Al Jolson
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Posts posted by Al Jolson
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“I offered them a deal which, if they’d accepted, would have seen them been paid in full.”
That's clearly a lie. Why would they turn such an offer down?
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When Darlington went into administration in 2009 – the second of three times the club has now done so – they owed HMRC tax arrears of more than four hundred thousand pounds.
As part of the deal that led to them coming out of administration, unsecured creditors, including the tax man, received 0.0009 per cent of what was owed to them. In Darlington’s case on this occasion, they owed tax of £404,376 in tax – and paid £3.64.
This is just one of the extraordinary facts revealed in an official HMRC document about the financial knock-on effects of English clubs that go bust and leave huge debts behind.
Sportingintelligence has obtained a leaked copy of the 106-page document (extract left, click to enlarge it), which was prepared by HMRC for its ongoing legal battle against the Football League and Premier League to have the ‘Football Creditors Rule’ scrapped.
This rule allows bust clubs in England to guarantee some creditors (“football creditors” such as players and other clubs) t0 be paid in full while other creditors get just a few pence in the pound, or nothing.
Between 2000 and 2010, there were 53 incidents of clubs in England entering administration and the HMRC document includes official breakdowns of what clubs owed in 21 of those cases.
As our graphic below shows, 15 clubs owed a total of £40.26m to the taxman – and more than £39.5m has never been paid or remains unaccounted for in those cases alone.
Darlington’s £3.64 repayment in 2009 came after they’d previously committed to paying only £1,596 of a prior £215,631 tax bill in 2003.
The biggest tax debtor on the list is Portsmouth, from their last administration (not the current one), when £17.3m was owed. Informed sources say that although Pompey agreed to pay 20 per cent of that back over time, not a penny has actually been paid.
Portsmouth’s current liquidator, Geoff Carton-Kelly of Baker Tilly, was Portsmouth’s administrator last time around. He said: “Under the terms of the CVA (the first time) Portsmouth were due to pay 20p in the pound over five years. The first payment was due this coming Monday (1 April) but that won’t be happening as the club is in administration again”.
Leeds United, meanwhile, agreed to just pay two per cent of a £7.7m tax bill in 2007, shedding more than £7.5m tax liabilities in the process.
It was in 2002 that HMRC lost its ‘Preferential Creditor Status’, meaning it became an outside party alongside the likes of small local traders and the St Johns Ambulance service – all of which are often paid next to nothing.
The full loss to the taxpayer will be much higher than £39m when all 53 cases are considered, not to mention non-English cases; infamously Rangers are awaiting the outcome of their ‘big tax case’ in which HMRC is claiming tens of millions.
Sources north of the border expect some form of compromise on repayment of that, as and when a ruling is made on precisely what Rangers owe.
There were 53 incidents of clubs entering administration from 2000 until November 2011, and already this year Portsmouth, Port Vale and Darlington have entered administration, as have Rangers.
Football finance expert Professor John Beech, from Coventry University, said: “The return to the offensive against football clubs mounted by HMRC since 2009 is hardly surprising and neither is their fight to see the Football Creditors Rule overthrown.
“Seeing the taxman as a soft touch for what is in effect an easy overdraft is neither good business practice nor fair to other taxpayers.
“Failure to hand over VAT promptly strikes me as particularly indefensible. After all, the money has been collected on HMRC’s behalf”.
HMRC are currently waiting for the High Court verdict on the Football Creditor’s Rule after opening a case against the Football League last November. A decision is expected over the next few weeks.
Speaking at the case last year, HMRC’s Gregory Mitchell QC, said: “Whenever the football creditor rule is applied, there is always a loss to the taxpayer, which is why we bring these proceedings”. He added that the football creditors’ rule represented “the ugly side of the beautiful game”.
The Football League has argued that unlike Premiership football players who are paid millions, the football creditor’s rule was set in place to protect players’ earnings in the lower leagues.
However Professor Beech adds: “The defence of the Football Creditors Rule that is habitually trotted out – that the integrity of the league must be maintained – is unreasonable in my opinion.
“I don’t see how the existence of the rule can be justified as a means for buying and selling players on credit when the buying club is well known to be on shaky financial grounds, and the selling club can, in effect, expect the public purse to act a guarantor for payment.
“The rule is shameful, and reflects extremely badly on the whole football club business sector. In my view it’s counter-productive as it’s one of a number of factors that have contributed to the spiraling cost of transfer fees, which is hardly helpful to clubs”.
More cracking stuff that adds weight to Rangers argument. Too much stuff like this, the OP and the FACT that we're owed more by other clubs than we owe them get lost on here in amongst all the petty threads.
It's also always conveniently overlooked by the media.
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Light hearted you may call it but the likes of Rfc52 regularly wreck threads by trying to enforce their opinion on people by sheer weight of numbers and bullying tactics. They fuck up thread after thread with their stupid posts. He even posted his seat number in some kind of primary two "I'll meet you at the school gates for a fight" challenge. Totally unmoderated, unchallenged and allowed to post his illiterate ill thought out comments freely.
This could be a cracking forum if decent debate was encouraged and wreckers like him were put in their place by proper moderation.
Cue a verbal attack by.....
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Cracking first post mate. Just expect the usual clique to gallop along at break neck speed to belittle you, your post, and to prove that you must be a Tim.
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So you lost it right away aye?
Fuck Mcdonalds, i work in poundstretchers.
Poor, poor comeback.
I'll leave this debate now, because I clearly own you (you're my bitch) and, hopefully, it can get back on topic.
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Thats right i'll be in a fenian hell hole in a caravan
Told you BF1 row B end of the row, you can enjoy trying to rip the pish but your an arsehole in all honesty. I know of 6 guys in my work who are ST holders who are away on holiday (just to make it easier for you)
Are 6 people allowed off in McDonalds at the same time?
Calm yersel doon. FFS.
And personal insults always prove you've lost the place.
And proves the serious lack of moderation on this forum.
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Yip got both but i will be at the game the morra.
Dont have a problem with those who wont. Your quite the hardman on the old tinternet i see with yer fan dan and
remarks. Told yae BF1 row B end seat 
Non season ticket holder then? Pauper.
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Right your being fucking stupid now. Your saying if it was away it would sell out? Of course it fucking would our away allocations sell out nearly all the time.
You've clearly copyrighted stupidity so it would be foolish of me to infringe that.
I thought I said it wouldn't matter where the game was. But we'll leave it for others to read the thread, and see clearly, without being in a fit of anger, what was written by whom. Enjoy the game tomorrow. If your not away to Craill, with the family, in a caravan, like the thousands of ST holders you know.
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Good for you. So you suggest people shouldnt spend time with there kids etc?
Ps al be the Fandan in Bf1 row b tommorow if yer about?
No family then?
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The last leauge decider at Ibrox was 2003, even Dundee utd last season never sold out, neither did Hearts on the Saturday. Why dont you stick to facts instead of abusing people ffs.
Eh? WTF you on about? It wouldn't matter WHERE the league decider was it'd be a sell out! You seriously trying to dispute that?
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We have practically sold every seat for every home game since Feb 14th. What a fucking response that has been. people may now be feeling the pinch but as i say Easter fortnight is one of the busiest times for folk fucking off abroad for a wee holiday. Could you blame people for tommorow not selling out? Seriously?
Yes.
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There are bears who will go away for the day ie people who can not bare to see taigs having parties etc. Is that hard to understand?
i will also make this easy for you. It is the easter holidays, yes? The trades have now a 7-10 day holiday period, so tradesmen i know who are Rangers fans have decided to go a family holiday for the week. That has fuck all to do with bheasts winning titles etc, its a time they can spend with their kids etc.
Fucking fandan great patter
Fair do's. Instead of going to the game tomorrow, I've decided, upon consideration of your pertinent points, not to lend my support to our financially stricken and in perilous danger of going into liquidation football club, but, instead, spend some quality time with my family rolling eggs down the nearest hillside in order to remember the relevance of this weekend.
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So because some fans are poor and/or work on Saturdays they aren't real fans then?
You're a right smart one.
Theyre not poor and work on Saturdays at league deciders though, ae? Funny that.
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Got It in one pot noodle boy. I've got the red and black scarf, bought the union jacks and will be waving my red card in the 18th and 72nd minute. As they say in Asda, every little helps!
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Na fuck that shite.
Continue with the petty digs towards our fans all you want but there has been an amazing response in the last 2 months. Its the Easter weekend, shitloads of folk are away on Holiday, many will go away for the day to avoid the bheasts who will no doubt wrap the title up. I know alot of folks who are ST holders that are away on holiday for tommorow so they wont be in attendance.
I hear theres a massive gold fish funeral aswell tommorow
Lol. What a lot of shite. Why would you go away to avoid the bheasts instead of offering your support to your own team ya fucking fandan????
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:sleep1: Any chance of an intelligent response from you? On any thread. Ever.
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Absolutely disgusting that there is one ticket left for tomorrow.
For all of you that;
Can't make it,
Don't have the money,
Are attending your gold fishes funeral,
Hang your heads in shame.
OUR club (not David Murray's, Craig Whytes or any other egotistical money making shysters club) is on it's knees and needs every last penny, and every last ounce of support, we can muster.
Hypothetical question; we're neck and neck with the bheasts on points, and tomorrow is the last game of the season. How many, in that situation;
Can't make it,
Don't have the money,
Are attending your gold fishes funeral.
You'd be there in your fucking hordes and there'd be thousands on here, and elsewhere, begging for tickets and gladly willing to pay top dollar.
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They done it with us last May tbh.
Killie are a good team regardless and it will be a pressure game. We know that Celtic and pressure don't go
No they didn't.
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McCoist out. PLEASE
The jolly question of sport japester has no credentials to manage Rangers.
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I wish I was you.
Cheers mate. I understand why you would feel that way. I'm a cool guy.
If I wasn't me, I'd sure as hell want to be me.
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Your an Uber Fan i have just been a supporter for 50 years now go away.
So? Whys that relevant?
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Your an Uber Fan i have just been a supporter for 50 years now go away.
Eh? Because you've been a supporter for 50 years is relevant, how? Unless you've attended every game in that time. Which you, and I, know you haven't.
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Your logic is a bit strange if you didnt have any money how could you attend or if your work required you to work on Sundays for some reason what would you do. Please dont preach about the club requiring our support i think we all know that.
Yes. 35,000 had no money today and they were all working. However, come March, for the next OF game, none of these Sunday workers will be working. Oh, I forgot, it's "free".
THE HOME SUPPORT IS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE!!!
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Anyone who feels the need to compare how much better/worse a fan they are than anyone else is obviously a bit insecure.
So, why weren't YOU there today and why do you feel the need to belittle those who were?
remarks. Told yae BF1 row B end seat 
:sleep1:
NewCo Does Not Mean History Lost
in Jimmy Bell's Kitroom
Posted
Craig Whyte has done PLENTY wrong. He has been proven in a Court of Law to be a liar, and as far as we as a Club go, he has most certainly not done "everything he said he would do".