Born Under A Union Flag : A Response

[Bobby Hume 13,502]

You think you have a grasp on reality?

Just at tad more than you, I'm willing to wager, going by your very, very low standards of comprehension.

Were you press-ganged and forced to work as a punishment. ( Oven cleaning, by some strange coincidence).

I've read enough from both sides to see that independence is better for the country as a whole. I was hoping for some intelligent comments here but didn't get any, mainly insults.

Insults, oh dear, welcome to the real world pal.

What reading on the subject ......the Beano!!.?

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I will look into it. Don't expect an answer tomorrow.

God... that sounds awfully like body-swerving....very separatist....well done.

When I want to know something I look up the opinions of economics professors and suchlike. I have more trust in their opinions than yours, mate.

Where do you look up these opinions? WIKI.

Oh, And Another Thing......... is it Hollywood or Compston or even Disney Land you inhabit, just to be sure.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

If you went to live in another country you would not be allowed to vote in any referendum to decide their future.

In poland I would. If I move to an EU country then yes I could.

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

What utter rubbish!!

Have you seen it?

[CaptainofIndustry 921]

I worry about the mindset of folk who think their views are so vitally important that they need to elevate their 20 minute, internet fluff, to a vanity book project.

Richardson's Joan Burnie-style views will always have a platform. Dingwall, Graham and Co will see to that. She's their foul-mouthed attack dog who ensures those with traditional views are kept on the periphery of the debate. Carmody is her male equivalent, FP of a Glasgow Catholic school who vigorously attacks those who criticise single-faith schooling. If these people represent the future of the Rangers support, we are truly fucked.

[BillyFC 81]

Why not? If a Polish guy, lives in Scotland, pays tax in Scotland and is effected by the decision, surely then he has a say............

Democracy is as British as it gets. To deny democracy is to turn our back on everything. We are not fascists.

I don't think you need to pay tax to have a vote. My understanding is that you could be a 16 year old schoolboy from Poland (lets use Poland, nothing against the Polish I should say) living with your unemployed parents (picking up on the tax point again, nothing against the unemployed) who has only recently moved to Scotland and you get a vote. I, on the other hand, a UK citizen born in Scotland (Bothwell as it happens!), who lived in Scotland till I was 35 (and paid tax), had my family in Scotland, who feels very Scottish (and British), moved south with my job (to another part of my country) and who would probably move back at some point don't.

I do see myself differently to those who moved outside of the UK (like 'And another thing') in that I pay taxes in this country (the UK) which makes a contribution to all of the UK (including Scotland). I feel that this should entitle me and others in the same position to a vote. Salmond knew however that having worked amongst our southern neighbours that we're less likely to buy into his emotional Braveheart shit.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Richardson's Joan Burnie-style views will always have a platform. Dingwall, Graham and Co will see to that. She's their foul-mouthed attack dog who ensures those with traditional views are kept on the periphery of the debate. Carmody is her male equivalent, FP of a Glasgow Catholic school who vigorously attacks those who criticise single-faith schooling.

Re the last sentence;

This is a joke yeah?

[CaptainofIndustry 921]

Re the last sentence;

This is a joke yeah?

I wish it was, bud. Sadly, it's 100% true.These people are agent provocateurs, I'm convinced of it.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I wish it was, bud. Sadly, it's 100% true.These people are agent provocateurs, I'm convinced of it.

Incredible

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

I don't think you need to pay tax to have a vote. My understanding is that you could be a 16 year old schoolboy from Poland (lets use Poland, nothing against the Polish I should say) living with your unemployed parents (picking up on the tax point again, nothing against the unemployed) who has only recently moved to Scotland and you get a vote. I, on the other hand, a UK citizen born in Scotland (Bothwell as it happens!), who lived in Scotland till I was 35 (and paid tax), had my family in Scotland, who feels very Scottish (and British), moved south with my job (to another part of my country) and who would probably move back at some point don't.

I do see myself differently to those who moved outside of the UK (like 'And another thing') in that I pay taxes in this country (the UK) which makes a contribution to all of the UK (including Scotland). I feel that this should entitle me and others in the same position to a vote. Salmond knew however that having worked amongst our southern neighbours that we're less likely to buy into his emotional Braveheart shit.

The point about tax was purely to make the point that they now lived and contribute to Scottish society. It is their democratic right to vote. You don't live in Scotland so therefor are not affected. You say you might move back, but you might not. How many ex-pat scots are there???? How could that possibly be administered. And if you are against the unemployed..... why feel the need to mention them? Are schemey third generation unemployed from Govan allowed to vote in your version? Or just as long as they are not Polish?

[CaptainofIndustry 921]

Incredible

I know, mate. I genuinely have no idea why these misfits are tolerated for one second.

[BillyFC 81]

The point about tax was purely to make the point that they now lived and contribute to Scottish society. It is their democratic right to vote. You don't live in Scotland so therefor are not affected. You say you might move back, but you might not. How many ex-pat scots are there???? How could that possibly be administered. And if you are against the unemployed..... why feel the need to mention them? Are schemey third generation unemployed from Govan allowed to vote in your version? Or just as long as they are not Polish?

I mentioned the unemployed to emphasise the fact that you don't need to pay tax to vote which is what you said in your post (and seem to be repeating although perhaps you mean contribute in a non financial sense). I am affected by the vote in Scotland, I think all of the citizens of the UK are affected. There are approximately 750,000 ex-pat Scots living in England and if the Scottish government couldn't administer them having a vote then I really do fear for how they can administer anything. As for the schemey point, I'm from a scheme and don't know where that came from in your post. My point wasn't that people resident and contributing in Scotland shouldn't have a vote but that people who are Scottish who happen to be living in another part of the UK should have one too.

[lancedeangers1 287]

Very interesting and insightful D'artagnan . I may have to read it for myself also.

[bawsburst 1,381]

have you ever read this book B, recommend it mate

http://www.amazon.co...b born fighting

The truth is out there.

http://tinyurl.com/Scots-buld-America

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

I mentioned the unemployed to emphasise the fact that you don't need to pay tax to vote which is what you said in your post (and seem to be repeating although perhaps you mean contribute in a non financial sense). I am affected by the vote in Scotland, I think all of the citizens of the UK are affected. There are approximately 750,000 ex-pat Scots living in England and if the Scottish government couldn't administer them having a vote then I really do fear for how they can administer anything. As for the schemey point, I'm from a scheme and don't know where that came from in your post. My point wasn't that people resident and contributing in Scotland shouldn't have a vote but that people who are Scottish who happen to be living in another part of the UK should have one too.

Fair do's. I didnt pick that up from your comments. My bad. I still disagree but do respect where you are coming from.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

1. Is the NHS under threat? I don't know enough. Can you enlighten me?

2. Why would it be a disaster for the UK if Scotland ruled itself? Don't you think they are intelligent enough? Scottish universities are famous the world over for their standard of education. People from all nations go there to study.

Someone can correct me here if I am wrong, But I thought the Scottish Government had been in charge of NHS Scotland since circa 1999

[daviec1953 147]

I've never ever felt oppressed or ruled over by the English ,or anyone else for that matter, therefore I'm entirely comfortable with my Scottish / British Identity.

This identity comes from 300 years of shared achievments and sacrifice and is much more precious to me than 2 verses of Flower of Scotland. (which incidently they can shove up their arses)

VOTE NO

[The Dude 20,026]

Re the last sentence;

This is a joke yeah?

Part truth part made lie. I've never seen Garry 'vigorously attack' anyone one who criticises single faith schooling. I have seen it suggested however that Garry was sexually abused as a result of attending an RC school with absolutely no basis in reality.

[blue-heaven 4]

1. Is the NHS under threat? I don't know enough. Can you enlighten me?

2. Why would it be a disaster for the UK if Scotland ruled itself? Don't you think they are intelligent enough? Scottish universities are famous the world over for their standard of education. People from all nations go there to study.

1) As has been pointed out already one of the Yes campaigns latest scare tactics is to say that the NHS will be privatised if we stay in the union....even though the NHS is already devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

2) Why are you mentioning Intelligence...Of course it would (I will re-iterate that this is just my view) be a disaster for any country to lose 1 third of its land mass and 1 tenth of its population but more importantly we would lose our common bond and kinship that has helped all the parts of the UK grow and flourish.. You mention Scottish Universities being famous the world over, they are famous with Scotland being part of the union, surely that must show the success of the union we have, We are united in such a way that despite having a union that has lasted over 300 years Scotland as a country still retains its National Identity. We truly have the best of both worlds where we can be both Scottish/Northern Irish/Welsh/English (whatever 1 is applicable) and British

[Fan Ownership 101]

Personally, supporting Rangers doesn't influence my politics or my views on organised religion (all of it is beyond mental).

I don't really have any issue with anyone who feels that Rangers is a part of their own individual identity - tying it with their religion and political views. That's down to the person. I don't really think anyone should believe the Club is for or against their own beliefs though. It's a football club - that's not to diminish what Rangers is to me, it's a huge part of my life. All down to individual choice. I don't think someone deserves to be vilified for being pro-Indy or a republican and a Rangers fan. It's as much their right to hold that view as it is yours to hold the opposite.

Rangers' fan base has generally mirrored the majority view of wider Scottish society. That support of unionism and monarchy were prevalent in the Club 100 years ago and 70 years ago is hardly surprising, given that was the view of 90% of the country. Things change and times change though. As Scotland has modernised and diversified, so too has Rangers' fan base and with it the Club has become a broad church.

I'm not sure I go in for the idea that you can place relevance on something said in 1967 by an individual within the Club and call it tradition, but dismiss the views of the Club in, 1872, 1987 or even now and say that isn't tradition. Seems like you're selecting the facts to fit the argument. The founders of our club were four young guys, made up from the wider regions of Scotland with no political or religious agenda. No Gallant Pioneer ever decreed the Club would be inwardly or outwardly protestant/unionist in ethos. Were it not for the formation of Celtic, there's a fair chance a large section of our current fanbase would be of Irish Catholic descent (as it was prior to Celtic's formation). Our "identity" in the following years happened in relation to Celtic and was the mirror of wider-society again - stick to your own. It happened by default, not by design or desire. As religion inevitably declined across the country, and wider integration of protestant and catholic communities happened across the country, so went said "identity" - both in Rangers and Celtic, as well as Hibs, Hearts, Dundee, Dundee Hibs etc. Vestiges of it remain intact through our songbooks, I suppose, but that's more a result of tribalism in the modern day than any real attachment or desire for things to move back 100 years.

What of the many great 'traditions' that we decide to ignore in the modern day though? Like, for example, support of the national side? We used to be the largest attendees of Scotland games - now look at the threads on Scotland squads and games, actively hoping they get beat. How is that upholding traditions?

[Bothwellbear 1,392]

1) As has been pointed out already one of the Yes campaigns latest scare tactics is to say that the NHS will be privatised if we stay in the union....even though the NHS is already devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

2) Why are you mentioning Intelligence...Of course it would (I will re-iterate that this is just my view) be a disaster for any country to lose 1 third of its land mass and 1 tenth of its population but more importantly we would lose our common bond and kinship that has helped all the parts of the UK grow and flourish.. You mention Scottish Universities being famous the world over, they are famous with Scotland being part of the union, surely that must show the success of the union we have, We are united in such a way that despite having a union that has lasted over 300 years Scotland as a country still retains its National Identity. We truly have the best of both worlds where we can be both Scottish/Northern Irish/Welsh/English (whatever 1 is applicable) and British

Westminster controls the amount of money for the nhs but Scottish government controls where it goes. If England privatises then budgets will be cut. The nhs needs to not be privatised in the first place.

[Bluefarm 1,055]

Never heard of this charming female until this morning. I checked her Twitter page and she does appear to be a charmless and somewhat vulgar young lady. Nice to know Chris Graham has her back though, that will certainly gain her many friends Chris Graham thought RM was a "Cesspit" and wasn't very keen on VB either by the looks of things. Does this chap like any Rangers fans?

I thought the above article was well written and very constructive if truth be told. If this young lady has a problem with Rangers fans and FC being identified as Unionist, Loyalist or Protestant, then she should take her support elsewhere.

These cowards I've mentioned above care about cash, fame and being controversial only. Can someone explain to me where these lunatics appeared from?

[rab wilson 3,250]

In my young days we were Protestant, Unionist, and Monarchist Tradition.

and so shall we remain minstral.

No Surrender

Rab

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Westminster controls the amount of money for the nhs but Scottish government controls where it goes. If England privatises then budgets will be cut. The nhs needs to not be privatised in the first place.

Who said it would?

It's a complete made up non story designed to scare people

The Scottish Govt are the worst offenders for spending on private health services

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I'm not sure I go in for the idea that you can place relevance on something said in 1967 by an individual within the Club and call it tradition, but dismiss the views of the Club in, 1872, 1987 or even now and say that isn't tradition. Seems like you're selecting the facts to fit the argument.

If you read my article again you will see that I havent suggested it is a tradition - Ive suggested it was a mis-guided, ham-fisted attempt etc to establish our Protestant credentials.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Richardson's Joan Burnie-style views will always have a platform. Dingwall, Graham and Co will see to that. She's their foul-mouthed attack dog who ensures those with traditional views are kept on the periphery of the debate. Carmody is her male equivalent, FP of a Glasgow Catholic school who vigorously attacks those who criticise single-faith schooling. If these people represent the future of the Rangers support, we are truly fucked.

Id respectfully suggest the greatest danger to being on the periphery of the debate is to engage in emotive or insulting language rather than engage in the debate itself.