The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A brief trawl through the threads on here show that there are a variety of opinions about who and what we are as a club. What a good thing that is well – it prevents a monopoly of ideology taking our club in a particular direction. If we are truly the club of the people then our expression should express the diversity of beliefs of the people. But for all that freedom of expression there has to be an acknowledgement of who are we are and where we have come from. Unless you have parachuted in from Mars....you will have not missed the Protestant expression of our support, For many years we were viewed as the Protestant club whilst our rivals were viewed as the Catholic club. At many times....and for financial gain both clubs have played on those stereotypes. It was not so long ago a Catholic priest slated his own church for the promotion of Celtic as a Catholic ideal. There are many within our own support who are uncomfortable with our expressions of support for Ulster. To those who feel this way I would ask you to consider 2 things.. (1) Our club were forced into a Protestant identity and from within the deepest echelons of our club we have supported this – for example our chairman John Ure Primrose sat on the same platform as Lord Carson the architect to the opposition to the Home Rule Bill in Ireland (2) A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland therefore it is unrealistic if we are to be as I said in my opening statement an expression of the people...that the people who make up our support will not reflect such ethnicity. Therefore be neither surprised or embarrassed by such expressions of support. In years to come and in a more favourable and balanced climate the struggles of the people of Ulster will become the stuff of legends....whilst the double of talk of politicians will become their noose. Im not asking you to sing the sash or Derry’s Walls...only to ask that observe..albeit reluctantly in some cases...that these are legitimate songs for Rangers supporters to sing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR 1,480 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Top first post Welcome mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF5LOYAL 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Could you imagine Murray adhering to that?!! Good post and spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDelight 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. The majority of our support comes from the West of Scotland...namely Glasgow. I don't think many fans have asked that Derys Walls be banned, I think the problem is the add ons in certain songs and the anti Catholic/anti Ireland bigotry from some of our support. We do clearly still have bigots amongst our support and racists who hate all things Irish....but the club is making great strides in dealing with these people. I have looked at some threads and the amount of anti Irishness is unbelievable. I honestly don't get it...most modern Irishmen have dropped all the anti British stuff and actually support British football clubs. Now that Ireland is a very rich successful country, most Irishmen are more concerned about where to go on holiday or what car to buy rather than thinking about events 80 years ago. Only the Irish scum/underclass still remain anti British....and in Scotland we have plenty of scum/underclass too! I am more than happy for some of our fans, including Ulster fans, to be proud of being Protestant (even though most didn't actually choose their religion but instead were products of their parents religion, as in the case of all religions) but the problem is the fact that some of our fans are pro Protestant but at the same anti Catholic and anti Irish. If they were just pro Protestant then that would be much better and then they would not get nearly as much stick. The amounts of posts on this forum that are constantly having a go at Ireland/Priests/the Pope etc shows some of our fans clearly are still obsessed with hating all things Catholic/Irish. No other football forum I have ever been on has mentioned these things on a scale even close to Rangers forums (follow follow is even worse) and most clubs football forums don't mention these things at all yet still have plenty of fans who attend churches etc within their supports. I mean look at this video from Croke Park - God Save The Queen was completely respected by the Irish support and even applaued. Can you imagine what would happen if the Irish national anthem was played at Ibrox?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF5LOYAL 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. THe majority of our support comes from the West OF sCotland...namely Glasgow. I don't think he meant it like that Just that we have many fans who came over from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kplfishtank 4,674 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 i know who i am i think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandBear 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 (2) A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland therefore it is unrealistic if we are to be as I said in my opening statement an expression of the people...that the people who make up our support will not reflect such ethnicity. WTF.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean_Gene_Okerlund 8 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Superb post, I agree with every word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andypendek Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 My name is Yon Yonson I come from Wisconsin I work in a lumbermill there The people I meet As I walk down the street say 'Hey! What's your name?' I say My name is Yon Yonson I come from Wisconsin and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. THe majority of our support comes from the West OF sCotland...namely Glasgow. Belfast is the second biggest Rangers supporting city in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 but the problem is the fact that some of our fans are pro Protestant but at the same anti Ctholic and anti Irish. During the Eire vs Denmark match a couple of years ago....the fans who thought the Danish winger was Lovenkrands and persistently booed him.....what were they expressing ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandBear 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. THe majority of our support comes from the West OF sCotland...namely Glasgow. Belfast is the second biggest Rangers supporting city in the world. If that is true, (which it possibly is), it still does not make NI gers fans the majority of our support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. THe majority of our support comes from the West OF sCotland...namely Glasgow. Belfast is the second biggest Rangers supporting city in the world. If that is true, (which it possibly is), it still does not make NI gers fans the majority of our support. No I agree and concede my original description was erroneous. Perhaps if I substitute the word significant....would that suffice ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandBear 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland Absolute nonsense. The majority of our support does not come from N.Ireland. THe majority of our support comes from the West OF sCotland...namely Glasgow. Belfast is the second biggest Rangers supporting city in the world. If that is true, (which it possibly is), it still does not make NI gers fans the majority of our support. No I agree and concede my original description was erroneous. Perhaps if I substitute the word significant....would that suffice ? I hear what your saying , however, there is more Scottish Gers fans from outwith Glasgow than there is NI Gers fans at Ibrox at any home game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVB 2,560 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 (2) A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland......... Thats a load of nonsense mate. There are loads of Rangers fans over the water, thats true, but they are a tiny minority in the entire Rangers support. You're just a wee spot in Europe remember. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDelight 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 but the problem is the fact that some of our fans are pro Protestant but at the same anti Ctholic and anti Irish. During the Eire vs Denmark match a couple of years ago....the fans who thought the Danish winger was Lovenkrands and persistently booed him.....what were they expressing ? The exact same problem that some of our fans have. Ireland too has its bigots as I stated in my first post. One of the reasons Rangers are disliked in Ireland is because so many of our fans hate everything Irish, just like some underclass Irishmen hate all things British. Just because some Irishmen act like twats doesn't mean you have to as well! 2 wrongs don't make a right! However, most Irishmen are now more concerned about money and their careers to care about events 80 years ago. In Ireland, it tends to be the underclass/scumbag element that live in crumbling estates who hate all things British just like in Scotland it tends to be the underclass who hate all things Irish. If you check the rugby video (Rugby does attract a better class of fan) then you will see 2 nations respecting each others anthems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 I mkean look at this video from Croke Park - God Save The Queen was completely respected by the Irish support and even applaued. Can you imagine what would happen if the Irish national anthem was played at Ibrox! Oh dear struggling somewhat angel are we not ? The you tube video you refer to pertains to a rugby match.....Im quite certain when the irish anthem is played at Murrayfield it is generally respected. Is it not only a few years ago we did not play the national anthem but asked the tims to respect a minute silence following the death of The Queen Mother....remind me how long did that minutes silence last ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 (2) A great majority of our support comes from Northern Ireland......... Thats a load of nonsense mate. There are loads of Rangers fans over the water, thats true, but they are a tiny minority in the entire Rangers support. You're just a wee spot in Europe remember. See my reposte on this subject Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighlandBear 1 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I mkean look at this video from Croke Park - God Save The Queen was completely respected by the Irish support and even applaued. Can you imagine what would happen if the Irish national anthem was played at Ibrox! Oh dear struggling somewhat angel are we not ? The you tube video you refer to pertains to a rugby match.....Im quite certain when the irish anthem is played at Murrayfield it is generally respected. Is it not only a few years ago we did not lpay the national anthem but asked the tims to respect a minute silence following the death of The Queen Mother....remind me how long did that minutes silence last ? That's why the minutes applause came into play. As the mhanks had proved they cannot keep a dignified silence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 The amounts of posts on this forum that are constantly having a go at Ireland/Priests/the Pope etc shows some of our fans clearly are still obsessed with hating all things Catholic/Irish. No other football forum I have ever been on has mentioned these things on a scale even close to Rangers forums (follow follow is even worse) and most clubs football forums don't mention these things at all yet still have plenty of fans who attend churches etc within their supports. Show me all these posts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDelight 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I mkean look at this video from Croke Park - God Save The Queen was completely respected by the Irish support and even applaued. Can you imagine what would happen if the Irish national anthem was played at Ibrox! Oh dear struggling somewhat angel are we not ? The you tube video you refer to pertains to a rugby match.....Im quite certain when the irish anthem is played at Murrayfield it is generally respected. Is it not only a few years ago we did not play the national anthem but asked the tims to respect a minute silence following the death of The Queen Mother....remind me how long did that minutes silence last ? erm...who mentioned celtic? Celtic fans are not Irish. They think they are, but every Irishman I have met classes them as not Irish but strange people with no idea who they are. Are you denying some of our support hates all things Irish? Not a day goes by on most Rangers forums without someone having a go at Ireland. I'm not going through every thread as I can't be bothered, but many some of our support clearly hate all things Irish and this is clearly racist...it's no different to me hating all things Pakistani. Some Irishmen (maybe 5-10000) travel over for celtic games...but these types will be the Irish underclass I was talking about. Only an idiot would judge a country of 4.5 million based on the actions of 5-10000 celtic fans from Ireland. By all means be proud of being Protestant...but not at the expense of hating all things Catholic/Irish! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andypendek Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Regarding the meat of the point - I haven't heard enyone suggesting Ulster bears should be barred, or even discouraged, from coming to Ibrox. Indeed, the Irish market is a good one for the club to exploit, others do it also, Liverpool and in particular Manchester United are closely associated with having huge Irish following. And for those who wish to celebrate their Protestant links with local fans, they will find a number of places where they can do so. What is new, and what will not change regardless of fan opinion, is that when the supporter enters Ibrox he has to check his baggage at the door. I've seen plenty tricolours and Ulster flags at Old Trafford. They are quite happy for flags of the world to be displayed. Should, eg, some Serbian ManU fans come out with something which is considered objectionable, however, they would be ejected and not be welcomed back. Now, you say, how can celebrating a culture be held to be objectionable? It all depends on ho you do it. Were you to celebrate it by singing The Sash, or Derry's Walls, nothing would happen other than some bleating from people who can safely be ignored. Were you to celebrate it by denigrating another religion, well, that's not allowed anymore. It doesn't matter how annoyed you get by these different times. It doesn't matter if you think it unfair, or biased, or a sneaky campaign by our enemies. The times have changed, and if you don't change at least a bit, you won't find the welcome mat at Ibrox. I would hope, in the end, that 99.9% of Ulster bears will find that their love for Rangers overcomes any annoyance at the club not being a vehicle for Protestantism anymore. I wonder if all of them feel strongly about it anyway? There must be some for whom all this is history already. The club has lost traditional ties to many other areas also, the BB, the Orange Lodge, the Conservative Party (or what's left of it). If you can't accept that the officials at the club have a new outlook on these things (for the worst of reasons - money) you will be left behind. We the fans can't change anything in he club, Miller signing has shown that. Why fight when you can't win? Far easier to celebrate your culture outside the ground, with like minded friends. You win, the club wins, and Timothy is reminded of his place in things. edit: my word, that was a good post from Angel Delight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 I mkean look at this video from Croke Park - God Save The Queen was completely respected by the Irish support and even applaued. Can you imagine what would happen if the Irish national anthem was played at Ibrox! Oh dear struggling somewhat angel are we not ? The you tube video you refer to pertains to a rugby match.....Im quite certain when the irish anthem is played at Murrayfield it is generally respected. Is it not only a few years ago we did not play the national anthem but asked the tims to respect a minute silence following the death of The Queen Mother....remind me how long did that minutes silence last ? erm...who mentioned celtic? Celtic fans are not Irish. They think they are, but every Irishman I have met classes them as not Irish but strange people with no idea who they are. Are you denying some of our support hates all things Irish? Not a day goes by on most Rangers forums without someone having a go at Ireland. I would refer to you to Joseph Bradley's dissertation which suggests that Celtic are in fact the primary focus for Irishness in Scotland. Backed up by Billy Mcneils comments that Celtic are an "Irish club playing in Scotland" But to hell with the facts.....when did you last see a Saltire flying at Parkhead. Why were thy almost almost banned (until Rangers intervention) from the Scottish league in the 50's ? Which flags are most prominent at Parkhead and what is the origin of the songs palyed oevr the offical tannoy prior to games ? The floor is yours angel.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDelight 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Regarding the meat of the point - I haven't heard enyone suggesting Ulster bears should be barred, or even discouraged, from coming to Ibrox. Indeed, the Irish market is a good one for the club to exploit, others do it also, Liverpool and in particular Manchester United are closely associated with having huge Irish following. And for those who wish to celebrate their Protestant links with local fans, they will find a number of places where they can do so. What is new, and what will not change regardless of fan opinion, is that when the supporter enters Ibrox he has to check his baggage at the door. I've seen plenty tricolours and Ulster flags at Old Trafford. They are quite happy for flags of the world to be displayed. Should, eg, some Serbian ManU fans come out with something which is considered objectionable, however, they would be ejected and not be welcomed back. Now, you say, how can celebrating a culture be held to be objectionable? It all depends on ho you do it. Were you to celebrate it by singing The Sash, or Derry's Walls, nothing would happen other than some bleating from people who can safely be ignored. Were you to celebrate it by denigrating another religion, well, that's not allowed anymore. It doesn't matter how annoyed you get by these different times. It doesn't matter if you think it unfair, or biased, or a sneaky campaign by our enemies. The times have changed, and if you don't change at least a bit, you won't find the welcome mat at Ibrox. I would hope, in the end, that 99.9% of Ulster bears will find that their love for Rangers overcomes any annoyance at the club not being a vehicle for Protestantism anymore. I wonder if all of them feel strongly about it anyway? There must be some for whom all this is history already. The club has lost traditional ties to many other areas also, the BB, the Orange Lodge, the Conservative Party (or what's left of it). If you can't accept that the officials at the club have a new outlook on these things (for the worst of reasons - money) you will be left behind. We the fans can't change anything in he club, Miller signing has shown that. Why fight when you can't win? Far easier to celebrate your culture outside the ground, with like minded friends. You win, the club wins, and Timothy is reminded of his place in things. edit: my word, that was a good post from Angel Delight. :clap: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thMusketeer 0 Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Regarding the meat of the point - I haven't heard enyone suggesting Ulster bears should be barred, or even discouraged, from coming to Ibrox And neither have I - but when they chose to express their culture and their homeland.....has there not been been contributors Dek who have suggested otherwise ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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