govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I am not offended by the content of songs, but we are constantly criticised for it - we can change that easily This is where you are continually going wrong.We cannot change that easily. We are not being constantly criticised because we sing a song. Wake up ffs! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Anyway, I'm off, but I'll leave you all with this thought for the day...link in the thread to join doesn't work... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rfc#1. 1,877 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 At least I've not got any Plague-Blood in me! Aye but i'll likely be immune if it makes a comeback. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gers51 2 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 "We'll sing it as we used to sing it, fifty thousand strong"- works for me on so many different levels. Me too, these lines are perfect. Surely all it would take is a massive run of cheap flyers handed out with tickets and on entry to ground printed with these 'new' words. If endorsed by the club what more can the club do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 link in the thread to join doesn't work...ach. old thread from the old server. Here you go mate...http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=279774&page=1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 This is where you are continually going wrong.We cannot change that easily. We are not being constantly criticised because we sing a song. Wake up ffs!singing a song with the word fenian in it makes for a very easy target - why given them the ammunition, surely if we smarten up the accusations won't be so easy - can we stop playing the victim card here? I thought it was them that were paranoid? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Me too, these lines are perfect. Surely all it would take is a massive run of cheap flyers handed out with tickets and on entry to ground printed with these 'new' words. If endorsed by the club what more can the club do?You would think so. But getting 'the club' officially engaged in anything is never easy.Many thousands would not support the new words, and would continue to sing whatever they pleased.But if enough people sung the sanitised version, and it got picked up by a microphone, then from then on it would be the official version, and would be perfectly defendable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 singing a song with the word fenian in it makes for a very easy target - why given them the ammunition, surely if we smarten up the accusations won't be so easy - can we stop playing the victim card here? I thought it was them that were paranoid?Only if you accept their claim that the word Fenian means Catholic.It doesn't, no matter how often they tell you it does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Only if you accept their claim that the word Fenian means Catholic.It doesn't, no matter how often they tell you it does.it's one of those ones where technically you are correct, but i would say there is definitely a colloquialism at play with it too.I hate seeing headlines about our clubs fans being deemed sectarian, whether or not you will agree with the technical definitions, I would much prefer to limit anything dubious and raise the profile of the fans as friendly and accepting of everyone, if we can start to do it by changing a couple of words in a song then i say lets do it. would be nice to see a headline about us in a football sense (but not like after a hearts game!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 it's one of those ones where technically you are correct, but i would say there is definitely a colloquialism at play with it too.I hate seeing headlines about our clubs fans being deemed sectarian, whether or not you will agree with the technical definitions, I would much prefer to limit anything dubious and raise the profile of the fans as friendly and accepting of everyone, if we can start to do it by changing a couple of words in a song then i say lets do it. would be nice to see a headline about us in a football sense (but not like after a hearts game!)I completely understand your sentiments, and once shared many of them.The point I've been skirting around, and not saying quite explicitly enough is that the songs in question are not the issue. If we stop singing them, they will simply find new untruths to level against us about something else.Certain people want to see us suffer in any and every way possible. If faking offence helps support that, they'll be there with their wailing and gnashing of teeth.Look at the complaints against our remembrance stuff. They're out to get us, and if we sit back and let them dictate things, they will completely destroy us. That's all they crave.People with such hatred don't really get upset at being called names. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 it's one of those ones where technically you are correct, but i would say there is definitely a colloquialism at play with it too.yes, the colloquialism being that the definition has extended to mean anyone who supports the cause of Irish Republican Terrorism on British Soil.If I accept them banning me using the word fenian, then I am accepting their claim that it means catholics - and that would mean I was a religious bigot (which would be particulary hard for the atheist son of a catholic woman to take! ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 yes, the colloquialism being that the definition has extended to mean anyone who supports the cause of Irish Republican Terrorism on British Soil.If I accept them banning me using the word fenian, then I am accepting their claim that it means catholics - and that would mean I was a religious bigot (which would be particulary hard for the atheist son of a catholic woman to take! )heathen! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I completely understand your sentiments, and once shared many of them.The point I've been skirting around, and not saying quite explicitly enough is that the songs in question are not the issue. If we stop singing them, they will simply find new untruths to level against us about something else.Certain people want to see us suffer in any and every way possible. If faking offence helps support that, they'll be there with their wailing and gnashing of teeth.Look at the complaints against our remembrance stuff. They're out to get us, and if we sit back and let them dictate things, they will completely destroy us. That's all they crave.People with such hatred don't really get upset at being called names. I don't disagree - the problem for me isn't just the perma-offended over the city, it's the fact that lots outside the of have bought into it, we can make a simple move and change the perception of us in the mainstream media, it's not letting them dictate things, we can get on the front foot and show them how to do it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 and repeatedly I have said, it's not about anyone else! we can keep trying to deflect it away, or we could just deal with it.Nope what you have done is repeatedly avoided discussing the prejudicial behaviour towards both our club and its supporters by the judiciary and the football authorities and thus if anyone is guilty of deflection it is you.If we want to have a serious discussion, not only as a fan base, but with those outside our club regarding sectarianism there needs to be parity. You cant make people see reason or sense when they are continually being subjected to unfair and unjust treatment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Moral high ground pish, all I want is a level playing field. Exactly. Once everyone acknowledges Celtic's long standing problem with sectarianism we can then have a serious debate. Right now people are just targeting Rangers and painting us as the lone bad guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Nope what you have done is repeatedly avoided discussing the prejudicial behaviour towards both our club and its supporters by the judiciary and the football authorities and thus if anyone is guilty of deflection it is you.If we want to have a serious discussion, not only as a fan base, but with those outside our club regarding sectarianism there needs to be parity. You cant make people see reason or sense when they are continually being subjected to unfair and unjust treatment.so you want me to change what I am talking about because you don't want to admit that there is an issue just because another club won't admit that they also have an issue?!would you not prefer to be part of the solution than part of the problem? lead by example? show we can change the public perception of us through our own actions and then show them up for not following suit Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 so you want me to change what I am talking about because you don't want to admit that there is an issue just because another club won't admit that they also have an issue?!would you not prefer to be part of the solution than part of the problem? lead by example? show we can change the public perception of us through our own actions and then show them up for not following suitWe have led by example. Our club has done more to combat sectarianism than any other club in Scotland.We are now getting beaten with a stick which is not appllied to others in the same circumstances.Its not about what other clubs admit to/dont admit to - its about how the authorities are failing to apply evenly or with parity the legislation whch has been drawn up to deal with the problem Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 We have led by example. Our club has done more to combat sectarianism than any other club in Scotland.We are now getting beaten with a stick which is not appllied to others in the same circumstances.Its not about what other clubs admit to/dont admit to - its about how the authorities are failing to apply evenly or with parity the legislation whch has been drawn up to deal with the problemdo you think there is an issue within our support of sectarianism? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 do you think there is an issue within our support of sectarianism?What do you define as sectarianism ?Do you class the word "h**" as sectarian ?Would you describe the singing of songs in support of proscribed terrorist organisations as sectarian ?Do you think someone shouting "FTQ" is equally as guilty of sectarianism as someone shouting "FTP" ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 What do you define as sectarianism ?Do you class the word "h**" as sectarian ?Would you describe the singing of songs in support of proscribed terrorist organisations as sectarian ?Do you think someone shouting "FTQ" is equally as guilty of sectarianism as someone shouting "FTP" ?as before I am not talking about anything other than our own support, and I was asking you - it's not about my definition of sectarian, it's about yours. I'll rephrase:Do you think we have an issue within the support that you would deem sectarian? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 as before I am not talking about anything other than our own support, and I was asking you - it's not about my definition of sectarian, it's about yours. I'll rephrase:Do you think we have an issue within the support that you would deem sectarian?So you cant set out a clear and concise definition of what "sectarianism" means and what type of behaviour constitutes itI thought that would have been a pretty important foundation stone in order to progress any subsequent discussion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billmcmurdo 462 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 For sectarianism read Protestantism.Sectarianism is a construct used to condition people in the PUL community that it is unacceptable to fight for what they believe in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 So you cant set out a clear and concise definition of what "sectarianism" means and what type of behaviour constitutes itI thought that would have been a pretty important foundation stone in order to progress any subsequent discussion.Most of the folk D'artagnan knows are octogenarian, not sectarian Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 13,319 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Most of the folk D'artagnan knows are octogenarian, not sectarian Ageism Alert ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_r_sole 366 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 So you cant set out a clear and concise definition of what "sectarianism" means and what type of behaviour constitutes itI thought that would have been a pretty important foundation stone in order to progress any subsequent discussion.I didn't say that but I am questioning your perception here, not mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.