If the court throws out the transfer embargo can Uefa reimpose it

[jerfeelgood 0]

They were not party to the original dispute which was between FIFA and Sion. Because FIFA had won at the CAS, the Swiss FA would not register the players. Sion went to the Civil Court of Martigny and St. Maurice which ordered FIFA, the FIFA subsidiary Transfer Matching System GmbH, and the Swiss Football League to allow six FC Sion players to play with immediate effect.

I don't like the concept of 'losing control'. In a democratic society, individuals and companies have a right to redress before the courts. If 'losing control' means depriving them of this right then that 'control' is abusive.

Once the court had found in favour of Sion, what was FIFA and the Swiss FA to do? If you try to sanction someone for winning an court order against you then you are in a rather sticky legal position. What FIFA decided to do was to make it the Swiss FA's problem which, essentially, it was not. The Swiss FA declined to take action until after the appellate court, the Tribunal Cantonal Valais, overturned the lower court rulings. Indeed, and probably due to other legal action in the Canton of Vaud and before the CAS, the Swiss FA did not take action until the end of December.

cool... all knowledge i didn't have before....

so the situation then becomes. If i voluntarily join a club, or association, or sign up for a competition am I not bound by the rules of that club/association/competition? I can't make the argument that I didn't know... presumably sion had made their application in march for a uefa license for the following year thence signing up to the rules of the competition... on the basis of their season finish they were invited to play in european competition... they broke the rules of the competition... thence the problem... okay leaving FIFA in a sticky legal situation re legal sense....

now here's the crux... FIFA are not compelled to invite switzerland to international competitions, as UEFA are not compelled to invite clubs to european competitions... this is where they have the power. they control the competition and entries to that competition...

so no they could not stop sion playing it's players, but they can withdraw all invitations to future competitions... they can expel competitors who aren't observing the rules. they are within their rights to do this. you are within your rights to take them to court if you feel that the rules of the competition are unjust... or are am i wrong?

i'm not saying it's perfect but c'est la vie...

[jerfeelgood 0]

Good post HHB

Going back to the "must have known" argument you just need to look at events like the Banstead £250k and the Arsenal shares

These issues didn't become public knowledge until weeks after they had occurred

This infers that the circle of knowledge within Ibrox was very very small because those events, in particular the Arsenal shares, were things which should have leaked to the fans immediately and I would have thought there would have been no shortage of staff/directors with an axe to grind with Whyte who would have been willing to leak them.

They "must have known"

Or maybe not

I agree with everything you're saying... but then that implies that the corporate governance structure of rangers is quite loose. If a brand new chairman can walk in the door and start liberating assets (cash/aresenal shares) without raising an uproar within the corporation itself.... or does he have a chequebook in his desk? i thought company accounting practices had to be more transparent than that? In fact my experience with committees has always been dual signatories to prevent these exact problems arising....

edit: do you ever feel he got away with certain things because he was still in his honeymoon period?

[HHB 63]

I agree with everything you're saying... but then that implies that the corporate governance structure of rangers is quite loose. If a brand new chairman can walk in the door and start liberating assets (cash/aresenal shares) without raising an uproar within the corporation itself.... or does he have a chequebook in his desk? i thought company accounting practices had to be more transparent than that? In fact my experience with committees has always been dual signatories to prevent these exact problems arising....

edit: do you ever feel he got away with certain things because he was still in his honeymoon period?

There are a couple of problems with your comments.

First, Rangers are not a big company. They are a small company with a big name (for me 'big' is at least £500 million turnover). So the corporate procedures are not going to be as rigorous as you find in larger businesses if only because there are fewer staff to implement proper segregation of duties, p[roper controls, etc.

Second, Rangers are owned by one person and that person can pretty much override any controls that are in place. A single owner is noit going to concede dual signatures. You see that in larger companies too (think News International or Dryships).

Third, where there is oversight from Directors or auditors, that oversight is not on a day to day basis. It is almost always after the fact and that, in the case of Rangers, was too late. Accounting practices are supposed to follow certain rules and that is why you have auditors. But the auditors probably only come in twice a year; at interim and final. A company needs to have turnover in the billions to justify a more constant presence.

[HHB 63]

cool... all knowledge i didn't have before....

so the situation then becomes. If i voluntarily join a club, or association, or sign up for a competition am I not bound by the rules of that club/association/competition? I can't make the argument that I didn't know... presumably sion had made their application in march for a uefa license for the following year thence signing up to the rules of the competition... on the basis of their season finish they were invited to play in european competition... they broke the rules of the competition... thence the problem... okay leaving FIFA in a sticky legal situation re legal sense....

now here's the crux... FIFA are not compelled to invite switzerland to international competitions, as UEFA are not compelled to invite clubs to european competitions... this is where they have the power. they control the competition and entries to that competition...

so no they could not stop sion playing it's players, but they can withdraw all invitations to future competitions... they can expel competitors who aren't observing the rules. they are within their rights to do this. you are within your rights to take them to court if you feel that the rules of the competition are unjust... or are am i wrong?

i'm not saying it's perfect but c'est la vie...

No, you are right.

But that is where the politics come in.

You cannot un-invite teams from the big countries because then your competition can go down the tubes.

You don't want to upset the small countries too much because they might just go off and start their own competition. They are already pissed off with UEFA for funneling all the cash to the big countries.

You don't don't want to attract the attention of the EU to restrictive transfer, employment or trade practices because all the big countries are part of the EU.

So, as a practical matter the power of UEFA has limitations. They could act with more impunity against Sion because they are the Inverness of Switzerland. They might have been more circumspect had it been one of the Zurich teams or Basel.

[marvinsmarvels 13]

Dont see how UEFA can go on about it going to the law courts asa precedent has been set, as i remember the current scotland manager taking the SFA to court over a dugout ban.

[jerfeelgood 0]

No, you are right.

But that is where the politics come in.

You cannot un-invite teams from the big countries because then your competition can go down the tubes.

You don't want to upset the small countries too much because they might just go off and start their own competition. They are already pissed off with UEFA for funneling all the cash to the big countries.

You don't don't want to attract the attention of the EU to restrictive transfer, employment or trade practices because all the big countries are part of the EU.

So, as a practical matter the power of UEFA has limitations. They could act with more impunity against Sion because they are the Inverness of Switzerland. They might have been more circumspect had it been one of the Zurich teams or Basel.

true

but as uefa are the only international football administrator will to organise international club football competitions at the moment, and have all the cash and sponsors and tv deals, and any alternative competition would take donkeys years to get going and established, in this economic climate I don't see anyone making any serious attempt to pish on their parade. any attempt to set up a competition outwith FIFA/UEFA would be seen as a bolivian/che guevar style revolution in soccer and anyone seen to be participating would be ostracised...

first you get the sugar.... then you get the money.... then you get the wiiiimen!!!!