Bluedell
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Posts posted by Bluedell
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I found it strange that Frankie was for banning him yet no other mod/admin seemed to feel the same. I know he was previously banned from Gersnet.
and I believe he's been banned from FF at least 3 times.
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He wont change his style though and will be gone straight away
He was able to stay for quite a while as Spangles despite being previously banned as Cockny Rebel and 2bob.
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Interestingly ... Responsibility statement
The directors of The Rangers FC Group, whose names appear on page 3, accept responsibility for all
information contained in this document except for the information set out in Part III. To the best of the
knowledge and belief of the directors of The Rangers FC Group (who have taken all reasonable care
to ensure that such is the case), the information contained in this document for which they accept
responsibility is in accordance with the facts and does not omit anything likely to affect the import of
such information.
Why would that be ?
A typo
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How can it not affect profit when debt is being paid, huge sums, going out of the club, being taken away from funds which should otherwise be going to the club, i dont see how that doesnt affect profit.
Simplistically let's say that we have turnover of £50m and costs of £40m. We make a profit of £10m. That £10m may then go and get used to clear some of the overdraft from the bank and therefore don't still have the £10m but we still made a profit of £10m. Just because oour overdraft is lower by £10m at the end of the year doesn't mean that we wil make £20m profit in the following year.
Huge costs have been cut since 2009, have they not? Surely we are not still operating with running costs of £51m per year?
That is unsustainable and a very dangerous game to play surely.Yes, our costs have fallen but not to the extent that we can break even without Europe.
Whyte has taken on something that could potentially cost a lot of money. It's possible that we don't make the CL in any of the next 5 years, either becuase we get knocked out in the qualiftying rounds or we don't win the league and we could see losses of £5m+ pa. That needs to be funded/supported, in addition to the transfer funds of £5m that we have been promised.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about how this is all going to be financed, particularly if the worst case scenario occurs.
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Yes but did that not include huge repayments towards our debt though? Someone else posted figures showing there was just approx. £3m difference between our turnover and no Euro money and that was while our squad was bigger and costs were higher. There is not a chance in hell we are working to a £14m loss every year we dont get European money, i find that impossible to believe.
Debt repayments don't affect profit.
Our turnover in 2009 with no Europe was £39m (£12m loss after including £6m profit on player sales), which rose to £56m in 2010 when we did have Europe (£4m profit).
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Why would he promise us £5m a year then not knowing if we would have Euro football or not. We could fail to qualify for C.L. or E.L. for the next 5 years and get no European money, but Whyte has already stated McCoist will get at least £5m per year to spend. Surely Mr Whyte is not making the same mistake Murray made time after time, making budgets accounting for money which is not guaranteed?
Good questions. The answers have still to be fully explained, but hopefully it will become clearer with the shareholder document next week.
Are we making a loss without it though? Surely our costs have been cut to a degree where we must be breaking even without Euro money. It not healthy to run a club with costs we cannot sustain, budgeting for money we may or may not get?
We got around £17m from Europe last season and only made a profit of £4m. We are a long way away from breaking even without Europe.
Possibly part of the reason why we were sold for only £1.
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Lets hope so, his budget is set for now at £5m per year and i am assuming as that is a set budget that it is for participation and non participation in Europe. Our budgets will be worked out without guaranteed European money hopefully, as it alwasy should, meaning any money we do make from European football will be a bonus and reinvested in our team to make us even better.
I don't see how a budget can be produced showing us breaking even with no european football and spending £5m each year.
we are going to be loss making without CL football and much of the CL cash will go towards meeting that loss and paying for the £5m transfer budget, so I can't see how there will be much left to enhance the transfer budget.
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KP think ive found it its on Brromloan Rd turn left at the roundabout just past Ibrox- whats it like getting across that dual carriageway - cant see any pelican crossings lol and have my son with me so don't want to take our lives in our hands - also anyone know what time to get there to be sure of getting a space?
If you're there 30 minutes before kick off you should still be able to pay, but after that, it's generally permit holders only.
You'll be Ok crossing Broomloan Road. It's no problem. Loads of people will be doing it as well.
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Nup, still don't think it's our business. Whyte has earned the right to run us in a way he sees fit as he's the one who's bought the club.
When the fans buy the club, then it's our business.
I'm just glad our new owner is a Gers fan from Motherwell rather than a random foreign investor who you can guarantee doesn't give two shits about the club.
So you didn't complain about the way Murray ran the club? You didn't complain about us not being able to buy anyone? Aye right.
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Enquire yes, demand no. I think he's been pretty clear about most things. It's the detail that some people want him to go into that bugs me.
I think that he's been unclear about most things so far. Hopefully the shareholder document will clarify most of it.
We've had years of Murray saying that he put £100m into the club, so it's only natural that we now want to examine the detal of everything as it's been shown that we can't take things at face value. Hopefully Whyte will be shown to be different.
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I don't think it is really any of our business how Whyte conducts his affairs.
A lot of people are being very critical, unnecessarily so. Why should Whyte tell us the hums and haws of his every move.
It's not like any other club owner does. Imagine the hearts fans trying to get Romanov to disclose all the stuff you guys are asking for
So it was none of our business when Murray run up £70m+ of debt? It was none of our business when the club were not able to buy anyone for a 18 month period?
Sorry, but I disagree. The finances of Rangers are very much our business.
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We know that the ownership of Rangers FC. lies ultimately with Liberty an offshore company, but who is the beneficial owner of The Rangers FC Group Ltd.
The answer is in Boss's post 119.
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And still he didn't resign. So was removed.
I thought that a director could only be "removed" at a general meeting?
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AJ stated that he was resigning.
Then he didn't.
my understanding is that he didn't resign on 16th as suitability checks were still being done on Whyte and agreed to delay his formal resignation until they were complete.
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As for the approx £4m in the accounts (Note 10) I have no idea as to what this sum relates. Certainly a question for the next AGM.
It's the Albion Car Park, as I explained in post 65.
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My Dad says no matter what is on the docs, Rangers own a lease nothing more, also he has set me a new puzzle. Work out the relationship between Jordan Nominees, Wavetower and the directors of Wavetower, seems we will be in no doubt of the course we are heading once that is solved.
There will be no current relationship between Jordan Nominees and Wavetower. Jordan Nominees would just be the company that owned the shell when Ellis "bought" it. There would be no on-going relationship.
Your dad seems a knowledgeable chap. Does he work at KDS accountancy and general takeover experts plc?
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Ive spotted it in the Fixed Assets, which backs up that it is "owned" by Rangers however the lease in creditors does not add up to the dates you have given Bluedell.
The Land registry shows we took "ownership" in 2005 with a charge to PPG, however our lease creditors has been at circa £4m to £5m since at least 1999. Surely if we took this on at a later date and "financed" it then we would see a sharp increase in one of the years accounts.
Both the leasehold property and the lease have been in the accounts since 1995.
Perhaps the arrangement changed in 2005, with us leasing from PPG rather than the third party? I guess that there must have been some change at that stage but the land registry may have also shown us as owning it prior to that?
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Would that be in the accounts as a lease creditor, per chance?
Of course.
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If we are only leasing it then how are we listed as the owners on the land registry Bluedell. Also, the listed security is shown as Premier Property Group as opposed to a finance house. The still unexplained part though is where there is any evidence of this in the accounts. It is 99% certainly not shown as a lease creditor as the values did not increase at any stage in the last 12 years minimum.
I'm not an expert when it compes to land registry but presume it's as Gunslinger suggests. As it's a long term lease, we are looked upon as being the owners?
It's in the accounts. You will see both the long term lease in creditors and the fixed asset note shows the long leasehold property.
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Great research, boys.
Is the third party MIH-related or is it a finance house?
Finance house.
However this could have all changed at the time of the takeover, and I don't know what the current status is.
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So do you know where the £4m comes into things Bluedell. How it ended at Lloyds door and where it is/was in the accounts.
Cheers
The Albion was sold by the club to a Murray company in 1990 for £2m. In 1995 the Murray company leased it to a third party for 125 years. The third party then sub-leased it to Rangers for 125 years for the value of £4m, which was payable over 34 years, with a secondary period of 91 years.
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Tell your "dad" that you have seen the Land registry online and it clearly shows that the proprietor of the Albion Car Park is:
The Rangers Football Club plc as at 22nd June 2010
And they have been the legal owner since 31/3/2005 as confirmed on the title deed
You are both correct. Rangers are the owners and but on a long lease basis. They didn't own the freehold although that may have changed as part of the takeover.
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As you can carry on saying they do when they do not. Wavetower was a wholly owned subsidary of liberty capital despite being formed by ellis, who now have an unreachable website, allegedly under reconstruction along with other things, that may involve rent books.
If you wish to continue insisting wavetower own Rangers, carry on it's a free choice.
The Circular
in Jimmy Bell's Kitroom
Posted
The company hasn't been wound up.
What would we do with the information if we had it? Do we really need it?
It was always thought that the debt still existed given MIH's comments at the time of the takeover. We would only be liable for it if the tax case goes against us. What is actually wrong about the way he has structured the deal? Are you suggesting that we would be better off if he had structured it in another way?
a. It's already been clarified that he paid in cash. A receipt?
Yes there would be legal documents to state that he has paid the cash and now owns the shares.
b. The debt is sitting with TRFCG. It's not waiting to be paid by us unless the tax case goes against us.
c. No he hasn't. Nothing like the Leeds case.
d. TRFCG is liable for the repayment of the cash and interest.
e. So that fact that the loan will be written off if we win the tax case isn't a thing of substance?
It is negative and I would be surprised