I give my backing to P Murray and D King because...

[gunslinger 270]

king and p murray didnt have to though

they could have paid wages etc from their own pockets if they were that desperate to help our club out

instead it now looks like they have sat back and waited on whyte doing the dirty work etc, and when it seemed that their stranglehold on the club was about to be released, they had to act

if they were really interested in saving us, their piss poor bid to the bank for the debt in jan 2010 would have been more serious

perhaps they are just not soft in the head. which is a good sign.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,038]

perhaps they are just not soft in the head. which is a good sign.

or perhaps they are fucking at it, and are scared to lose the prestige of being part of the famous glasgow rangers board

the fact we have been fucked for years, and this lot have sat there and waited until a takeover had been apparently agreed verbally, smacks of desperation

yet we wont know fuck all as no one talks unless its to their own benefit

[gunslinger 270]

or perhaps they are fucking at it, and are scared to lose the prestige of being part of the famous glasgow rangers board

the fact we have been fucked for years, and this lot have sat there and waited until a takeover had been apparently agreed verbally, smacks of desperation

yet we wont know fuck all as no one talks unless its to their own benefit

perhaps

[Plamf 39]

whore with no name - can you give an example of some football clubs that work well with a handful of rich owners? Arsenal over the last few years is a good example of the internal conflict that arises when there is not a clear majority shareholding. I bet if you were to look across all the clubs in the latter stages of the Europa and Champions League this year you would find the VAST majority have a clear majority shareholder/leader running the club. You honestly think it would work well if a handful of rich Scots pumped full of self interest ran this club? Who would make the decisions?

Your head is in the clouds like every other leftist.

Oh and I like capitalism, seems just a tad better than communism

[ChrisVanDarche 23]

Ellis will bleed us dry. I'm backing P Murray.

[gunslinger 270]

whore with no name - can you give an example of some football clubs that work well with a handful of rich owners? Arsenal over the last few years is a good example of the internal conflict that arises when there is not a clear majority shareholding. I bet if you were to look across all the clubs in the latter stages of the Europa and Champions League this year you would find the VAST majority have a clear majority shareholder/leader running the club. You honestly think it would work well if a handful of rich Scots pumped full of self interest ran this club? Who would make the decisions?

Your head is in the clouds like every other leftist.

Oh and I like capitalism, seems just a tad better than communism

i would bet a fair percentage are fan owned

[Plamf 39]

i would bet a fair percentage are fan owned

Go ahead then list them all.

And for the record I was talking about whore with no name's ridiculous proposal of a few people owning the club not a large group of fans electing a leader, which would fail drastically here.

[gunslinger 270]

Go ahead then list them all.

And for the record I was talking about whore with no name's ridiculous proposal of a few people owning the club not a large group of fans electing a leader, which would fail drastically here.

the german and spanish ones. two best leagues in the world btw

and i saw what you were saying

[Allanger 625]

the german and spanish ones. two best leagues in the world btw

and i saw what you were saying

Fan ownership of Rangers is not going to happen and if we take Barcelona as an example, they have been bailed out many times and are in huge debt

[gunslinger 270]

Fan ownership of Rangers is not going to happen and if we take Barcelona as an example, they have been bailed out many times and are in huge debt

the best examples are in germany

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,038]

the best examples are in germany

aye but they can make a mint selling bevvy at the games,

[gunslinger 270]

aye but they can make a mint selling bevvy at the games,

there is much to be admired about the german model.

[gunslinger 270]

Surely you can see the fact that our debt is down to manageable levels because of the cost cutting that was 'imposed' on us?

yes of course it is. but i maintain its lower than it has to be and most importantly its really there because of walter smith and his team. given the fact that there was no money to spend in january its clear the bank fells its either at the right level or not low enough. so what if we hadnt made the cl in either of those two seasons. how would they have got to these levels. i think we can guess.

secondly i told boss and others last summer that the cost cutting was to savage and would cost us the league. the standard reply was dont be stupid celtc are shite. well they arent. of course i could yet be as wrong as them. if they bank was only marginally more flexible we could be lining up tomorrow with commons and miller in our attack.

If, as the Sun says which we will take with a pinch of salt even though it was clearly 'briefed', the debt will be brought down to fifteen million then that is a cut of around 5-ish million from where we are now? Certainly doesn't change much in real terms if we're paying it back in small chunks?

theres 18 million left on the term loan lets take that as our figure. at an interest rate of 5% thats 1.9 million to pay back next year and abit less every year from then. its not perfcet in any way shape or form but nor is it crippling. perhaps boss can give us a more accurate figure for the interest rate but so far as i can se 5% is above lior

Why would they not use the proposed share issue to clear the debt to Lloyds, leaving what, around five million to spare. Why not open a new bank account elsewhere with a ten million or so overdraft (offset maybe against Champions League earnings) - which would surely be available to a club of our size?

well this is more debt and overdraft rates are higher normally surely. as i have intimated lloyds needn't be the problem they once were if they are simply fair with us and let us run the business properly with in the agreed limits of our banking facilities. remove there two men from the board and work like any other normal company that has our credit score. they also seem to feel the stadium and squad need alot more than 5 - 15 million spent on them.

Giving us something like ten or fifteen million to play with at a new bank - one that doesn't have a history of raping us?

Unless of course Lloyds weren't the big baddies that they were once touted as...

alot of that will depend on the league result this year. one things for sure they should be walters biggest fans. aj said they were running the club through muir. lloyds havent even bothered denying it this time. i think its fair to say those who said they were, were right all along. mr muir is routinly called lloyds man at rangers in the press now. for me they ran the club with only self interest in mind and if we hadnt brought in huge incomes from the cl cuts would have been extra ordinarily savage. think about what would have been required to recoup even the 16 million cl revenue we got last year. thomson and wilsons sales. no purchases and another 12 million of cuts.

mr muir has also tried to sell our top scorer to his pal in jan. sold our best midfielder for a small sum in jan and sold our top scorer and a clear front runner for poty in jan. as well as allowing players to drift into the last year of there contracts willy nilly with little regard for the consequences. and thats me being careful not to stray into the realms of the rumours of whats been going on which are far worse. the individual can decide if they are baddies or not....

hi rab sorry i dint answer this fully soon but i have worked 16 of the last 24 hours and slept the other 9.

[A Horse With No Name 27]

Plamf…

There’s an old saying about NOT resolving issues / debates while you throw insults about – to continually insult me has me in stitches for the simple reason that it just tells everyone that you’ve lost the argument… which for me, is odd and funny because you’ve never really entered the debate have you? Just the tired old vitriol aimed at Communism added to the name calling which Admin seem to be turning a blind eye to… yet, when I have retaliated in the past ‘I’VE’ been banned or warned… Christ it’s just like being a Rangers fan…

But for those who really want to enter into reasonable discussion: This routine about there not being examples of top (don’t think we’re there are we?) European teams where there have been a few men (and women) sharing ownership and the example of Arsenal being shown… Now, I haven’t a clue about Gunners, though one thing I’d say is that they aren’t in debt they? Maybe, that’s partly down to them NOT having a Big Time Charlie ready to throw the clubs cash about? Yes, they could’ve put money forward at the right time and bought wisely for important positions in the team, but at least they’re in a healthy position – if they had a Bougherra in their team d’you they’d have to contemplate selling him for less than £1 M? Anyway hasn’t a wealthy American bought them? If so, we’ll see what a One Man Show brings for them… Ultimately, it won’t work for Chelsea, when this Russian gets kissed off with the toy his ego will go elsewhere and where will they be? Hardly got the fan base to maintain any kind of challenge in the world of money eh?

Leaving aside Arsenal – I’m a Chelsea man myself – looking at other big European teams… Now, this ‘plamf’ (what sort of name is that? Should I rearrange the letters? (Flam P - Lamp F, F Lamp God your not Frank Lampard are you? - Flim Flam man…) says he reckons the ‘majority’ of big European teams will be owned by ONE PERSON and that explains their success… Now, It’s well known that in Germany and Spain they go in heavily for fan power/ownership (remember Hamburg and a Spanish Club sending people over to explain their ideas for us to think over?) and that being the case I’d question this ‘most big European teams have one person in charge’ line.

Now, what I’m saying here is pretty simple (so plamf might have a slight chance of understanding it – IF he can put away his insulting attitude and hatred of Communism for a minute that is – that I feel that YES there’s gonna be obstacles when people work together and that’s why I’m not 100% convinced Whyte will fit into the picture, but P Murray and D King have been working together for ages and along with the fact that this ownership will be spread to bring in others then it’s clear this 2-3 people is gonna grow and grow and THAT’S where my hopes spring from.

Let me explain what happens in Industry… Plamf won’t want you to see this but I’ll go ahead anyhoo! When some companies (Governments too) are ready to go to the wall (in recession) then the bosses will go to the workers to bail them out. They’ll come out with this “take a wage cut now and we’ll give you shares WHEN the recession is over… (spread the pain then feel the gain…) Now, being a Commie I’m dead against this because when the recession is over that isn’t what’s gonna happen – if it was they’d be pushing us towards a Communist State and quite clearly that’s not their intentions. When the recession is over they just sell their company at a reduced price to one of their pals (or more than likely just let it fold then take their Capital elsewhere starting again with the workers getting the same old same old routine…) and before you know it the workers are out of a job and their shares are worth the centre of a doughnut! In other words the needle returns to the start of the song and they all sing along like before!

Now, how does that relate to Rangers? Well, If P Murray and D King go down that road (as there’s every indication they will) when things change (EPL? I doubt it, but once that ‘product’ gets a bit worn down i.e. one or two clubs continually winning and the TV companies want to add a wee bit of ‘oomph’ they’ll be susceptible to Rangers and IR@ lovers) we’ll, IF WE PLAY OUR CARDS RIGHT AND HAVE LISTENED TO THE LIKES OF HAMBURG ETC be able to maintain a hold of our club!

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Queue more whores/donkeys with no name insults… **** font... Since the Admin aren’t gonna bring these people to book I’ll be ignoring their ‘contributions’ (or just pressing that ‘ignore button’) but if anyone has anything of interest to say then let’s hear it! I’m a 100% Rangers man through and through and think I should be treated with a bit of respect – the same respect I give to every other poster, even those that deserve none at all!