Even more thoughts of charlie.

[ray 105]

WTF is this.

By TOM ENGLISH

Published on Sunday 10 June 2012 00:00

Charles Green’s straight-talking might not stretch to revealing the names of every player in his consortium to buy Rangers but the Yorkshireman was in fighting form again yesterday when stating that the club would have folded if it wasn’t for his involvement, while also stating that he has not ruled out accepting the now overturned transfer embargo placed on the club by the SFA’s Judicial Panel.

And going on to say that, should Rangers exit administration by the newco route, there is no guarantee that the club will be in the SPL, or even in the SFL, next season.

“That club without us would have closed,” said Green. “When I get these comments about the Blue Knights were going to do this… Get your cheques out and buy it! I have said to everyone every day, I am here to do a job and I want to raise as much money for Rangers as I can. I don’t care where that money comes from as long as it is legally obtained.

“If fans don’t want us there, buy the shares and kick us out. I will have a contract. If you don’t like me, sack me. Before, that could never happen but that’s why I have done it this way so that’s exactly what can happen. The club will be listed on the stock market and if the fans want to take over that club, take it over.

“If the CVA doesn’t go through, then newco kicks in and we have to go through all the application processes and there would be no guarantee of being admitted back into the SPL or even the lower leagues. There is no certainty.”

Green has claimed that Rangers will have £30 million in the bank come the end of July, the proceeds of a share issue. “No one will be able to say that Charles Green didn’t allow us to buy shares and brought all these people in because anybody can buy shares. By the end of July, we will have £30m-plus in the bank from the share issue. Rangers have never had that much cash in the bank. Never. Because it was either siphoned off to Ticketus or siphoned to deal with other financial inter-group companies.”

There remains heavy suspicion about Green and it will remain until such time as the money is invested and the names of his backers are revealed. It’s a level of cynicism that he understands. Indeed, he says he would be suspicious himself if he was a Rangers supporter.

“If I was a Rangers fan, I would be suspicious. If someone said ‘That’s Ibrox’, I would want to touch it because they can’t believe anything anyone has told them in the past. I understand why people are nervous and I think that’s healthy.”

Green also rails against the criticism of his mechanism to buy the club through a high-interest loan of £8.3m. “The reason it is a loan is because I never wanted the 26,000 existing shareholders diluted and destroyed. If I put all those monies in as equity on the first day, they would have been down to nothing. This is a classic example of where I have spent hours with my advisers and paid them big fees to protect the minority and I am now the bad guy, this crooked guy who is putting a loan in to take 4000 per cent interest on it.”

In the business of Rangers and the potential Armageddon that awaits them now that Lord Carloway has to reconsider the verdict of the SFA’s Judicial Panel, Green states that all options are open, including a possible acceptance of the original verdict despite the club having overturned it in the Court of Session.

“We have not dismissed any option. What we want is to get a successful outcome for Rangers and its fans and for Scottish football as well. I have said, crimes were committed and someone has to pay.”

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

“This is a classic example of where I have spent hours with my advisers and paid them big fees to protect the minority and I am now the bad guy, this crooked guy who is putting a loan in to take 4000 per cent interest on it.”

Is he trying to tell us Wonga.com are one of the investors?

[ray 105]

What he is I think telling us is, 1) “If fans don’t want us there, buy the shares and kick us out". i.e. put up or shut the fuck up.

2)Green states that all options are open, including a possible acceptance of the original verdict despite the club having overturned it in the Court of Session. i.e. He doesn't rule out living on our knees every vestige stripped away, take the kickings even though the law said it was wrong.

I have said, crimes were committed and someone has to pay.”

What fuckin crimes ! who needs enemies indeed, my doubts about charlie increase by every statement as does my belief that whytey is not far away.

If you have high blood pressure do not listen.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/scotland/scotfoot/scotfoot_20120609-1642a.mp3

[Tamb 126]

CG is willing to take any shit thrown, just as long as he makes a profit and then moves on. He looks on this as a business opportunity, nothing else.

[ray 105]

He is expecting creditors to take a major hit and in the next breath bumming about raising £30 million after the creditors have taken the hit, the guy is looking more and more like a tool, or is he really attempting to scupper any CVA, whytey will be pleased.

[Bertent 2,081]

Instead of frothing at the gash how about reading the story. Can you point me to where he said hell take the transfer ban? Also have we paid our VAT yet, cause I could have sworn that for weeks every post on the subject says we should get a reasonable punishment. Now with a few choice bits of editing and selective quotes its pitch fork time.

[ray 105]

Instead of frothing at the gash how about reading the story. Can you point me to where he said hell take the transfer ban? Also have we paid our VAT yet, cause I could have sworn that for weeks every post on the subject says we should get a reasonable punishment. Now with a few choice bits of editing and selective quotes its pitch fork time.

Why don't you take your own advice and read, try to understand what you read, crimes by their very nature are criminal acts, since you appear totally fucked up how about pointing out the crimes charlie is directly quoted as pointing to.

[Bertent 2,081]

Why don't you take your own advice and read, try to understand what you read, crimes by their very nature are criminal acts, since you appear totally fucked up how about pointing out the crimes charlie is directly quoted as pointing to.

My you are hysterical this morning, but if you check the HMRC website youll see that the deliberate witholding of tax is classed as criminal.

Or are you using the "that was whyte" defence that has been sooooooo effective up till now.

[bubblybear 258]

I think he (green) is really applying pressure on everyone hmrc ticketus and crediters to accept cva, fans to accept they are the only show in town and we should back them as gers would have been closed by now!? dave king who is frothing at the mouth to get at him cause he knows he's beening shafted again! sfa/spl he knows like we all do we will be in spl this season, also read we are using the 21 day cooling period from transfer embargo to his advantage sfa have said they won't appeal, we are saying nothing till 21 days are up and then we will show our hand? Dangling carrot accept cva and i will name backer? Have a read at leggo's blog today maybe he's not so mad after all! Maybe i am going slowly mad trying to keep up with it all

[Bertent 2,081]

I think he (green) is really applying pressure on everyone hmrc ticketus and crediters to accept cva, fans to accept they are the only show in town and we should back them as gers would have been closed by now!? dave king who is frothing at the mouth to get at him cause he knows he's beening shafted again! sfa/spl he knows like we all do we will be in spl this season, also read we are using the 21 day cooling period from transfer embargo to his advantage sfa have said they won't appeal, we are saying nothing till 21 days are up and then we will show our hand? Dangling carrot accept cva and i will name backer? Have a read at leggo's blog today maybe he's not so mad after all! Maybe i am going slowly mad trying to keep up with it all

Leggos blog today sees him attack Andy Kerr. Is he the latest to don a suit and pick up a violin case? What Leggo fails to mention, and I cant think why, is if this CVA fails the liquidation will be immediate. I would have to assume that the Blue Cashlites mouthpiece is either pished again, or has been tipped the wink that the real rangers men will swing in and get the club on the cheap. But what puzzles me is how these real rangers men are going to avoid the penalties that he states quite freely will happen to Green, after all a liquidation is non negotiable.

[ray 105]

My you are hysterical this morning, but if you check the HMRC website youll see that the deliberate witholding of tax is classed as criminal.

Or are you using the "that was whyte" defence that has been sooooooo effective up till now.

The withholding/late filing of tax/paye is not a criminal offence, it is at worst a civil misdemeanour and at best a simple misdemeanour.

Many firms in financial difficulties have gotten out of short term trouble by using tax/paye deductions as operating capital. Who was it if it wasn't whyte who used the deductions to keep the club running and invited HMRC to take civil action ?

You are another hand wringer who thinks we should be punished when we have not been charged let alone convicted of anything.

[bubblybear 258]

Leggos blog today sees him attack Andy Kerr. Is he the latest to don a suit and pick up a violin case? What Leggo fails to mention, and I cant think why, is if this CVA fails the liquidation will be immediate. I would have to assume that the Blue Cashlites mouthpiece is either pished again, or has been tipped the wink that the real rangers men will swing in and get the club on the cheap. But what puzzles me is how these real rangers men are going to avoid the penalties that he states quite freely will happen to Green, after all a liquidation is non negotiable.

Not in anyone's cornor 100%, but have they not said if cva fails green will own ibrox and murray park? i aslo don't understand the share's bit, so they want to ask/take money from everyone, but we don't know who the directers will be? so in one hand i guess he's mocking tbn (not having the cash) if you want to survive pay into to this but you will not have a say as we don't know who will be running the club.

[ray 105]

Not in anyone's cornor 100%, but have they not said if cva fails green will own ibrox and murray park? i aslo don't understand the share's bit, so they want to ask/take money from everyone, but we don't know who the directers will be? so in one hand i guess he's mocking tbn (not having the cash) if you want to survive pay into to this but you will not have a say as we don't know who will be running the club.

He mentions the fans us no one else.

“If fans don’t want us there, buy the shares and kick us out".

Sounds to me like put up or shut the fuck up.

[bearsinbath 95]

He is expecting creditors to take a major hit and in the next breath bumming about raising £30 million after the creditors have taken the hit, the guy is looking more and more like a tool, or is he really attempting to scupper any CVA, whytey will be pleased.

Hear Hear Ray! I have just posted the following in - Charles Green last night pledged to raise £30million for Rangers by the end of July - "I don't think this is the best time to be announcing this! Considering we have the Creditors this week hopefully agreeing the CVA from a pot of £8M. How would you feel? You are being offered x pence in the pound on god knows how much then this announcement is made! I know I would not be happy. He should have kept this announcement 'til after the CVA is agreed and watched the Mhanky Mhob go into meltdown, unless he knows something or has agreements already in place? lets hope so."

Not good timing me thinks!

[Bertent 2,081]

The withholding/late filing of tax/paye is not a criminal offence, it is at worst a civil misdemeanour and at best a simple misdemeanour.

Many firms in financial difficulties have gotten out of short term trouble by using tax/paye deductions as operating capital. Who was it if it wasn't whyte who used the deductions to keep the club running and invited HMRC to take civil action ?

You are another hand wringer who thinks we should be punished when we have not been charged let alone convicted of anything.

ecurity for PAYE (Pay as You Earn) and/or National Insurance contributions (NICs)

Following legislation in Finance Act 2011, from 6 April 2012 HMRC will be able to ask employers to provide a financial security, backed by a criminal sanction for non-compliance, where they identify a serious risk of failure to pay PAYE and/or certain NICs..

No need for me to resort to insults when a copy and paste from the HMRC.

Carry on Ray, Billy Smart has an opening.

[ray 105]

ecurity for PAYE (Pay as You Earn) and/or National Insurance contributions (NICs)

Following legislation in Finance Act 2011, from 6 April 2012 HMRC will be able to ask employers to provide a financial security, backed by a criminal sanction for non-compliance, where they identify a serious risk of failure to pay PAYE and/or certain NICs..

No need for me to resort to insults when a copy and paste from the HMRC.

Carry on Ray, Billy Smart has an opening.

I would laugh but I won't as you obviously do not understand the legislation and the correlation required by the constituent factors, also that which would trigger any perceived criminal actions. Carry on CoCo.

[Bertent 2,081]

I would laugh but I won't as you obviously do not understand the legislation and the correlation required by the constituent factors, also that which would trigger any perceived criminal actions. Carry on CoCo.

But you said there was no criminal penalties/acts, now you are saying well they are, but....

Ray, post all the gifs you want, but the fact is you have an interpretation of an article based on your own prejudices. Quite what motivates you or has led you to express that opinion in the ways you do is open to others to guess.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/thelibrary/tax-paye/paye-securities.htm#2

[ray 105]

But you said there was no criminal penalties/acts, now you are saying well they are, but....

Ray, post all the gifs you want, but the fact is you have an interpretation of an article based on your own prejudices. Quite what motivates you or has led you to express that opinion in the ways you do is open to others to guess.

No I am saying there isn't, no one least of all The Rangers have been asked to lodge a compliance security with HMRC which is being rethought by HMRC as it may breach freedom of trade and restrictive practices, hence The Rangers cases are being dealt with as civil matters.

Believe me CoCo the HMRC website is the last place I need to look.

[BRITNEY IS NOT FEELING IT 8,293]

With CG stating that after the cva, there will be almost four times the money for he cva avaliable . Thats a way of getting hmrc on board ffs

[Bertent 2,081]

No I am saying there isn't, no one least of all The Rangers have been asked to lodge a compliance security with HMRC which is being rethought by HMRC as it may breach freedom of trade and restrictive practices, hence The Rangers cases are being dealt with as civil matters.

Believe me CoCo the HMRC website is the last place I need to look.

So again Ill ask is witholding of PAYE against the law.

Cause to a non tax expert like me, adding penalties for non payment look remarkably like a punishment.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

He is expecting creditors to take a major hit and in the next breath bumming about raising £30 million after the creditors have taken the hit, the guy is looking more and more like a tool, or is he really attempting to scupper any CVA, whytey will be pleased.

I share these concerns.

[ray 105]

So again Ill ask is witholding of PAYE against the law.

Cause to a non tax expert like me, adding penalties for non payment look remarkably like a punishment.

Let's start again, there is adequate existing legislation in the HMRC's armoury to address as they see it criminal actions,evasion by another name.

The problem is that there are those within HMRC who see themselves as an arm of government, as opposed to what they are in reality a government collection agency. Many are under the impression that the Revenue are somehow infallible and untouchable, nothing could be or is further from the truth, the Revenue as all are subject to the law of the land.

Indeed the rather unsavoury affair involving Vodafone and HMRC chief Hartnett has turned out to be a spectacular own goal unknown to the public at large, many Revenue offices up and down the land are snowed under with appeals and point blank refusals to pay citing the infamous Voda/Goldman Sachs fiasco.

Is PAYE being withheld illegal, the Revenue in their wisdom or stupidity can class anything as evasion in their eyes that makes it illegal, even if it is late returns or clerical error, tribunals and courts have found the Revenue's train of thought flawed on countless occassions resulting in Nil return.

The new legislation which you pointed out is flawed in so many respects, apart from the legislation to deal with that particular problem already being available.

On a more fruitful note, I am confident HMRC have had a bad result for them at the FTTT, so not all doom and gloom.

[barcodebear 85]

Is he trying to tell us Wonga.com are one of the investors?

I think that would be the TBK's source of money rather than Green's consortium.

Good try though.

[ray 105]

I think that would be the TBK's source of money rather than Green's consortium.

Good try though.

It would help if we knew who the consortium was if there is one, therre is no reason at all for the secrecy none whatsoever, unless..

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,686]

It would help if we knew who the consortium was if there is one, therre is no reason at all for the secrecy none whatsoever, unless..

My guess would be you think its someone dodgy involved however there is also the possibility that its someone majorly rich and willing to back us massively that would damage the CVA being accepted.