Have you ever been in love and not been loved back?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

That's how I feel about Rangers right now.

Oh I know some of you think I'm an old bigot, and if you do, fuck you I don't care.

For years I have been complaining about the Scottish media's anti Rangers campaign, trying to pin the whole blame for sectarianism in this poxy wee country on RFC.

That's bad enough.

But when a former hero of mine, and the emphasis is on former joins in it's coming close to giving up time for me.

After all the progress the RST and the fans have made over the last year, it seems RFC would rather roll over and just accept it. 'It' being the portrayal of of RFC and Rangers fans as bigots and the source of the problem.

Here's the quote from Jardine:

'When I came here in 1964, we had no Catholics,' he said. 'Not just the playing staff, anywhere. There was no bit of paper, it was an unwritten rule. David Murray changed that and it moved on significantly in 1989 when Maurice Johnston signed. You cannot clear up 80 years of sectarianism in eight months, but we are a huge way down the road'.

So what's wrong with that you might ask?

1. What was so wrong with a Protestant Club, the leading Club in a protestant country having Protestant employees? Don't get me wrong, we have to move with the times, it wouldn't do now, but why are we immersed in guilt and self loathing over a legitimate expression of our identity?

2. The idiot doesn't even know that when murray gave up on buying Ayr United (boy they had vision) and found Ibrox on his A-Z, there was an RC on our playing staff, so what did he 'change'?

3. Maybe the historians could help me. What happened in 1927? What happened 8 months ago?

The Rangers I love is gone.

I am following a dream.

[J_RFC87 761]

I see your point Manticore, but what dream is that your following? A dream to return to past times?

In the modern age of PC-brigade driven anti-discrimination and anti-prejudice, we wouldn't get away with ot.

[bestiadegranada 0]

That's how I feel about Rangers right now.

Oh I know some of you think I'm an old bigot, and if you do, fuck you I don't care.

For years I have been complaining about the Scottish media's anti Rangers campaign, trying to pin the whole blame for sectarianism in this poxy wee country on RFC.

That's bad enough.

But when a former hero of mine, and the emphasis is on former joins in it's coming close to giving up time for me.

After all the progress the RST and the fans have made over the last year, it seems RFC would rather roll over and just accept it. 'It' being the portrayal of of RFC and Rangers fans as bigots and the source of the problem.

Here's the quote from Jardine:

'When I came here in 1964, we had no Catholics,' he said. 'Not just the playing staff, anywhere. There was no bit of paper, it was an unwritten rule. David Murray changed that and it moved on significantly in 1989 when Maurice Johnston signed. You cannot clear up 80 years of sectarianism in eight months, but we are a huge way down the road'.

So what's wrong with that you might ask?

1. What was so wrong with a Protestant Club, the leading Club in a protestant country having Protestant employees? Don't get me wrong, we have to move with the times, it wouldn't do now, but why are we immersed in guilt and self loathing over a legitimate expression of our identity?

2. The idiot doesn't even know that when murray gave up on buying Ayr United (boy they had vision) and found Ibrox on his A-Z, there was an RC on our playing staff, so what did he 'change'?

3. Maybe the historians could help me. What happened in 1927? What happened 8 months ago?

The Rangers I love is gone.

I am following a dream.

My tuppence worth (maybe an overestimate!):

1. I don't have the slightest feelings of guilt or revulsion over our signing policy, at least no more than "No Blacks, Dogs or Irish" signs in boarding house windows during the early part of the last century, or other examples of outmoded behaviour, but by present day standards it was arguably "wrong" to eschew employing Catholics for the most part (Kitchenbrand and Spencer, among others aside). Nothing wrong with being a Protestant club with a Protestant identity - while I don't consider it important myself, what is the difference between this and the regional identities of clubs such as Athletic Bilbao or Barca, or even in Seville where the two clubs have opposing class-based identities.

2. Jardine is a clown, up on his hind legs trying to get dog biscuits off his current employer.

3. Dunno. Catholic player and catholic manager joining up?

[minstral 5,375]

manticore what a fantastic post, a man not scared to speak the truth, i used to think sandy jardine was a rangers hero, not anymore he is just another of murrays yes men who will say anything as long as they are getting well paid.you know my father and my grand father had no money, but still gave everything they had to follow this club, and even when my father was dying in the hospice al he wanted to know was did we win 10 in a row, not the thought of dying he was more worrid about his beloved rangers and he will be totally depresed up in heaven when he sees what murray and company have done to our great club.they have ripped the heart out of the club, and its not the rangers that my father loved as im afraid that has gone.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I see your point Manticore, but what dream is that your following? A dream to return to past times?

In the modern age of PC-brigade driven anti-discrimination and anti-prejudice, we wouldn't get away with ot.

I did say we have to move with the times.

I'm not advocating returning to discriminatory practices.

I just think that our enemies want to strip us of everything that makes us special, everything that makes us 'more than a Club'.

From songs to chants to flags the vultures are circling.

And because of some discriminatory practices in the past, which arguably amounted to an unwritten signing policy for a while, maybe a few decades, the whole guilt of Scotland for sectarianism is pointed at RFC.

That's bad. It's made worse when the Club doesn't defend itself or us.

But when the Club joins the campaign, that hurts like hell.

[bestiadegranada 0]

I see your point Manticore, but what dream is that your following? A dream to return to past times?

In the modern age of PC-brigade driven anti-discrimination and anti-prejudice, we wouldn't get away with ot.

I did say we have to move with the times.

I'm not advocating returning to discriminatory practices.

I just think that our enemies want to strip us of everything that makes us special, everything that makes us 'more than a Club'.

From songs to chants to flags the vultures are circling.

And because of some discriminatory practices in the past, which arguably amounted to an unwritten signing policy for a while, maybe a few decades, the whole guilt of Scotland for sectarianism is pointed at RFC.

That's bad. It's made worse when the Club doesn't defend itself or us.

But when the Club joins the campaign, that hurts like hell.

Jardine is an eejit. What the club, failing that the RST has to do, is draw a line in the sand and say two things:

A) OK, bigotry is unacceptable, and we've shown that we believe through our work in the last few years. We don't accept the word "fenian", we don't accept FTP, we're working against bigotry so move along and harass the next poor buggers. What we won't accept is victimisation of our support while others getting away with murder (Spaniards and racism) or what we're accused of (cheer up Paul LeGuen, sad orange bastard). We need to stand up and say yes, bigotry is an issue, but it is not the only issue - we have never had a history of racism at RFC, yet there is still a lot of that in football. So let's stop pretending RFC is the only club with a problem!

B) Singing songs about NI, being a prod etc. IS NOT BIGOTRY (and I don't know how many times I will have to explain this to the softer-minded of my Celtic supporting chums). I thought there was an inkling of this a while back when Bain said something along these lines, but nothing has been heard since. I say this repeatedly, but if Bilbao can be a "basque club" and Real Betis can be a "working class club" then we can be a protestant club to those (and I don't count myself among them) to whom this is important.

[ExiledWeegie123 1,275]

cant any of you just support rangers because they are the best football team in scotland?

religion always comes into it,fuck religion,im protestant and dont give a monkeys about it,and im not some young bear whos never seen the dark days,but im not some childish fool who will protest about this and that as it only harms our future and credibility,religion should have no part in rangers,we should be a free club for all to watch and enjoy,we start going on about this crap again and we'd be as well bringing back slavery.and btw singing songs from n.i that include words like the billy boys does offend and should be banned just like anything else that promots violence,anger and hatred towards another,why cant we have rivalry with them lot without people being knifed and shot,because theres too many that keep these silly traditions going and feed it to their young ones to breed a new generation of bigots.

love the club for what it is,a FOOTBALL club

[blueben_d 40]

I hate it when you arent loved back, you think you are then something changes and all of a sudden you are a stranger they wish they never met.

[DadoPrso9 7]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the catholic percentage in Scotland not like 18%? And it was a lot less back in the mid 20th century. So as a protestant club who did employ catholics (although not to the major one like Johnston) even though protestants were the majority religion (and still are) in Scotland. Whos to blame?

Signing policy my arse

[*Manticore* 1,893]

manticore what a fantastic post, a man not scared to speak the truth, i used to think sandy jardine was a rangers hero, not anymore he is just another of murrays yes men who will say anything as long as they are getting well paid.you know my father and my grand father had no money, but still gave everything they had to follow this club, and even when my father was dying in the hospice al he wanted to know was did we win 10 in a row, not the thought of dying he was more worrid about his beloved rangers and he will be totally depresed up in heaven when he sees what murray and company have done to our great club.they have ripped the heart out of the club, and its not the rangers that my father loved as im afraid that has gone.

m I was just thinking about this post and your grandfather a few minutes ago in the car.

I was playing some of the old tunes, and this one came on:

With the Angels I'll be singing

Up in heaven up above

I'll be singing Follow Follow

For the Rangers that I love

[*Manticore* 1,893]

religion should have no part in rangers

Why?

singing songs from n.i that include words like the billy boys does offend and should be banned

So if anything offends anybody it should be banned?

And you're well off the mark if you think TBB has anything to do with Ulster.

[lancedeangers1 287]

cant any of you just support rangers because they are the best football team in scotland?

religion always comes into it,fuck religion,im protestant and dont give a monkeys about it,and im not some young bear whos never seen the dark days,but im not some childish fool who will protest about this and that as it only harms our future and credibility,religion should have no part in rangers,we should be a free club for all to watch and enjoy,we start going on about this crap again and we'd be as well bringing back slavery.and btw singing songs from n.i that include words like the billy boys does offend and should be banned just like anything else that promots violence,anger and hatred towards another,why cant we have rivalry with them lot without people being knifed and shot,because theres too many that keep these silly traditions going and feed it to their young ones to breed a new generation of bigots.

love the club for what it is,a FOOTBALL club

Your out of order here mate. What i think the other posters are getting at is defending our rights and our historic culture. Your right to an extent in saying that religion has no place really in football and im sure most fans would share this view. However it is mainly brought up and spoken about in defence of our legitimate culture. The points some where making is that it always seems to be Rangers getting demonized from all angles and yet there are many other groups out there who are guilty of perpetrating much worse types of offenses and yet they are not targeted for it. I personally dont go to church or care much for religion as such, but i will not just like others sit back and watch all things Protestant / Rangers / British take an unjustified hammering. Rangers just coincidently have a majority of protestant supporters and why should the club or the fans feel guilty about that, just in the same way Celtic do not hide from the fact they are a predominantly catholic club, and why should they. The issue of religion etc rises its head when the same level of democracy and rights are not afforded to all things Protestant / Rangers / British. You claim that singing the words BILLY BOYS offends ? Do you really believe that anybody is actually offended by singing songs about a man who died 300 years ago? Do you think that all the sudden offence that people are feeling is all coincidental and genuine? WISE UP. This is all part of a much larger campaign that goes way beyond Rangers. I am actually taking offence at your views posted on these things and the issue of N.Ireland. I like most genuine Rangers fans accept that times have changed and that we must and should adapt with todays society, but never ever try and ridicule things that most fans legitimately have strong feelings for. As long as we promote and celebrate our love and passion for all things Rangers in such a way that does not overtly abuse, offend or discriminate against others then we should be as loud and as proud as can be..!!

[Schotte 0]

cant any of you just support rangers because they are the best football team in scotland?

religion always comes into it,fuck religion,im protestant and dont give a monkeys about it,and im not some young bear whos never seen the dark days,but im not some childish fool who will protest about this and that as it only harms our future and credibility,religion should have no part in rangers,we should be a free club for all to watch and enjoy,we start going on about this crap again and we'd be as well bringing back slavery.and btw singing songs from n.i that include words like the billy boys does offend and should be banned just like anything else that promots violence,anger and hatred towards another,why cant we have rivalry with them lot without people being knifed and shot,because theres too many that keep these silly traditions going and feed it to their young ones to breed a new generation of bigots.

love the club for what it is,a FOOTBALL club

Your out of order here mate. What i think the other posters are getting at is defending our rights and our historic culture. Your right to an extent in saying that religion has no place really in football and im sure most fans would share this view. However it is mainly brought up and spoken about in defence of our legitimate culture. The points some where making is that it always seems to be Rangers getting demonized from all angles and yet there are many other groups out there who are guilty of perpetrating much worse types of offenses and yet they are not targeted for it. I personally dont go to church or care much for religion as such, but i will not just like others sit back and watch all things Protestant / Rangers / British take an unjustified hammering. Rangers just coincidently have a majority of protestant supporters and why should the club or the fans feel guilty about that, just in the same way Celtic do not hide from the fact they are a predominantly catholic club, and why should they. The issue of religion etc rises its head when the same level of democracy and rights are not afforded to all things Protestant / Rangers / British. You claim that singing the words BILLY BOYS offends ? Do you really believe that anybody is actually offended by singing songs about a man who died 300 years ago? Do you think that all the sudden offence that people are feeling is all coincidental and genuine? WISE UP. This is all part of a much larger campaign that goes way beyond Rangers. I am actually taking offence at your views posted on these things and the issue of N.Ireland. I like most genuine Rangers fans accept that times have changed and that we must and should adapt with todays society, but never ever try and ridicule things that most fans legitimately have strong feelings for. As long as we promote and celebrate our love and passion for all things Rangers in such a way that does not overtly abuse, offend or discriminate against others then we should be as loud and as proud as can be..!!

Well said mate :bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt the catholic percentage in Scotland not like 18%? And it was a lot less back in the mid 20th century. So as a protestant club who did employ catholics (although not to the major one like Johnston) even though protestants were the majority religion (and still are) in Scotland. Whos to blame?

Signing policy my arse

Well I deliberately left septik out before, but maybe it's time to talk about them.

I don't think it's as high as 18% RC, but even if it is, how does that match up with an estimated 80% RC playing staff since 1888, and 100% RC Board membership till recently?

And they have the audacity to accuse us of sectarianism?

[smitzer007 198]

cant any of you just support rangers because they are the best football team in scotland?

religion always comes into it,fuck religion,im protestant and dont give a monkeys about it,and im not some young bear whos never seen the dark days,but im not some childish fool who will protest about this and that as it only harms our future and credibility,religion should have no part in rangers,we should be a free club for all to watch and enjoy,we start going on about this crap again and we'd be as well bringing back slavery.and btw singing songs from n.i that include words like the billy boys does offend and should be banned just like anything else that promots violence,anger and hatred towards another,why cant we have rivalry with them lot without people being knifed and shot,because theres too many that keep these silly traditions going and feed it to their young ones to breed a new generation of bigots.

love the club for what it is,a FOOTBALL club

Your out of order here mate. What i think the other posters are getting at is defending our rights and our historic culture. Your right to an extent in saying that religion has no place really in football and im sure most fans would share this view. However it is mainly brought up and spoken about in defence of our legitimate culture. The points some where making is that it always seems to be Rangers getting demonized from all angles and yet there are many other groups out there who are guilty of perpetrating much worse types of offenses and yet they are not targeted for it. I personally dont go to church or care much for religion as such, but i will not just like others sit back and watch all things Protestant / Rangers / British take an unjustified hammering. Rangers just coincidently have a majority of protestant supporters and why should the club or the fans feel guilty about that, just in the same way Celtic do not hide from the fact they are a predominantly catholic club, and why should they. The issue of religion etc rises its head when the same level of democracy and rights are not afforded to all things Protestant / Rangers / British. You claim that singing the words BILLY BOYS offends ? Do you really believe that anybody is actually offended by singing songs about a man who died 300 years ago? Do you think that all the sudden offence that people are feeling is all coincidental and genuine? WISE UP. This is all part of a much larger campaign that goes way beyond Rangers. I am actually taking offence at your views posted on these things and the issue of N.Ireland. I like most genuine Rangers fans accept that times have changed and that we must and should adapt with todays society, but never ever try and ridicule things that most fans legitimately have strong feelings for. As long as we promote and celebrate our love and passion for all things Rangers in such a way that does not overtly abuse, offend or discriminate against others then we should be as loud and as proud as can be..!!

Well said mate. I honestly believe that 99.9% of Celtic supporters don't give a toss about the 'up to our knees..' stuff but unfortunatly we are being scrutinised by a minority that want to stick the knife in good and deep. We should really piss them off and be whiter trhan white untill the tide eventually turns (and I firmly believe it will).

[Briton 394]

Oh I know some of you think I'm an old bigot...

Absolutely not. I don't even know your age.

[Briton 394]

I see your point Manticore, but what dream is that your following? A dream to return to past times?

In the modern age of PC-brigade driven anti-discrimination and anti-prejudice, we wouldn't get away with ot.

Call it PC driven if you wish (and no doubt it was at one time) but I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of ordinary people are against discrimination and prejudice and a lot of us do not want to get away with it. I realise your not saying you would like us to... just making the point.

[Fixxxer 4]

REligion has as much to with Rangers as beer does. It works hand in hand since they're both part of every day life.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of ordinary people are against discrimination and prejudice and a lot of us do not want to get away with it. I realise your not saying you would like us to... just making the point.

Is somebody advocating discrimination or prejudice?

And what are 'ordinary' people?

[ExiledWeegie123 1,275]

where have i ridiculed any of our support for this?,im just sick of religion in football in general,and yes people do take offence to being upto our knees in fenian blood,my wife being one as shes catholic,as i said im protestant,brought up that way,and yes i do believe in keeping the traditions of our club but when it causes us to be fined,causes us to infight and generally gets us a bad name then im all for doing whats best for the furture of rangers which is trying to erradicate it from our club,and who gives a shit if the same level of democracy isnt afforded us,since when did we care what others thought,we are rangers football club,the best in the land,if we were to cast ourselves in a good light for a change then the arseholes of the media would have to turn their attentions to some other club(celtic) awright we know thats not going to happen but you get my point i hope.this attitude that everyone is out to get us is a little paranoid,something id expect from them lot at the piggery.

and you ask why religion should have no part of rangers? well for a start its cost us coutless supporters lives,its costing us money which we cant afford and its costing us our reputation.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

where have i ridiculed any of our support for this?,im just sick of religion in football in general,and yes people do take offence to being upto our knees in fenian blood,my wife being one as shes catholic,as i said im protestant,brought up that way,and yes i do believe in keeping the traditions of our club but when it causes us to be fined,causes us to infight and generally gets us a bad name then im all for doing whats best for the furture of rangers which is trying to erradicate it from our club,and who gives a shit if the same level of democracy isnt afforded us,since when did we care what others thought,we are rangers football club,the best in the land,if we were to cast ourselves in a good light for a change then the arseholes of the media would have to turn their attentions to some other club(celtic) awright we know thats not going to happen but you get my point i hope.this attitude that everyone is out to get us is a little paranoid,something id expect from them lot at the piggery.

You're sick of religion so it has to go? Is that it?

And your wife is a fenian is she? What do you mean by that?

[ExiledWeegie123 1,275]

u know what i mean,so no point trying to be a cunny funt

fenian as u well know has long been aimed at catholics who support celtic,even though we know thats not the real meaning of the word,and i think if you read it right i said she was a catholic who takes offence to it.

[bauba30 1]

Very sad DS, that you can find offense in what Sandy said. Every word of it true - we have come a long way in the Mints time at the club. Yeah, we did have a RC on the playing staff when he arrived. One. Not a great reflection really is it? But in time, we have made great strides, we hire from all faiths now, based on ability (or age)

Sandy was merely pointing out that times have changed.

Now, Sandy had a great career at Rangers, personally, I think he was the best full back we have ever had, and a darned fine Center hald when moved inside. Also, a gentleman and someone who always represented the club with class and distiction.

Now, he says a few words that go against your beliefs and all of a sudden you turn your back on him and start a thread chastising him.

That, in my opinion, shows you up as someone who prioritises old values over your support for the football club.

Are you an old bigot? Well, lets just say this thread does you no credit whatsoever mate.

[Guest therabbitt]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[*Manticore* 1,893]

u know what i mean,so no point trying to be a cunny funt

fenian as u well know has long been aimed at catholics who support celtic,even though we know thats not the real meaning of the word,and i think if you read it right i said she was a catholic who takes offence to it.

'....upto our knees in fenian blood,my wife being one...' is what you said.

I just asked you for clarification of what you meant.

That might make you think I'm a 'funny cunt', dunno, am I supposed to be impressed by you insulting me?

Hurt?

Anyway, you might mean 'rc' when you say fenian but I certainly don't.