jebus197

I'd like to throw my hand in on this as well. Eat shit and die! It's sad that revenge might be the only thing we have left to deal in, but at least there's plenty of us, and plenty of revenge to go around. I was against boycotts before, but when we do get back up there, when we get the chance, we should certainly have a hit list of those clubs we can take out most quickly. They should never be forgiven. This is about as personal as it gets.

That's really optimistic and I completely approve. But the objective is to humiliate Rangers and to humiliate and insult that history as much as it's possible to do. There should be a media counter campaign. But the question is who can organise it, who should run it? This thing is such a shambles it's hard to know where to start. It's mad that so far even the Scottish Government have stayed out of this. In the past when major clubs in Italy and Spain have been in trouble, the government has stepped in with public funds to bail them out. Maybe that's something we need here - that and the entire SFA to resign and commit suicide. How can the SFA be acting above and beyond the law though? There's nothing in law that says they can do what they are doing. The one thing they hold over us is the licence, big stick though it may be. So OK the previous company fucked up. They did some dodgy shit, but we took our punishment and nosedived all the way to the bottom of Scottish football (more or less) as a punishment for this. But it's still not enough for them - and clearly they still want more. What I don't think is that the penny hasn't quite dropped for a lot of guys here yet, especially for those who pushed for division 3 as a way of getting away from all this crap. Even though we are now (maybe) in division 3, nothing at all yet has changed - and these guys are all still coming after us regardless. They haven't finished taking their pound of flesh yet. They don't just want Rangers punished, they want Rangers gone. I can't imagine that the punishment for paying players from illegally obtained funds is going to be anything less than severe. But I hope and pray it won't go as far as stripping titles. If it did, that might be the point when a lot of people could begin to feel that it really was game over. You know the ironic thing is that if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Celtic who were sinking, I wouldn't feel happy, or feel like gloating about it. I would recognise it for the disaster for Scottish football that it would be. Some of you guys might feel differently, but there really are bigger issues at play when clubs of this size and this significance fail. But the hatred other clubs and so many other people in Scottish football have shown for us has (for me) been little short of breathtaking. We are (or were) just a football club. How could anybody come to hate us so much? I had no idea it was so bad. If we do get through this though, I'm not sure that it will ever just be about football again.

*satisfactions* = sanctions, lol.

The reality is that Green and Co probably do feel that the almost literally have no choice, if we want any kind of licence to play at all. It's a horrible predicament to be in, but even though we are (well almost, maybe!) in div 3, we may have no option but to bend over and to keep taking it up the arse. The SFA still hold a lot of the cards - even if the game they're playing is piss poor. With the state we're in at the minute, playing in England is utter fantasy too - except maybe if we play in some local public parks against pub teams there, lol.(You've got to laugh, almost!) Also all talk of Bomber, or whoever coming in and rescuing the day is all just pie in the sky too. Even if he did, which he has shown no real indication of being able to do, we would still face all the same shit of fines sanctions, div 3, and kickings from every corner of the country anyway. Bomber and Co may have passion, but I don't think passion is enough in a mess like this. I don't know anything about Green, but all I do know is that we need some kind of genus with a brilliant business brain and masses of determination and talent, if we're going to find our way through this thing at all. I don't know if Green's that guy. I don't know if anybody's that guy.

I'm just curious how much of what this idiot says could come true? Of course he wants to see Rangers buried. I said at the beginning it was no surprise. But this thing hasn't stopped rolling yet. So the question is when will it? I get that just posting the views of this guy here is a bit like showing a red rag to a bull and that any logical conversation is probably nearly impossible after this. He is clearly relishing the agony of Rangers and Rangers supporters, so any hatred he has shown should be returned in full. But how crazy is his call for additional severe satisfactions on the club after we take up our place in division 3? Instead of just screaming it down, just because you guys have "seen green" isn't useful and doesn't do anything to answer the question. I get that Rangers fans and Celtic fans hate each other with a vengeance. (I on the other hand don't give that much of a fuck, even though I'm still a Rangers fan. Although I have been genuinely shocked by the sheer level of hatred directed at us, by almost every corner of Scottish football. I never understood how bad the hatred really was until now.) I would like to see some kind of sensible discussion of what might happen from here, so maybe I can sleep a little better at night. So OK you all just read the opening link and lost the plot because of who it was. Fair enough. But what about the rest? What about the SFA threatening to still impose sanctions and fines and possibly even more severe sanctions, if their investigations into the way players were paid go against us too? What's the point of all of this suffering and division 3 stuff then? (Except that it looks like we didn't really have any choice.) I'm not blaming Rangers, or Rangers fans. I think the buck stops squarely with the mismanagement of the SFA. There's a lot they could have done to prevent things from getting so bad. Their job after all is surely to protect Scottish football, not to set out to wreck it, or to risk damaging it for maybe the next 10 or 15 years. I just don't get if there was any truth in the above - even if it didn't come to stripping titles or whatever, how the SFA can continue to justify imposing these sanctions? How can you strip titles, or fine an entity that in many reasonable senses, doesn't even exist any more? I'm not saying that Rangers FC doesn't exist any more, but the way I look at it it's a bit like buying an antique. You buy the antique with all of it's history and provenance intact (like maybe you buy a Van Gogh, or something like that). Plenty of people can still admire and appreciate the antique every bit as much as they did before, but you can't punish the new owners for the crimes of the past owners. It doesn't matter if the past owners were maybe fraudsters, or bank robbers or whatever. It just makes no sense at all. I don't think the SFA are operating within the law in this regard, and I seriously think they should be made to. But if all you guys want to do is rave on about how much you hate Celtic, well fair enough, but it has fuck all to do with this topic.

OK, so you would expect this : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9406620/Rangers-should-be-stripped-of-their-titles-if-found-guilty-of-using-EBTs-says-former-Celtic-captain-Tom-Boyd.html But is this really how bad things could get? How much humiliation does this club and it's fans have to endure? Is there no limit to it? Is there no limit to the level of hatred that practically everyone except the Rangers fans have for this club? I mean the idiocy of it all is they aren't just destroying Rangers, they're destroying Scottish football. Now we move on to Ally being kicked - and the SFA's continued insistence on imposing the sanctions applied against the old company to the new company. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9406214/Rangers-in-crisis-Ally-McCoist-could-face-disciplinary-action-for-comments-on-SFA-tribunal-panel.html You know I'm sure that there isn't a single basis in law that says a new company has to accept the debts and responsibilities of an old - and soon to be wound up company, particularly if that old company has been liquidated. In more than just a technical sense, the new company has nothing whatsoever to do with the affairs of the old company. But here's the irony surely ..? I mean a lot of guys pushed for division 3, on the premise that we would escape sanctions and debts etc for doing so. But if you read through all of the above, you will see that that simply isn't happening. Division 3 was also supposed to be an honourable exit for us. We took on board that Whyte and Murray had engaged in some very shady dealings - and so division 3 and exclusion from the top flight for maybe 3 to 5 years, was a very severe and dignified punishment we were willing to take. But that's not the way pretty much everyone else in the game sees it. This kicking has far from stopped. But what was the point of it all, of throwing our support behind division 3, if in the end it hasn't won us anything and if this day by day beating just carries on? It's absolutely vicious. I mean this is gross incompetence on behalf of the SFA. How could they allow things to have sunk so far? It really feels like death by a thousand cuts. No team, no ability to field a quality team, because of the transfer ban, penalties imposed on us on behalf of a set-up that has nothing to do with us any more, huge debts still potentially looming over us, hints of possibly even more severe future sanctions - and to top it off, our asses have still been kicked into division 3! It worries me to think what investors in their right minds would stick around long enough to try to work this mess? The SFA do seem like a bunch of incompetent dictators too though. They say they will work out a deal this week, but given their track record so far, what chance is there of that actually happening? As things stand, even beginning to play in division 3 isn't certain yet. In any case I think when the say 'deal', it's likely what they mean is they will lay out just how much more they are going to stick it to the newco in the arse, for things that have got exactly zilch to do with them. Green says he won't walk out. But surely it would take a superhero (or a crazy person) to at least not think about it?

Why is this guy even still breathing?

I got to around the 5th or 6th tenuous link in this web of conspiracy and coincidence, before losing the will to live and giving up ...

So as a newco, that technically has nothing to do with the old Rangers, exactly how much of this money do we still owe? Surely as we are now a completely different company - and no one can impose any penalties on us since we went for division 3, then we should now be pretty much debt free?

They clearly didn't act in the best interests of Scottish football, or their shareholders, given the degree of damage that is likely to ensue. What they voted for was for a wrecking ball, to swing it's way through the entire Scottish game.

So I have no class? I see my club - and specifically the club I recall as a boy attending many matches with as a kid with my dad, in the process of nearly sinking without a trace, while vultures lurk, and gloat and boast about their 'achievements' and how great it is to see this once great club in the predicament it's now in. Did you even read some of the stuff that was being said there? Don't talk about 'integrity', or honesty or decency. The majority of these guys are motivated by raw unmitigated hatred. They would be happy to see Rangers sink - even if it meant potentially losing their own club. That's how much they hate Rangers and Rangers fans. The whole debate about 'integrity' is a joke. If it was about integrity, then where's the integrity in the harm that's been imposed on Scottish football, or in all of the jobs that will be lost, or on the status of Scottish football on the international stage. If all of these clubs shrink, it might take a generation or more until they bounce back. So no I'm not sorry. I think this was by far and away a fan motivated decision. It was the hatred of a whole bunch of rival fans that led us to this point, as much as it had anything to do with Gilmour and co. The majority of these guys gambled. They caved in to fan pressure - but they thought they could dictate the terms of Rangers exit to Division 1 too. But clearly the SFL - and most fans weren't in a mood to listen. They may think they have won something. But lets wait and see. There are plenty of people to blame for this mess - and I don't see any reason to think about forgiving any of them any time soon. The saddest and most ironic part of this whole deal though, is that the most innocent victims of all are the Rangers fan base themselves. We're told "we" cheated, "we" robbed, "we" stole, etc. But we were as screwed over by this whole thing as anyone. People need to know about this - and why the majority of us feel that the best place of all for us is to start again from scratch - and to rebuild our integrity from the bottom up - and to let those other clubs who lack integrity pay the price.

Hey guys, you might like to all pop over to this forum for a while to express your 'sympathy' with the St Mirren fans, lol: http://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/forums/index.php/forum/1-general-st-mirren-discussion/ The registration button is on the top left if you can't find it. (I had a little trouble.)

Well it's about time!!! I finally managed to register on the forum - after nearly 2 hours of trying. That image thing you have to read to register is stupidly difficult. It took me over 14 attempts in the end. Anyway, I've been a lurker for quite a while. But given the calamity that appears to have befallen us all recently, I thought I should come along and have my say too!