If the court throws out the transfer embargo can Uefa reimpose it

[stevotrueblue 382]

How will this court case help us if we just end up being expelled from the SFA? If they have the balls to just refuse our registration or kick us out or whatever the proper terminology is for not playing by the rules,, winning the case wont get us anywhere if we have nowhere to play?

I only just heard about all this a couple of hours ago. I live in England so havent had privelage (or displeasure) of the Scottish papers and TV,, and have spent the last couple of days caring for a sick Mrs and a 2ry old,,, so maybe im missing something.

Can someone fill me in on our version of what we are doing and what we hope to gain please lol ???

[jerfeelgood 0]

as you and i both know ,UEFA and aspecially the most corrupt organisation in the world are run with people,who have little or no interest in the groundwork of our game,ffs look after investigation how many are resigning there well paid[and corrupt takings etal] ,Jack Warner,and the head of them all Sepp Blatter,but tell you what ,,deflect,deflect,,sounds familiar.............

true and true,

Bernie ecclestone and formula 1, samaranch and the IOC, etc etc, yet these bodies adapt and go on.... mostly because they are the only ones willing to have a go at organising the international ends of their sports. it ain't beautiful but it works..... mostly

p.s. and obviously make fields of cash while they're at it....

[topgoalie 637]

true and true,

Bernie ecclestone and formula 1, samaranch and the IOC, etc etc, yet these bodies adapt and go on.... mostly because they are the only ones willing to have a go at organising the international ends of their sports. it ain't beautiful but it works..... mostly

p.s. and obviously make fields of cash while they're at it....

honestly mate how the fck that corrupt and HUGE organisation gets away with this is beyond comprenesion,and because they can collaborate esp. against the English,esp.against their World cup bid,is nothing short of abysmal,now do not tell me that money does not talk,Qatar ffs,England has hosted ONE world cup,the backwater of Mexico has had TWO,getting off track,but we as a club,like many others should tell UEFA and FIFA to gtf,we could EASILY sustain ourselves in a major EURO league with the undoubted support we have.......

[jerfeelgood 0]

honestly mate how the fck that corrupt and HUGE organisation gets away with this is beyond comprenesion,and because they can collaborate esp. against the English,esp.against their World cup bid,is nothing short of abysmal,now do not tell me that money does not talk,Qatar ffs,England has hosted ONE world cup,the backwater of Mexico has had TWO,getting off track,but we as a club,like many others should tell UEFA and FIFA to gtf,we could EASILY sustain ourselves in a major EURO league with the undoubted support we have.......

Okay, i'm not arguing the level of support. I will argue that does this does not and should not guarantee you access to international competition. If the level of support was the yardstick for entry then it WOULDN'T BE A SPORT. If you are arguing for a competition with no entry standard??? or an entry system based on support size???? i'm not sure what you're arguing in favour of...

How many of the major clubs are railing against the current set up? how many are so dissatisfied that you think they might walk away from UEFA??? the beauty of the current system is that any club or team no matter what their size can access the european structures... okay it's tougher in England where the big brands dominate the slots. In scotland where european slots are traditionally dominated by the old firm, but take ireland where there is no big soccer brand in terms of a club, european minnows and tributary to the English FA yet one of my favourite moments this season is the look on Harry Redknapps face when Shamrock Rovers went 1 up in white hart lane.... reminded me of the san marino goal against england in the world cup 94 qualifiers for sheer sporting comedy... even the minnows have their day...

Next, to sustain an alternative european soccer structure would require collossal startup capital to entice the big brand teams, would require herculean negotiaiting to establish it for the purposes of sponsorship, tv rights etc etc.... the writing and re writing of a code of conduct, a set of rules applicable under law, all of the issues you seem to be railing against.... in the current and foreseeable economic future thats a pipe dream....

It's not about support. it's about business. and making money. and operating profitably. Are we really the ones to be sticking our heads out on that issue?

Jer

[islandblue 366]

As the op I think this thread has gone off point. Maybe I didn't make post clear enough.My worry is I'd football debts are not paid will Uefa not impose a transfer embargo anyway.

[jerfeelgood 0]

As the op I think this thread has gone off point. Maybe I didn't make post clear enough.My worry is I'd football debts are not paid will Uefa not impose a transfer embargo anyway.

apologies, probably my fault there? can a mod split this debate off to a seperate thread? under the title "legal case and uefa implications" please?

sorry about hijacking your post...

Jer

[DamienM855 413]

He was a shite painter and decorator tbh

Brilliant pun!

[topgoalie 637]

Okay, i'm not arguing the level of support. I will argue that does this does not and should not guarantee you access to international competition. If the level of support was the yardstick for entry then it WOULDN'T BE A SPORT. If you are arguing for a competition with no entry standard??? or an entry system based on support size???? i'm not sure what you're arguing in favour of...

How many of the major clubs are railing against the current set up? how many are so dissatisfied that you think they might walk away from UEFA??? the beauty of the current system is that any club or team no matter what their size can access the european structures... okay it's tougher in England where the big brands dominate the slots. In scotland where european slots are traditionally dominated by the old firm, but take ireland where there is no big soccer brand in terms of a club, european minnows and tributary to the English FA yet one of my favourite moments this season is the look on Harry Redknapps face when Shamrock Rovers went 1 up in white hart lane.... reminded me of the san marino goal against england in the world cup 94 qualifiers for sheer sporting comedy... even the minnows have their day...

Next, to sustain an alternative european soccer structure would require collossal startup capital to entice the big brand teams, would require herculean negotiaiting to establish it for the purposes of sponsorship, tv rights etc etc.... the writing and re writing of a code of conduct, a set of rules applicable under law, all of the issues you seem to be railing against.... in the current and foreseeable economic future thats a pipe dream....

It's not about support. it's about business. and making money. and operating profitably. Are we really the ones to be sticking our heads out on that issue?

Jer

personally i think about MY club,in European terms we are well up there,and as for a pipe dream,you say you are a rugby fan,so tell me who do the top teams play against in that chosen sport,is it not French etc.,so why should a club the size of Rangers and dare i say it Celtic play in the backwater of Scottish football,we are known WORLDWIDE and are constantly at the beck and call of our nationalistic and nomadic regime,we have been held back for so long,and after the disgraceful,and utter contempt that they have shown this great club,is nothing short of............

[jerfeelgood 0]

So.... on uefa and transfer debts....

I believe that Rangers currently owe monies as part of existing transfer deals (correct me if i'm wrong) and that these debts are being nudged into the CVA???? If Rangers write off transfer debts does this not jeopardise the entire transfer market. should this not receive the highest sanctions by international bodies as it jeopardises the entire system. If Rangers are allowed to write off these debts who picks up the tab? because the other international clubs that are owed transfer fees will surely not condone a competition with a team that screwed them financially and would be entirely within their right to take issue with it. I'm certain that somewhere in the UEFA rules there will be a VERY STRICT rule in place to protect the clubs who are selling the players....

If these debts are written off (i.e. no funds to pay for existing transfers) surely the commensurate response must be a transfer embargo, or a cash up front transfer limitation to ensure the integrity of the transfer system in the international sense. As this is an international issue, it would be UEFA who would be the enforcing body...

if anybody knows the precedent on this (leeds, motherwell etc....) and whether previous clubs that have gone CVA/Newco route and had transfer debts could they please mention them...

again correct me if i'm wrong.

Cheers

Jer

[The Beast 9,300]

Is it a transfer embargo or a registration embargo?

My understanding is that we can sign who we want but we can't register their contracts with the SFA.

I'm not sure if that makes a whole lot of difference?

[jerfeelgood 0]

personally i think about MY club,in European terms we are well up there,and as for a pipe dream,you say you are a rugby fan,so tell me who do the top teams play against in that chosen sport,is it not French etc.,so why should a club the size of Rangers and dare i say it Celtic play in the backwater of Scottish football,we are known WORLDWIDE and are constantly at the beck and call of our nationalistic and nomadic regime,we have been held back for so long,and after the disgraceful,and utter contempt that they have shown this great club,is nothing short of............

So with professional rugby... in europe there are three top flight leagues, french super 14, english premier and Rabo pro12 (ireland, scotland, wales, italy). these are the leagues governed by their respective football unions. European rugby has two major competitions, amlin challenge (europa league) and Heieken cup (champions league) both governed by the ERB (UEFA). Now qualification for various competitions is adjudicated by the controlling body of their respective competitions as it is in football. I love my team. My team has a large fanbase. I do not believe that the size of my clubs fanbase should decide which competition I should be allowed access to. If my club performs well, and adheres to the rules of the competiotion, I am a happy man. that's my rugby. If a club, or indivuald within a club break the rules or bring the game into disrepute they are sanctioned by the relevent adjudicating body under supervision from appropriate international body...

read this short article to see how rugby is adjudicated on the international club scene...

http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate

I am sure there were harlequins fans who were devestated by the issue, but the issue remained and was adjudicated within the auspices of the governing bodies....

but I digress....

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

As I understand it football debts stand out with a CVA in Engjand but not sure about Scotland

[topgoalie 637]

So with professional rugby... in europe there are three top flight leagues, french super 14, english premier and Rabo pro12 (ireland, scotland, wales, italy). these are the leagues governed by their respective football unions. European rugby has two major competitions, amlin challenge (europa league) and Heieken cup (champions league) both governed by the ERB (UEFA). Now qualification for various competitions is adjudicated by the controlling body of their respective competitions as it is in football. I love my team. My team has a large fanbase. I do not believe that the size of my clubs fanbase should decide which competition I should be allowed access to. If my club performs well, and adheres to the rules of the competiotion, I am a happy man. that's my rugby. If a club, or indivuald within a club break the rules or bring the game into disrepute they are sanctioned by the relevent adjudicating body under supervision from appropriate international body...

read this short article to see how rugby is adjudicated on the international club scene...

http: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate

I am sure there were harlequins fans who were devestated by the issue, but the issue remained and was adjudicated within the auspices of the governing bodies....

but I digress....

i agree on what you say,but if A CLUB OR INDIVIDUAL,or INDIVIDUAL fuck off.......

[jerfeelgood 0]

As I understand it football debts stand out with a CVA in Engjand but not sure about Scotland

from a corporate sense do international creditors enjoy different protections to domestic creditors. who adjudicates an international debt? an interesting fine point in player transfers....

if football debts are outside the CVA, whats the breakdown on rangers current debts? do these debts still exist post CVA? do they carry to a newco? anybody know?

[topgoalie 637]

from a corporate sense do international creditors enjoy different protections to domestic creditors. who adjudicates an international debt? an interesting fine point in player transfers....

if football debts are outside the CVA, whats the breakdown on rangers current debts? do these debts still exist post CVA? do they carry to a newco? anybody know?

yes i know but im certainly not telling you......

[GLASGOWRFC 101]

from a corporate sense do international creditors enjoy different protections to domestic creditors. who adjudicates an international debt? an interesting fine point in player transfers....

if football debts are outside the CVA, whats the breakdown on rangers current debts? do these debts still exist post CVA? do they carry to a newco? anybody know?

The debts Rangers owe to other clubs for players (CVAor no CVA) must be paid in full...the money clubs owe us must be paid in full too...in a nutshell debts between clubs (transfer fees) must be paid.

Our embargo was given because we failed to make payments on previous transfers due to lack of cash, a lot of people have wrongly thought the embargo was for not paying tax!

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

from a corporate sense do international creditors enjoy different protections to domestic creditors. who adjudicates an international debt? an interesting fine point in player transfers....

if football debts are outside the CVA, whats the breakdown on rangers current debts? do these debts still exist post CVA? do they carry to a newco? anybody know?

Not sure, would we for example have to pay the Jelavic debt but not the Wallace debt?

Or vice versa?

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

The debts Rangers owe to other clubs for players (CVAor no CVA) must be paid in full...the money clubs owe us must be paid in full too...in a nutshell debts between clubs (transfer fees) must be paid.

Our embargo was given because we failed to make payments on previous transfers due to lack of cash, a lot of people have wrongly thought the embargo was for not paying tax!

Was it not for not paying ticket money?

Ie Dundee Hibs in the SC

[Spacecowboy 92]

He was a shite painter and decorator tbh

shite plasterer as well TBF

[GLASGOWRFC 101]

Was it not for not paying ticket money?

Ie Dundee Hibs in the SC

No mate it was for bringing the game into disrepute via our transfer activities that's why they banned us from doing more...it's in another thread here somewhere

[topgoalie 637]

Okay, i'm not arguing the level of support. I will argue that does this does not and should not guarantee you access to international competition. If the level of support was the yardstick for entry then it WOULDN'T BE A SPORT. If you are arguing for a competition with no entry standard??? or an entry system based on support size???? i'm not sure what you're arguing in favour of...

How many of the major clubs are railing against the current set up? how many are so dissatisfied that you think they might walk away from UEFA??? the beauty of the current system is that any club or team no matter what their size can access the european structures... okay it's tougher in England where the big brands dominate the slots. In scotland where european slots are traditionally dominated by the old firm, but take ireland where there is no big soccer brand in terms of a club, european minnows and tributary to the English FA yet one of my favourite moments this season is the look on Harry Redknapps face when Shamrock Rovers went 1 up in white hart lane.... reminded me of the san marino goal against england in the world cup 94 qualifiers for sheer sporting comedy... even the minnows have their day...

Next, to sustain an alternative european soccer structure would require collossal startup capital to entice the big brand teams, would require herculean negotiaiting to establish it for the purposes of sponsorship, tv rights etc etc.... the writing and re writing of a code of conduct, a set of rules applicable under law, all of the issues you seem to be railing against.... in the current and foreseeable economic future thats a pipe dream....

It's not about support. it's about business. and making money. and operating profitably. Are we really the ones to be sticking our heads out on that issue?

Jer

harry redknapps face,when SHAMROCK ROVERS scored,and when San Marino scored against England,fck what made you think of that,GO HOME your country NEEDS YOU..

[jerfeelgood 0]

The debts Rangers owe to other clubs for players (CVAor no CVA) must be paid in full...the money clubs owe us must be paid in full too...in a nutshell debts between clubs (transfer fees) must be paid.

Our embargo was given because we failed to make payments on previous transfers due to lack of cash, a lot of people have wrongly thought the embargo was for not paying tax!

withdrawing this post

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

No mate it was for bringing the game into disrepute via our transfer activities that's why they banned us from doing more...it's in another thread here somewhere

Was the disrepute thing not the inference that the directors should have known what was going on?

We've been hammered so many fukkin times one penalty fades into another

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

this may be stating the obvious.... but....

If this is the case, what argument can be made in the court of session regarding the embargo? that the punishment is too severe? If rangers sold a player to bristol city and they couldn't stump up the cash what punishment of bristol city by the english FA would you settle for? you can't impose a fine as this would only mean the club has less money with which to resolve it's transfer debts and would be taking money out of that creditors pocket with whom you're trying to make good...

They hit us with the maximum fine as well as a transfer embargo so that argument doesn't wash

[jerfeelgood 0]

They hit us with the maximum fine as well as a transfer embargo so that argument doesn't wash

i thought the fine was for a seperate charge?