trueblue72

I support both - it doesn't have to be any sort of either/or choice. See Rangers more often, but Scotland getting into a major international tournament again would be pretty special. Remember it was the UK's HMRC who really put the boot into our club, not the SFA. They could have came to a long term repayment deal, instead of forcing us into administration. Everything else stemmed from that.

10 in a row FFS. Such negativity.. It's a 2 horse race again when we are back again.. We have over twice the stadium size over anyone else, a huge advantage. Sure they will have a head start, cash wise, but chances are it will come down to a handful of games between them and us. And with the atmosphere at times like that, then anything goes..

It all comes down to HMRC choosing to make an example of us. But there was always a chance that could happen, and Murray took that risk. Most likely he figured that the EBT loan scheme would be simply closed down at some point, like most other tax loopholes. But we ended up in a situation, where HMRC weren't going to do us any favours by making an early decision - they effectively drove us into liquidation by refusing to settle. Legally we might now have won, but was it a risk worth taking?... we ended up paying the price, one way or another..

Getting involved heavily with a tax avoidance scheme was total recklessness. Making payments with tax free 'loans' that don't have to be paid back..? it doesn't take much common sense to realize it would come back and bite us in the arse at some point in the future. Happy that we won the case, but to be honest..who really expected it...? Craig Whyte certainly didn't - that's why he didn't bother to pay any more tax. Murray should never have got us into this situation in the first place.

What is the honour in paying back the remaining tax, when HMRC drove us into liquidation in the first place, and refused to bargain? Fuck them - They cost us millions that could have gone towards paying up the old debts. Everyone lost because of Murray's recklessness with a dodgy tax avoidance scheme, and HMRC's refusal to make a reasonable deal at the time.

The guys a chancer. Don't know what he was thinking about not paying the PAYE. Apart from just gambling that HMRC wouldn't dare to pull the plug on us. Maybe they would have came to some sort of long term deal for the back tax, but the PAYE was the final straw.

Who knows for sure, but I get the general impression there is just not enough appetite to go through with a court battle regarding past titles. Outwith the scum, there seems to be a general feeling among other supporters that we have been punished enough. It honestly feels like the worst is behind us now, and we can finally start the road to recovery.

This. Who knows what is true , but its better to have the familiar face of Ally negotiating. He has a personal likeability about him which could possibly sway decisions our way. Personally I think any stripping of titles is a step too far, and don't honestly think the SFA would seriously be looking at that. Not if they want to have a chance of winning back any sort of goodwill in the future. Pragmatism works both ways.

It's about our honour mainly as a club. Not just about the legal situation. The tax debts and ticketus are obviously too big to do anything about. But the football debts and those to some of the smaller creditors are manageable, especially if spread out over a few years. I think it is the right thing to do, even to some of the clubs who plainly don't deserve it. One day we will be back at the top, and I would rather our history showed that we paid off whatever debts we could - even if we didn't have to, even if it hurt us .. Because we are better than that.

I cancelled it before, then ended up missing it too much. Ended up resubscribing to watch Andy Murray, and the golf. Tried watching the streams online at sports lemon, but got fed up with the shitty picture quality and the lag.

Sad to hear. Stuff like this really does put things in proportion. Condolences to Claudio and his family.

fucks sake, Salmond defended us at first, saying Celtic need rangers, and took pelters for it. The tims were raging. And rangers has fans from all walks of life, including plenty who vote SNP. And this jacobite pish - get a grip. Its 2012 and religion is dying. Remember, the opposite of independence is DEPENDENCE.

lol. your biggest customer already is your biggest competitor . Except he has your wallet.

Better not mention Norway - they are twice as wealthy as us.

I don't hand over my pay packet to my neighbour every week and ask him to spend my money for me. Independence is about having more power to make your own decisions. Personally I think that's a good thing.

Britain is an island with 3 countries in it. Last time I looked there was a big chunk of water between us and Ireland. We would still have the union of the crowns, and all the same friends and relatives down south. And free trade under Europe. Its the political union within Britain that lets Scotland down. All those going on that we don't have the industry to support ourselves. Well if you believe that, it is the union that got us into that situation..

From what I understood, the loss of titles would have been a possible punishment, if we had been voted into Div 1. But that didn't happen, so there is no need for it to be as severe now, apart from pure vindictiveness. We have already lost at least 3 future possible titles - is that not punishment enough, fucks sake.

We will still be British after independence anyway. Britain is an island and we will still have the union of the crowns. It's the unequal political set-up of UK that is a problem, not friends and family within these islands. If we got a better deal within the UK, where we paid a contribution for defense and foreign embassies, then maybe a lot of people would accept that. But that's not on the table. Nothing anti-English about it. In fact we will probably get on far better if we gain independence. I think the 'anyone-but-England' attitude at sports, will change into one of friendly neighbours. Because we will see ourselves more as equals, rather than have to endure all this subsidy junkie nonsense.

Sorry, that's Bullshit. Governments can lay the groundwork to enable businesses to thrive in all sorts of ways. Transport and infrastructure, security, tax breaks, control over key industries etc It helps if a country is rich in natural resources in the first place. And doesn't give its revenues away like Scotland does, just to get 9% back. Did the Norwegian Government create wealth by creating Statoil , or investing their energy revenues in their huge pension fund? They now own around 2% of all stocks and shares in Europe and America. Which will be providing BILLIONS in wealth for future generations long after the oil runs out. Is that not a case of a government creating MASSIVE wealth? It's just depressing to see some of the attitude here.. That London and the south gets all the money and power.. and we should just emigrate to get a good job.. And just accept it because we are too poor and useless and need to be subsidised etc.. What a crock of shite, when we could be a small rich country if we wanted. Anyway, this should maybe be in the politics forum, not the bears den. It wasn't Alec Salmond who fucked our club at the end of the day. It was HMRC who forced administration and started this chain reaction

You're right, our 50 MPs in London don't do a good job of representing Scotland as a whole. They have little influence even if they wanted to. All they seem to care about is their own party and career, not what is good for this country. I remember the labour MP last month getting all flustered on some debate show. Wouldn't give a straight answer when asked if she would prefer Scotland being governed by the Tories in London, or having a real Scottish labour government in an independent Scotland.

The UK isn't going to be using any veto without the say-so of the USA. And the security council isn't the only decision making body in the world. We would still be in Europe, much of whose laws override the UK. And it looks like we will be staying in NATO going by what the papers say. So I don't see whats so great about basking in the past glory of the UK. Pretending we are still a big international world power. What good does it do us, when we aren't seeing any practical benefits here ?? When half of Glasgow lives in poverty in an oil rich country, and all the power and wealth and good jobs are sucked down to the South ?? I would rather have a smaller, more prosperous country within Britain and Europe, with a real government that has some real powers to boost our economy right here. Not this pocket money parliament we have at the moment.

Agreed, There is always the chance of a total humping when we are at our weakest. Can just imagine the special DVDs and all the rest of it. Fuck that. We will be back and at them in our own sweet time.

Get a grip. There are plenty of Scottish rangers fans voting SNP. Govan currently voted in Nicola Sturgeon, and Jim Sillars was an MP in the past. There is no conflict at all. We are a proud Scottish and British club, and having political control of our country won't change that.

You're kidding yourself if you think the UK calls the shots anymore. We just kiss America's ass and do whatever they want, including getting dragged into their illegal wars. Pretending we have a 'special relationship'.. Israel has far more influence on the US than we do, and Obama apparently dislikes Britain because of our colonial history in Kenya - he sent back a statue of Churchill that was in the White house. And I do think a Scottish Government would represent us better. Because their loyalty is to this country first and we would get the government we vote for. 50 MPs out of 600 in London is an insignificance.