allcinaye 336 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I don't think there is anyone on here who isn't naive. I have heard a lot of people repeating what they've heard politicians say, but none commenting on what economists say. I trust the views of economists over that of lying and scaremongering politicians. But this is not the place to discuss something as serious as independence, after all, the union flag is too ingrained in Rangers traditions.Without elaborating too much in response to some of the stupid comments that you have made relative to the Scottish Independence question I will instead ask to check out the following link which details possible actions that will be taken by one of the biggest financial institutions that currently has it's headquarters in Scotland and who in all probability employ some of finest economists when it comes to financial decision making.I would also like to take this opportunity to ask you if you have any idea of what is contained in the Natsi Party's future fiscal policy.Standard Life reiterates concerns about Scots ... - Reutersuk.reuters.com/.../uk-standard-life-results-idUKKBN0G50G820140805PSYou will have to copy and paste the above link into a Google search bar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogzy 31,195 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Gogzy's stoned?I fucking wish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 The express link is exactly scaremongering. They "may" have to take jobs south. It "could" happen. Classic Project Fear.As I posted earlier, the Nobel Prize winning economist has called out the No campaign for their fear and bluffing regarding moving jobs out of Scotland and not allowing Scotland to use sterling. But keep reading the Unionist papers; you don't want your blinkers to come off.Also, as I said earlier, I like to get my information from economists as they're going to be honest, not politicians and biased newspapers.I somehow think EU laws will have to be respected dont you ? Or just like the currency union, should everyone change the rules just to accommodate Alex Salmond's failure to address the issues and his lack of overall vision ?Wee Eck can play the soundbite of "sovereign will of the Scottish people" as much as he likes - we are not buying it. Unless of course we have to pay for it with a couple of sheep and a shekel of oats.You and youre "Nobel Prize Wining economist" are starting to sound like a one trick pony.Those "English threats" you referred to in an earlier post are actually EU Laws. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I fucking wish.Move to California, everybody's growing it where I live . Legally! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Move to California, everybody's growing it where I live . Legally!Aye but it sounds like youve been smoking everybody's.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well I'm not going to read the Telegraph, Express, Daily Record, Sun etc and few of you are going to read economics expert's opinions, so we're stuck at name calling. Not much else can be said here. It's getting too darn silly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hume 13,219 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Move to California, everybody's growing it where I live . Legally!I take it you are one of their best customers then, going by your far out (extremely far out) posts.Not judging you Angus, just concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Aye but it sounds like youve been smoking everybody's....I've almostAye but it sounds like youve been smoking everybody's....I rarely touch it anymore, although it's tempting when I go out for a walk and you can smell it growing. In a couple of months the air will be thick with the scent. Reminds me of India .I prefer malt whisky in my old age. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well I'm not going to read the Telegraph, Express, Daily Record, Sun etc and few of you are going to read economics expert's opinions, so we're stuck at name calling. Not much else can be said here. It's getting too darn silly.So let me just summarise - you through your own ignorance come on here waffling and accusing people of "scaremongering" and "English threats".When it is pointed out to you it is neither scaremongering nor English threats, but is in fact rooted in EU legislation you wish to suggest we are stuck at "name calling " ???Oh dear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I take it you are one of their best customers then, going by your far out (extremely far out) posts.Not judging you Angus, just concerned. Thanks for your concern, but I thought I was Hamish? Your short term memory seems to be affected. Sounds like you enjoy a toke yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 So let me just summarise - you through your own ignorance come on here waffling and accusing people of "scaremongering" and "English threats".When it is pointed out to you it is neither scaremongering nor English threats, but is in fact rooted in EU legislation you wish to suggest we are stuck at "name calling " ???Oh dear.I guess my title as RMs premier Troll (can't remember who bestowed such an honour upon me sadly) remains intact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 So let me just summarise - you through your own ignorance come on here waffling and accusing people of "scaremongering" and "English threats".When it is pointed out to you it is neither scaremongering nor English threats, but is in fact rooted in EU legislation you wish to suggest we are stuck at "name calling " ???Oh dear.Guess you didn't read the links. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hume 13,219 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Thanks for your concern, but I thought I was Hamish? Your short term memory seems to be affected. Sounds like you enjoy a toke yourself. Sorry to disappoint you Morag but I do not Imbibe, I need all my faculties when I am around someone as cutting edge as yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmcf 34,449 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well I'm not going to read the Telegraph, Express, Daily Record, Sun etc and few of you are going to read economics expert's opinions, so we're stuck at name calling. Not much else can be said here. It's getting too darn silly.Naw . You'll just base you're argument on ' wings over Scotland ' instead ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
And another thing... 64 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Naw . You'll just base you're argument on ' wings over Scotland ' instead !I guess you didn't read all the posts....http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-20/stiglitz-says-u-k-would-drop-denial-of-pound-to-scotland.htmlhttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28929433 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmcf 34,449 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I guess you didn't read all the posts....http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-20/stiglitz-says-u-k-would-drop-denial-of-pound-to-scotland.htmlhttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28929433 I did actually. Each side will roll out an ' expert ' that suits their argument . It's what politicians do , I'm afraid . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingInTheNorth 27 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The most annoying thing about this referendum is that we don't have a neutral referendum commission to present the facts as they actually are. twisting/manipulation of facts is rife on both sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJonny 41 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I fail to understand the Yes campaign on many points, especially the "taking control of our own future" phrase that seems to have become a motto in the Yes camp. To me it seems a lot less like controlling our own future and more denying responsibility and control. The UK still remains exceptionally powerful on a global stage: it is one of 5 UN members with a veto[1], It is a member of G8[2] & G20[3], It is included in the membership of the unofficial EU G3, G4 & G6[4], it has the joint second highest number of seats in the NATO Parliamentary Assembly with France, Germany & Italy (USA has the highest)[5], It is one of 5 Nuclear Weapon States under the NPT[6] and it has the worlds second largest Financial centre (London)[7].No matter if you view any of these negatively, a Yes vote would reduce or remove the amount of control you have in the future of these areas. The one that baffles me the most is the nuclear weapon debate, with a large majority of Yes voters using an anti-nuclear weapon stance as a reason for independence. I will not argue the pros and cons of nuclear weapons, that is not the point I am trying to make. What I am trying to say is that independence will not be a blow to nuclear weapons; on the contrary it will take those in Scotland out of the debate in any real sense. If it is reasonable to state that Scotland is against nuclear weapons, then independence will simply ensure that they remain in the hands of those who are pro them. If anything this will ensure the continuation of nuclear weapons more than any diminishing effect it will have. This is true for each statement in that list, independence will not our say on this ever smaller earth, it will diminish it.There is also the argument of national pride to be had. In discussions with friends who are strongly on the Yes side this is a subject that is always brought up, though it is almost always sidled up to slowly. It is the idea that Scotland is so culturally distinct from the others in the UK that the very idea of a unified government is not sustainable. Scotland has a rich and proud history, but after 300 years of union the very idea of us not sharing a culture is amazingly laughable to me. Though I do have some sympathy, it is always easier to see differences than similarities. Scotland may find its self more socialist leaning than the rest of the UK, in fact I would describe myself as a socialist (economically)… well I would if I didn’t find myself very strongly disliking every party in this country that claims to be socialist. But the very essence of a country is not to be with people who agree with you all the time, it is not there to make politics more straightforward, nor is it there to define your identity for you (though it may still do so). It is there so that those within it’s boarder can work together for the betterment of everyone within that boarder, regardless if it is militaristic, social, economic, etc. it is for us to work together. Independence is not giving power to Scotland, it is giving up on the rest of the UK and it is making the give up on you. You can see the flaws in the idea if you allow the notion of separation to be considered on a county level (I would argue strongly that the where I am from is culturally as distanced from Edinburgh as it is from London), it becomes laughable and not because it is less viable.This brings me to a second point that is along the same note. It is the seething underbelly of the national pride, the one Mr Salmond has barred his party from going near. It is the “fuck the English” attitude. I will admit that it has not taken any main stage, but I think you would be dishonest to say that it doesn’t run strong in the veins of much of the Yes support. I have been told of examples of the English before union repeatedly as part of a way to convince me towards independence. One such fellow informed me of how he could never forgive the English for what they did to his ancestors in the 1300’s. Allow me get side-tracked for just a second. Are you aware of how many time you need to fold a piece of paper before it would be long enough to reach the moon? It’s 42, just 42. Granted it is not physically possibly but it is a good example of just out of hand the exponential growth of doubling things can get. It is similar with your family tree, every time you go back you double it (like folding paper), 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, etc. going only 1,000 years back in time you would have 500 billion ancestors[8], but since only a bit under 108 billion[9] people are estimated to have ever lived there is obviously going to be a lot of people appearing multiple times in your family tree.The point I’m trying to get at is that when you go back that far it is not your ancestors against the English. It is your ancestors against your ancestors. It is statistically as impossible as it can get that you are not descended from everyone in Britain that has a surviving family line from that time ( and yes, that included King Edward Balliol). The History of England belongs to you just as much as it does any born and bred Londoner and the history of Scotland belongs to them also.I do believe that Scotland could survive independently (though nowhere near as well as the Yes campaign claims). But I see no reason to throw in the towel on issues that are difficult just because I am fortunate enough to live in a country that is politically divers. I feel discouraged when old rivalries are brought up from the past when unity binds us more tightly than rivalry has any right to separate us.[1] http://www.un.org/en...ers/about.shtml[2] http://www.g8.utoron...what_is_g8.html[3] http://www.g20.utoro...ca/members.html[4] Sorry, wiki for this one as they are unofficial categorizations. (A) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_three (B) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4_(EU) © http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G6_(EU)[5] http://www.nato-pa.i...p?SHORTCUT=3068[6] http://www.un.org/di...r/NPTtext.shtml[7] http://www.longfinan...15March2014.pdf[8] http://www.stat.yale...ors-Article.pdf[9] http://www.prb.org/P...vedonEarth.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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