how it could work:
A holding company formed and unlimited shares sold in £100 units. Sole purpose as a vehicle to take over the club. Unlike the RFFF it's not a donation, but investment. The more money you put in, the greater your shareholding.
Possible scenarios:
Selling 250k shares raises £25m - much more than Bill Miller etc were willing to put up for a CVA. Think about it - this amounts to 50k fans putting up £500 - pretty much on a par with a season ticket. This to stop the club going bust - a no brainer.
Selling 1m shares would raise £100m - enough to more than cover the debt and emerge from this dark period stronger and with dignity. Importantly under fan ownership - never again to be the ego trip of an SDM, the victim of a CW or the investment opportunity for the rest. This isn't impossible - there are easily 1m bears, all of whom could easy afford £100. Shit even a fortnight giro is more than that!
All that's required is for RM, FF, VB, RST etc to put all differences aside and club in for what is a last chance to save the club and prosper in the future. Minimal organisation needed, a trusted solicitor and accountant to coordinate it for a small % fee.
Who can prove it couldn't happen
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While the site was down I had to visit the FF site.
RM is my preffered daily read but with recent circumstances I obviously had to get my news/rumours from somewhere, so I went over to FF, it's a bit like going to a downmarket newspaper.
But why do some dislike it so much? we are all Bears afterall
Not all - a lot of timposters on FF
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Not the best timing surely?
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Does the day of the week end in a "y"
Sundae today
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Theres a lot of good ideas on the go but these need to be well organised and advertised on all the forums to maximise how much is raised. Anyone in the know get a link and Paypal on the go for this?
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heres a good point i think celtic, hearts hibs dundee utd kilmarnock , st johnstone , st mirren , inverness ct , motherwell, aberdeen ross county n dundee or dunfermline . what an exciting prospect what a pile of shite how boring is that gonna be , sky n espn are gonna pay for that my Minging ring
The Highland derby will add a bit of interest, could be more bitter than the Old Firm
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Fair play to McConville, he has done some good digging on this one.
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Could be an idea for all fans to get their strip from this season signed and put it on ebay to raise funds for the ff. This would surely raise a fortune.
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The fact they were outside and playing football and not inside on the Xbox is good enough for me.
I kinda agree with a lot of the comments that it can be positive for kids to wear english/european strips when younger to avoid getting caught up in the old firm pish too early. Let them love football before loving to hate Celtic/Rangers.
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Dunfermline will still go down, two teams from the 1st Division will come up if we leave the SPL.
In that event the twice in Administration Dundee would take the extra place in the SPL, how's that for sporting integrity
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the away game boycott would sink killie
never liked them anyway. especially now they have that taig twat as a manager
Surely you're taking the piss with that last remark
I understood he is a good Ulsterman. -
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Well backed into 3/1, £250 down to chase yesterday's losses
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Not saying I agree or disagree but I've read more ridiculous theories than this on here over the last few weeks.
Hard to know what's true or false, good or bad in these times sadly. Last year the scrutiny of Whyte was so bad everyone just took him as a billionaire saviour and despite pretty obvious signs of trouble it was still taboo to doubt him - even immediately after administration. At least these questions are being asked and allegiance to the club isn't being taken for granted like Whyte - heck we've had bidders claiming to be bears from England, Singapore and America!
rep for that
get your priorities right 
Where will things be in 2 years?
in Jimmy Bell's Kitroom
Posted
A lot of speculation about how things might work out and a fair amount of uncertainty. Where do you think everyone will be on 01/06/14?