Rangers' Current Form - 5th

[outlaw69uk 123]

indeed, posting negative stats, well done

Some others,

Best defence in the league

Best strike force in the league

But, they dont matter

Just as irrelevant.

The only stat that matters is the one which places us 7 points behind Celtic. There is no way to twist that into a positive.

really? Its december. How far ahead were we aaround this time last season, and, who won the league?

You are all wrong, the ONLY stat that matters, is the final league table in May, everything else before then is fluid

Riiiight, so until the final table is published in May we shouldn't be either positive or negative about our form?

There is being optimistic mate but in the last couple of days you have proved that your optimism is based on absolutely nothing. Can you honestly tell me one solid reason for the Rangers support to be positive about our title chances?

Because i could give you a thousand reasons to doubt them.

Of course you can, doesnt make it right haha

You said, no way to twist it into a positive right? Ok, we avent lost the league yet this year, is that not positive? That means, we have a chance. How have I proved my optimism has been based on nothing in the last couple of days? Confused by that. Simple fact of the matter is, I am a Bear, through good times and bad, and, believe we should not be fighting with each other, not helping those who want to take us down achieve their goals, and have the best interests of the club in our hearts. Its not optimism as such, more steeped in reality, and, I dont see the point of being negative, where does it get you?

So, since I am part of the Rangers support, you think I should do what? just give up? go along with whoever says the most negative things and agree? Maybe I should go along to Ibrox and boo every misplaced pass, you know? Get behind the team?

Am not having a personal pop at you mate, just sick to death of fans ripping the club to bits. Nobody seems to have an interest in supporting, encouraging, in these difficult times, and, its a bit like, "with friends like these, who needs enemies", so, i am sure you could give me a thousand reasons to doubt them, but, why would you want to?

Firstly, i am not negative about our club i am realistic and at the moment the bad far outweighs the good from Boardroom level right down to the training ground.

I go to every game, near or far, to watch Rangers because i love the club and don't begrudge doing so. But with that i expect at least a couple of things. I expect my team to be consistently the best in the country as the name Rangers demands it of them, i expect our players to show heart and commitment while on the pitch or on the training ground and i expect a manager in charge who is capable of co-ordinating a successful title challenge.

At the present moment none of my expectations are being met and therefore i ask questions as to why. I don't systematically and predictably criticise the club after every point further we fall behind Celtic. I prefer to look at why the points are being dropped and why we are failing to challenge a Celtic side who are hardly bursting with talent.

The reason i say that you have been proven as being unnaturally positive is because of the lack of reasons you give for being positive. You are quite content to demean other posters for being "negative" while not providing any opposition to it. If "we haven't lost the league yet" is your biggest point of optimism then i think my point been vindicated.

Perhaps it is down to my belief system then? it is a very British thing to place negatives higher than positives, always has been. People are as happy as they want to be.

I have the same goals as you when it comes to the club, but, the ting I have to add is, we play a part in the success, and, we need to take some of the flak as well. We are part of the club. The atmosphere we dont generate any more has to have an effect. Yes, I agree its partially down to the manner in which the team is performing, or rather, not performing a lot of the time, but, for me at least, when my team is underperforming, I want to encourage them, gee them up and spur them on to victory. That is how it used to be, whereas now, we go silent, or groan at every pass. I cant be the only person to see that is a bit wrong? Or, at least, feel thats a bit wrong?

Demean? A bit harsh really! The likes of yourself, Muff, Danny, DB etc, all actually debate, and, as you have put here, reasoning for how you feel, thats fine. There are others who do not, they just moan, and, when questioned, generally ignore. I dont understand how some people can get so depressed about things that havent happened, or which might happen.

My optimism, if you want to call it that, is my version of reality, much as yours is leaning towards the negative aspects. Its december, and, leagues arent won in December, generally thats a fact. If they were, then, we would be the incumbent SPL champions but we are not. People saying the league is over etc confuse me. Are Celtic that good? We have no belief in ourselves? We won at parkhead and they went 12 games unbeaten after that, while we dropped points. Can you say for sure we wont do the exact same?

[outlaw69uk 123]

indeed, posting negative stats, well done

Some others,

Best defence in the league

Best strike force in the league

But, they dont matter

Naw they dont matter now, best defence conceeded a goal to the best team in scotland so not the best defence in the league, and defo not the best strikers in the league either they cant score against the best team in scotland but they can score against the shite of scotland eg. Hamilton, Hibs,etc.

so naw they don't Matter.

But the other stat that you said was negitive that does matter just shows how much worse we are getting. and also show That Rangers might never be the same team again.

Oh come on, seriously? It shows that, as with everything, it is cyclic in nature. Sometimes you are on top, sometimes you are not. Is it as bad now as it was when Celtic were almost doing 9 in a row? or winning the European cup? No, not even close. Although some are getting all worked up that we might not win the league for 6 years and they will do it again

Well i wasn't about when they were doing 9 in a row but im Around this time when they are going to get 9 in A Row.

You actually believe we wont win anything for the next 6 years? On what grounds?

[Guest The Brown Brogue]

Oh come on, seriously? It shows that, as with everything, it is cyclic in nature. Sometimes you are on top, sometimes you are not. Is it as bad now as it was when Celtic were almost doing 9 in a row? or winning the European cup? No, not even close. Although some are getting all worked up that we might not win the league for 6 years and they will do it again

What do you mean by Celtic almost doing 9 in a row?

I would argue it is just as bad now as it was for the older bears on here who can remember them having won the first 3 of their 9. I suppose back then there were also those who didn't think it could happen, but guess what, it did. Why are you having a go at people who fear the worst? If Celtic win the title this season will you be saying 'its ok, its only 4' then the year after 'its ok its only 5'

Honestly, you you seem to not want to hear a bad word about the club and its management staff and in most threads I've seen recently you have a right go at anyone who posts anything negative about the clubs current position and direction, of course thats your viewpoint and you're entitled to it, but I am intrigued to know just exactly what your breaking point actually is or would be?

I suppose its about perspective then, perhaps? Its my outlook on things, why work yourself up into a lather over something that MIGHT happen? The only thing that tends to occir then, is, what you convinve yourself will happen. Like the guy who constantly goes on about his partner leaving him because he isnt good enough, eventually, she will! I generally dont have a go, as you put it, but, I am disappointed in how people are treating each other of late, since, surely we should all have the same goal? a successful Rangers we can all be proud of. Thats what I want, and, included in that, is a supprt we can be proud of, like the ones I took my young English nephews to Derby to experience the other year. 15,000 bears, in full voice, great spirits, and, a thing of wonder to see.

I think "we" are over-reacting to everything these days, and acting very badly. The excuse is "we dont know what we can sing anymore, so, thats why there is no atmosphere at ibrox"? That, is an excuse, everyone knows what they can sing, since, 1 song is banned (very sadly and wrongly imho) and, another it is advised we dont sing, and, given how recent it was, shouldnt really be a big loss.

Its not that i dont want to hear a bad word, its, the manner in which some people express things, does that make sense? All the gtf threads, the fat cunt cokehead threads, things like that, I personally think its pathetic, just my opinion, but, hardly a good way to carry on. no?

Define breaking point mate? Not sure where you are going with that? What am I supposed to do? This is my second lowest time as a bear, the worst was freezing cold beside a few others at ibrox in the 80s, watcing a very poor team seriously underperforming. Nowadays, its less the team, but the fans that I find upsetting, because I think WE can have a bigger influence on the team than we seem to believe, the away support are still pretty damn good

The direction of the club is a big concern for me, perhaps that is a reason I am maybe on my soapbox about our behaviour at the moment. i will explain. We dont need "Murray must go" things happening, because, he wants to go, we should be slightly grateful that his last act will be a good one, in not selling us to a Romanov type, or one who will completely strip the club. The way the support are at the moment, is not making us an attractive purchase, and, the whole thing about stayingaway in numbers, would make that worse. If we were a club with a great vocal supprt again, the kind discussed by players and manager s who have played here, perhaps on Euro nights, someone will want to buy us, or at least more likely a good buyer would be found. When that happens, chances are, everything people are complaining so vocally about will happen, they will get what they want. Murray will be gone, so will Smith most likely, and a number of the players we dont hold in much regard.

That make any sense?

I think the issue is now that an internet forum such as this is the only place where a disgruntled fan can vent some frustrations about the team. If you sit in the pub with your mates after the game then chances are the 3 or 4 of you will have the same opinion, and that will be that. If they do it at a game they are vilified for not getting behind the team and not being one of these mythical 'true fans'.

I would never have a go at fans for rightfully getting angry and demanding change, after all as cliched as it sounds they are the ones paying for the bunch of no marks masquerading as Rangers players right now.

My point about reaching breaking point means the point where you yourself say enough is enough and start to show genuine concern about the clubs position rather than say its ok because things could be worse. You say that you are concerned about the direction of the club, so are the many voices who are beginning to think that real action may be required, whether this is done in the form of protests or not I dont know, or even what effect this would have, but I certainly don't believe that, as you state, the club is more likely to be sold if the fans sing a bit louder at Ibrox, our issues run far deeper than that.

[Danny 9]

for the hell of it

why was the original stat posted? To continue the gloom?

You're clearly a glass half full type of chap.

Way I see it I want to see the whole picture, not just the stuff that makes me feel better.

Which is why I didn't believe Mr Cuellar's lies about him staying here for life.

Reality often sucks, but living in a bubble to escape it is a bit pointless because one day the real shit catches up with you.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Oh come on, seriously? It shows that, as with everything, it is cyclic in nature. Sometimes you are on top, sometimes you are not. Is it as bad now as it was when Celtic were almost doing 9 in a row? or winning the European cup? No, not even close. Although some are getting all worked up that we might not win the league for 6 years and they will do it again

What do you mean by Celtic almost doing 9 in a row?

I would argue it is just as bad now as it was for the older bears on here who can remember them having won the first 3 of their 9. I suppose back then there were also those who didn't think it could happen, but guess what, it did. Why are you having a go at people who fear the worst? If Celtic win the title this season will you be saying 'its ok, its only 4' then the year after 'its ok its only 5'

Honestly, you you seem to not want to hear a bad word about the club and its management staff and in most threads I've seen recently you have a right go at anyone who posts anything negative about the clubs current position and direction, of course thats your viewpoint and you're entitled to it, but I am intrigued to know just exactly what your breaking point actually is or would be?

I suppose its about perspective then, perhaps? Its my outlook on things, why work yourself up into a lather over something that MIGHT happen? The only thing that tends to occir then, is, what you convinve yourself will happen. Like the guy who constantly goes on about his partner leaving him because he isnt good enough, eventually, she will! I generally dont have a go, as you put it, but, I am disappointed in how people are treating each other of late, since, surely we should all have the same goal? a successful Rangers we can all be proud of. Thats what I want, and, included in that, is a supprt we can be proud of, like the ones I took my young English nephews to Derby to experience the other year. 15,000 bears, in full voice, great spirits, and, a thing of wonder to see.

I think "we" are over-reacting to everything these days, and acting very badly. The excuse is "we dont know what we can sing anymore, so, thats why there is no atmosphere at ibrox"? That, is an excuse, everyone knows what they can sing, since, 1 song is banned (very sadly and wrongly imho) and, another it is advised we dont sing, and, given how recent it was, shouldnt really be a big loss.

Its not that i dont want to hear a bad word, its, the manner in which some people express things, does that make sense? All the gtf threads, the fat cunt cokehead threads, things like that, I personally think its pathetic, just my opinion, but, hardly a good way to carry on. no?

Define breaking point mate? Not sure where you are going with that? What am I supposed to do? This is my second lowest time as a bear, the worst was freezing cold beside a few others at ibrox in the 80s, watcing a very poor team seriously underperforming. Nowadays, its less the team, but the fans that I find upsetting, because I think WE can have a bigger influence on the team than we seem to believe, the away support are still pretty damn good

The direction of the club is a big concern for me, perhaps that is a reason I am maybe on my soapbox about our behaviour at the moment. i will explain. We dont need "Murray must go" things happening, because, he wants to go, we should be slightly grateful that his last act will be a good one, in not selling us to a Romanov type, or one who will completely strip the club. The way the support are at the moment, is not making us an attractive purchase, and, the whole thing about stayingaway in numbers, would make that worse. If we were a club with a great vocal supprt again, the kind discussed by players and manager s who have played here, perhaps on Euro nights, someone will want to buy us, or at least more likely a good buyer would be found. When that happens, chances are, everything people are complaining so vocally about will happen, they will get what they want. Murray will be gone, so will Smith most likely, and a number of the players we dont hold in much regard.

That make any sense?

I think the issue is now that an internet forum such as this is the only place where a disgruntled fan can vent some frustrations about the team. If you sit in the pub with your mates after the game then chances are the 3 or 4 of you will have the same opinion, and that will be that. If they do it at a game they are vilified for not getting behind the team and not being one of these mythical 'true fans'.

I would never have a go at fans for rightfully getting angry and demanding change, after all as cliched as it sounds they are the ones paying for the bunch of no marks masquerading as Rangers players right now.

My point about reaching breaking point means the point where you yourself say enough is enough and start to show genuine concern about the clubs position rather than say its ok because things could be worse. You say that you are concerned about the direction of the club, so are the many voices who are beginning to think that real action may be required, whether this is done in the form of protests or not I dont know, or even what effect this would have, but I certainly don't believe that, as you state, the club is more likely to be sold if the fans sing a bit louder at Ibrox, our issues run far deeper than that.

Thats a fair point, and, the issues do run deeper, but, they wont change until the club is sold, as, what many view as the main culprit will still be here, regardless of what, he, and we, feel about it. The other option is, he walks, calls in his money and boom, we are gone!

The 3 or 4 wouldnt talk to each other, or those around them, with the same lack of respect shown on forums, thats the main thing I take issue with of late. Coupled with the fact that, those being highly vocal about it, generally arent attempting to do something about it, but, just complaining. I believe there is a difference. Oleg, for example, did a great job a while back, and, took some action, with some success. That type of thing is fantastic, doubly so, because it was Rangers fans defending Rangers fans, brilliant, and, something we should do more of.

Its simplistic, I agree, but, sing a bit louder, help the team get winning. A successful team is more attractive than a failing one dont you agree?

[outlaw69uk 123]

for the hell of it

why was the original stat posted? To continue the gloom?

You're clearly a glass half full type of chap.

Way I see it I want to see the whole picture, not just the stuff that makes me feel better.

Which is why I didn't believe Mr Cuellar's lies about him staying here for life.

Reality often sucks, but living in a bubble to escape it is a bit pointless because one day the real shit catches up with you.

Indeed, if you have read, or know about the "secret" then you will understand my perspective on things

As Mark Twain said, "If you think you can, or, If you think you can't, You are correct"

I am not in a bubble, I can see the problems, but, things will get better, that is the way ofthe world. Murray wants out, we want him out, it will happen. When it does, I would say, Smith will be gone also, as will most ofthe players we dont like/want here, and, the world will look far different. Its all about patience, something we are Rangers fans, are NOT renowned for haha

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

indeed, posting negative stats, well done

Some others,

Best defence in the league

Best strike force in the league

But, they dont matter

Just as irrelevant.

The only stat that matters is the one which places us 7 points behind Celtic. There is no way to twist that into a positive.

really? Its december. How far ahead were we aaround this time last season, and, who won the league?

You are all wrong, the ONLY stat that matters, is the final league table in May, everything else before then is fluid

Riiiight, so until the final table is published in May we shouldn't be either positive or negative about our form?

There is being optimistic mate but in the last couple of days you have proved that your optimism is based on absolutely nothing. Can you honestly tell me one solid reason for the Rangers support to be positive about our title chances?

Because i could give you a thousand reasons to doubt them.

Of course you can, doesnt make it right haha

You said, no way to twist it into a positive right? Ok, we avent lost the league yet this year, is that not positive? That means, we have a chance. How have I proved my optimism has been based on nothing in the last couple of days? Confused by that. Simple fact of the matter is, I am a Bear, through good times and bad, and, believe we should not be fighting with each other, not helping those who want to take us down achieve their goals, and have the best interests of the club in our hearts. Its not optimism as such, more steeped in reality, and, I dont see the point of being negative, where does it get you?

So, since I am part of the Rangers support, you think I should do what? just give up? go along with whoever says the most negative things and agree? Maybe I should go along to Ibrox and boo every misplaced pass, you know? Get behind the team?

Am not having a personal pop at you mate, just sick to death of fans ripping the club to bits. Nobody seems to have an interest in supporting, encouraging, in these difficult times, and, its a bit like, "with friends like these, who needs enemies", so, i am sure you could give me a thousand reasons to doubt them, but, why would you want to?

Firstly, i am not negative about our club i am realistic and at the moment the bad far outweighs the good from Boardroom level right down to the training ground.

I go to every game, near or far, to watch Rangers because i love the club and don't begrudge doing so. But with that i expect at least a couple of things. I expect my team to be consistently the best in the country as the name Rangers demands it of them, i expect our players to show heart and commitment while on the pitch or on the training ground and i expect a manager in charge who is capable of co-ordinating a successful title challenge.

At the present moment none of my expectations are being met and therefore i ask questions as to why. I don't systematically and predictably criticise the club after every point further we fall behind Celtic. I prefer to look at why the points are being dropped and why we are failing to challenge a Celtic side who are hardly bursting with talent.

The reason i say that you have been proven as being unnaturally positive is because of the lack of reasons you give for being positive. You are quite content to demean other posters for being "negative" while not providing any opposition to it. If "we haven't lost the league yet" is your biggest point of optimism then i think my point been vindicated.

Perhaps it is down to my belief system then? it is a very British thing to place negatives higher than positives, always has been. People are as happy as they want to be.

I have the same goals as you when it comes to the club, but, the ting I have to add is, we play a part in the success, and, we need to take some of the flak as well. We are part of the club. The atmosphere we dont generate any more has to have an effect. Yes, I agree its partially down to the manner in which the team is performing, or rather, not performing a lot of the time, but, for me at least, when my team is underperforming, I want to encourage them, gee them up and spur them on to victory. That is how it used to be, whereas now, we go silent, or groan at every pass. I cant be the only person to see that is a bit wrong? Or, at least, feel thats a bit wrong?

Demean? A bit harsh really! The likes of yourself, Muff, Danny, DB etc, all actually debate, and, as you have put here, reasoning for how you feel, thats fine. There are others who do not, they just moan, and, when questioned, generally ignore. I dont understand how some people can get so depressed about things that havent happened, or which might happen.

My optimism, if you want to call it that, is my version of reality, much as yours is leaning towards the negative aspects. Its december, and, leagues arent won in December, generally thats a fact. If they were, then, we would be the incumbent SPL champions but we are not. People saying the league is over etc confuse me. Are Celtic that good? We have no belief in ourselves? We won at parkhead and they went 12 games unbeaten after that, while we dropped points. Can you say for sure we wont do the exact same?

True, us Brits are a dour bunch.

Your point about the fans is a valid one, we simply do not vocally support the team as we used to. But remember for the last 5 years we have been used to either complete dominance or relative success. Now that we are having to endure a baron run of three season on the bounce without a title the supporters, may of whom are not old enough to remember consistant failure, have become more than a little apathetic towards to club and the players. During the John Greig years we were stuggling to draw more than 20'000 to Ibrox on matchdays yet at the present moment Ibrox is filled to near capacity every match.

So maybe in a sense you are doing the loyalty of our support a bit of a disservice there. Our supporters live in fear of being arrested an banned if we dare sing songs which offend our opponents or any jobsworth steward, so i can understand the lack of singing at games nowadays compared to previous eras. Granted we need to be more pro-active in creating new songs or chants, i cringe every time i hear people making new songs as they often only wind-up the tims or lack any real imagintion or uniqueness.

I think it was Jiminez who said in another thread that the Celtic support outsung us for the first time in recent memory and i have to agree. I don't like to admit it but i was impressed in a sense with the imagination they have shown in incorporating more continental chants into their songbook. I know it is not popular to give that lot any credit but it is due on this occasion. Especially when the home support's level of backing was a few isolated choruses of Derry's Walls every now and again.

But i also believe that the role of the support shouldn't be overstated. At the end of the day the players we have are good enough to beat any SPL team yet they are consistently failing to do so. That is not down to the support, it is the attitude of the players, the training regime and the team selection which are the main factors in this.

[Guest The Brown Brogue]

Oh come on, seriously? It shows that, as with everything, it is cyclic in nature. Sometimes you are on top, sometimes you are not. Is it as bad now as it was when Celtic were almost doing 9 in a row? or winning the European cup? No, not even close. Although some are getting all worked up that we might not win the league for 6 years and they will do it again

What do you mean by Celtic almost doing 9 in a row?

I would argue it is just as bad now as it was for the older bears on here who can remember them having won the first 3 of their 9. I suppose back then there were also those who didn't think it could happen, but guess what, it did. Why are you having a go at people who fear the worst? If Celtic win the title this season will you be saying 'its ok, its only 4' then the year after 'its ok its only 5'

Honestly, you you seem to not want to hear a bad word about the club and its management staff and in most threads I've seen recently you have a right go at anyone who posts anything negative about the clubs current position and direction, of course thats your viewpoint and you're entitled to it, but I am intrigued to know just exactly what your breaking point actually is or would be?

I suppose its about perspective then, perhaps? Its my outlook on things, why work yourself up into a lather over something that MIGHT happen? The only thing that tends to occir then, is, what you convinve yourself will happen. Like the guy who constantly goes on about his partner leaving him because he isnt good enough, eventually, she will! I generally dont have a go, as you put it, but, I am disappointed in how people are treating each other of late, since, surely we should all have the same goal? a successful Rangers we can all be proud of. Thats what I want, and, included in that, is a supprt we can be proud of, like the ones I took my young English nephews to Derby to experience the other year. 15,000 bears, in full voice, great spirits, and, a thing of wonder to see.

I think "we" are over-reacting to everything these days, and acting very badly. The excuse is "we dont know what we can sing anymore, so, thats why there is no atmosphere at ibrox"? That, is an excuse, everyone knows what they can sing, since, 1 song is banned (very sadly and wrongly imho) and, another it is advised we dont sing, and, given how recent it was, shouldnt really be a big loss.

Its not that i dont want to hear a bad word, its, the manner in which some people express things, does that make sense? All the gtf threads, the fat cunt cokehead threads, things like that, I personally think its pathetic, just my opinion, but, hardly a good way to carry on. no?

Define breaking point mate? Not sure where you are going with that? What am I supposed to do? This is my second lowest time as a bear, the worst was freezing cold beside a few others at ibrox in the 80s, watcing a very poor team seriously underperforming. Nowadays, its less the team, but the fans that I find upsetting, because I think WE can have a bigger influence on the team than we seem to believe, the away support are still pretty damn good

The direction of the club is a big concern for me, perhaps that is a reason I am maybe on my soapbox about our behaviour at the moment. i will explain. We dont need "Murray must go" things happening, because, he wants to go, we should be slightly grateful that his last act will be a good one, in not selling us to a Romanov type, or one who will completely strip the club. The way the support are at the moment, is not making us an attractive purchase, and, the whole thing about stayingaway in numbers, would make that worse. If we were a club with a great vocal supprt again, the kind discussed by players and manager s who have played here, perhaps on Euro nights, someone will want to buy us, or at least more likely a good buyer would be found. When that happens, chances are, everything people are complaining so vocally about will happen, they will get what they want. Murray will be gone, so will Smith most likely, and a number of the players we dont hold in much regard.

That make any sense?

I think the issue is now that an internet forum such as this is the only place where a disgruntled fan can vent some frustrations about the team. If you sit in the pub with your mates after the game then chances are the 3 or 4 of you will have the same opinion, and that will be that. If they do it at a game they are vilified for not getting behind the team and not being one of these mythical 'true fans'.

I would never have a go at fans for rightfully getting angry and demanding change, after all as cliched as it sounds they are the ones paying for the bunch of no marks masquerading as Rangers players right now.

My point about reaching breaking point means the point where you yourself say enough is enough and start to show genuine concern about the clubs position rather than say its ok because things could be worse. You say that you are concerned about the direction of the club, so are the many voices who are beginning to think that real action may be required, whether this is done in the form of protests or not I dont know, or even what effect this would have, but I certainly don't believe that, as you state, the club is more likely to be sold if the fans sing a bit louder at Ibrox, our issues run far deeper than that.

Thats a fair point, and, the issues do run deeper, but, they wont change until the club is sold, as, what many view as the main culprit will still be here, regardless of what, he, and we, feel about it. The other option is, he walks, calls in his money and boom, we are gone!

The 3 or 4 wouldnt talk to each other, or those around them, with the same lack of respect shown on forums, thats the main thing I take issue with of late. Coupled with the fact that, those being highly vocal about it, generally arent attempting to do something about it, but, just complaining. I believe there is a difference. Oleg, for example, did a great job a while back, and, took some action, with some success. That type of thing is fantastic, doubly so, because it was Rangers fans defending Rangers fans, brilliant, and, something we should do more of.

Its simplistic, I agree, but, sing a bit louder, help the team get winning. A successful team is more attractive than a failing one dont you agree?

I agree of course, but the flip side of it is that the team also has to give the team something to shout about, its hard to sit there for 90 minutes and cheer on players who don't appear to show the same appetite and will to win as the 50,000 fans around them. In an ideal world of course this wouldn;t be the case and the jersey should be cheered no matter what, but in reality its hard to watch Whittaker pull out of a 50-50 challenge, Adam hoist another free kick into row Z or McGregor launch another kick out of play and not be somewhat pissed off.

The Rangers support is as fragmented now as I've seen in my lifetime, and unfortunately the situation seems to be getting worse as year on year we stumble from one crisis into the next.

You are right, there should be respect shown on here to everybody's opinion, whether we agree with it or not, and things shouldn't degenerate into namecalling and personal abuse. We all have the clubs best interests at heart, what is needed just now is a spark to galvanise that and bring the support back together again. I just can't see that happening under the present regime and without sounding melodramatic I think the club is in a very perilous state right now with fans feeling isolated, let-down and alienated by the very people who should be defending us to the hilt. I hope its not the case that when a point comes when the club needs the support more than ever, they don't find out its already too late.

[outlaw69uk 123]

True, us Brits are a dour bunch.

Your point about the fans is a valid one, we simply do not vocally support the team as we used to. But remember for the last 5 years we have been used to either complete dominance or relative success. Now that we are having to endure a baron run of three season on the bounce without a title the supporters, may of whom are not old enough to remember consistant failure, have become more than a little apathetic towards to club and the players. During the John Greig years we were stuggling to draw more than 20'000 to Ibrox or matches yet at the present moment Ibrox is filled to near capacity every match.

So maybe in a sense you are doing the loyalty of our support a bit of a disservice there. Our supporters live in fear of being arrested an banned if we dare sing songs which offend our opponents or any jobsworth steward, so i can understand the lack of singing at games nowadays compared to previous eras. Granted we need to be more pro-active in creating new songs or chants, i cringe every time i hear people making new songs as they often only wind-up the tims or lack any real imagintion or uniqueness.

I think it was Jiminez who said in another thread that the Celtic support outsung us for the first time in recent memory and i have to agree. I don't like to admit it but i was impressed in a sense with the imagination they have shown in incorporating more continental chants into their songbook. I know it is not popular to give that lot any credit but it is due on this occasion. Especially when the home support's level of backing was a few isolated choruses of Derry's Walls every now and again.

But i also believe that the role of the support shouldn't be overstated. At the end of the day the players we have are good enough to beat any SPL team yet they are consistently failing to do so. That is not down to the support, it is the attitude of the players, the training regime and the team selection which are the main fators in this.

Perhaps that is it mate, I remember the consistent failure, so, perhaps I see the current state from a slightly different perspective to some.

I think Jim and I were discussing that fact the other night, and, credit where its due, they have done that and they outsang us in our house, which is almost unforgivable, and, we need to as well, definately. We are, and should be, better at creating the songs.

I agree abt the team, we should be better. On paper, we are better, we are just not doing it, and, who knows why. Even the bizarre selections should still beat the like of St Mirren. We may have an effect on the players attitude, but, they should be able to handle the pressure. I do think we have the makings of a good young squad, that just needs a few additions, an, a few new ideas

[GovanFrontGers 1]

indeed, posting negative stats, well done

Some others,

Best defence in the league

Best strike force in the league

But, they dont matter

Get into the real world, of course they dont count we are 7 points behind the tims.