beararse

Genius

Hopefully this is better received than my Cigarettes and Alchohol anthem .... and no, I’m not Andy Cameron as suggested recently ? We're on the march with Coulibally He’s going to stop them getting 9 Then we'll fuck the Tims right up When we win the Scottish Cup 'Cause Rangers are the greatest football team

We are never going to win the EL 5 times in a row mate....think about it ?

Posted this on a similar thread. Thought it might be of interest on this one too...then again ? i'm just genuinely interested in what effort is actually required by Scottish Football to get us up the coefficient table. So, Greece are currently 15th and the first team to be allowed 2 teams in the CL qualifiers. They have a score of 28.600. Scores are based on the last 5 years performance so they have averaged 5.72 per year. Scotland have averaged 3.725 per year these past 5 years (which is probably a reflection on where we have been as a club) and currently have a coefficient of 18.625 In order for Scotland to have a chance at getting 2 teams in the Champions League we need to improve our yearly average by a minimum of just under 2 (1.995 to be exact). The coefficient is the points tally of all Scottish clubs divided by the number of clubs. For example, a coefficient of 3.75 means the Scottish Football Association have scored on average of 15 points (ie 3.75x4) year on year. Scottish football needs to attain a coefficient average in excess of 7.715 per year for 5 consecutive years in order to overtake Greece, or whoever may be there at that time (ie their score 28.6000 minus ours 18.625 then divide by 5 and add whats left onto their average). I have assumed that the required coefficient to achieve 15th wont change over the period. In order to achieve this turnaround the following is the bare minimum that would need to be achieved EVERY single year for 5 years : SPL Champion - Reach CL group stages (4 points) 1 Win (2 points) 1 draw (1 point) = 7 points (there are no points for CL qualification rounds as you drop to the Europa League when knocked, unless its the play off stage) SPL Runner Up - Reach EL group stages (7.5 points) + 1 win(2 points) + 1 draw (1 point) + qualify for knock out stage (3 bonus points) = 13.5 points SPL 3rd Place - Reach EL play off elimination (7.5 points) SPL 4th Place - Reach second qualifying round elimination (3 points) Total Points gained in single campaign = 33 UEFA Association Coefficient = 33 divided by No. of Scottish teams = 7.75. Obviously there are various permutations as to how 7.75 can be achieved but it gives a flavour of where we are. Bottom line, it is very unlikely we will ever have two teams in the Champions League let alone be in the position of having to negotiate only one play off round EDIT: Made an error in my calcs (see below if you are remotely interested) 46 minutes ago, Brubear said: I follow most of that apart from why Scotland needs and average of 7.75 per year which as a total over a rolling 5 years would be 38.75 when Greece are 15th on 28.6 points and you are assuming the target to obtain 15th doesn't change. Surely we need to get an average of 5.72 per year the same as Greece which with 4 clubs contributing is a total of 22.9 per year not 33. It is not as daunting a challenge as you were calculating which is why Scotland were 10th at one time. Based on results so far this year we have moved from 26th to 23rd, although I accept this could go up or down yet depending on how ourselves, Hibs and celtic do versus the other countries around us in the rankings from now on in. ................................... Well spotted Brubear I was convinced I hadn't fucked but i've checked and i have ? partly because i forgot it was compounded figures year on year so we gain on 15th annually (and partly because i'm a total fanny) It would therefore take 3 years if we scored a combined 33 points and not 5....but that still relies on the teams achieving the same level of success i mentioned earlier. I very much doubt we'd get more than 1 team managing that success, let alone the 4 of them. I'm still referring to 33 points as we'd probably need a higher score than the 28.6 as UEFA have changed the scoring system slightly, and it appears there are more points available in the EL compared to previously (you used to earn 5.25 points by reaching the EL group stages. You will now earn 10, assuming you entered the competition at the first qualifying round). Champions League points remain unchanged for the Group stages but you no longer score points in the qualifying rounds I'm guessing UEFA thought this would make it more interesting for the nations and teams outwith the top 10 countries. Still want the Tims to get pumped in Europe.

Not trying to be a dick, i'm just genuinely interested in what effort is actually required by Scottish Football to get us up the coefficient table. So, Greece are currently 15th and the first team to be allowed 2 teams in the CL qualifiers. They have a score of 28.600. Scores are based on the last 5 years performance so they have averaged 5.72 per year. Scotland have averaged 3.725 per year these past 5 years (which is probably a reflection on where we have been as a club) and currently have a coefficient of 18.625 In order for Scotland to have a chance at getting 2 teams in the Champions League we need to improve our yearly average by a minimum of just under 2 (1.995 to be exact). The coefficient is the points tally of all Scottish clubs divided by the number of clubs. For example, a coefficient of 3.75 means the Scottish Football Association have scored on average of 15 points (ie 3.75x4) year on year. Scottish football needs to attain a coefficient average in excess of 7.715 per year for 5 consecutive years in order to overtake Greece, or whoever may be there at that time (ie their score 28.6000 minus ours 18.625 then divide by 5 and add whats left onto their average). I have assumed that the required coefficient to achieve 15th wont change over the period. In order to achieve this turnaround the following is the bare minimum that would need to be achieved EVERY single year for 5 years : SPL Champion - Reach CL group stages (4 points) 1 Win (2 points) 1 draw (1 point) = 7 points (there are no points for CL qualification rounds as you drop to the Europa League when knocked, unless its the play off stage) SPL Runner Up - Reach EL group stages (7.5 points) + 1 win(2 points) + 1 draw (1 point) + qualify for knock out stage (3 bonus points) = 13.5 points SPL 3rd Place - Reach EL play off elimination (7.5 points) SPL 4th Place - Reach second qualifying round elimination (3 points) Total Points gained in single campaign = 33 UEFA Association Coefficient = 33 divided by No. of Scottish teams = 7.75. Obviously there are various permutations as to how 7.75 can be achieved but it gives a flavour of where we are. Bottom line, it is very unlikely we will ever have two teams in the Champions League let alone be in the position of having to negotiate only one play off round. .... Fuck, i wish the kids would go back to school and i can get back to work ?

Lets face it, we're all dicks ? Group hug?

You sure? What is classed as decent? The majority of Scottish clubs qualifying for the group stages of what ever contest they are in? It will take an enormous turnaround in our nation's collective club performances to get to the position where a Scottish team enters the competition at final play off round of the CL (which is what i was looking at in my original post) as there are 13 nations positioned above us before we get to the 2 guaranteed play off spots offered to the 11th and 12th ranked associations. Surely we have to outperform ALL Greek, Dutch, Croatian, Swiss, Austrian and Czech teams consistently over a number of years to get there? Can't see that happening, can you? We need to get up to 15th on the association coefficient table in order to get a 2nd team in the CL qualification stages. Maybe then we can start to chip away but if you add into the mix that we don't want the Tims to progress and vice versa then the notion of a collective movement is well and truly buggered. As an aside we still need to overt turn the 15th placed association's 9.975 lead (it's currently Greece) and given they are posting yearly points around 5.5 and the best we have managed is 4.35. Thats quite a task considering they will still keep earning points.

The whole set up is a crock of shit anyway. Champions should go straight into the Group Stages, regardless of the quality of their League. All non-champion clubs that are in the competition can then fight it out and by all means apply a scoring system to weed out the truly awful. If they are worthy, they should walk it in to the Group Stages. That would help spread UEFA's pot of money around Europe more evenly, improve the standard throughout (in theory at least) and result in a far better competition long term.

Cheers .... that us talking again? ?

Regardless of how they've worked out the points system I suppose you have to weigh up the actual benefit/advantage to us as a club... If 'them' getting to the group stages of the Europa league means we only skip the first round of champs/europa league qualification then id rather take my chances against a time we should be thumping anyway and hope 'they' get fucked out of Europe at every turn.

I came across that but it was all starting to hurt my head to be honest ? Still need to make up 12.138 points Whatever way its carved up, as a nation we would need to outperform 13 other nations to be in with a chance of starting the competition at the the final play off stage. Can't see that happening anytime soon.

Posted earlier in this thread....its a July start for evermore UNLESS we win the Europa League and are parachuted into the CL Group OR a Scottish team qualifies for 4 more CL Group Stages than all the 13 nations above us who have better association coefficients .... and that ain't ever going to happen.

Wondered what combined Scottish Club European performances were required in order to get us up the pecking order and drop in to the final CL play off stage so had a gander at UEFAs website. It's fucking well nigh impossible from what I can determine. The entry level of the CL is now based on the Association's UEFA coefficient. Scotland is currently sitting in 26th place. You need to be 11th and 12th to guarantee entry to the final play off round. The Czech Republic and Switzerland are currently 11th and 12th. They have coefficients of 31.063 and 32.075 respectively. Scotland's is 18.925. There are no points available for winning any or all of the CL qualification rounds. You get 4 points for Group Stage qualification. So, a Scottish team would have to qualify for the CL Group stages 4 times (in a row or otherwise) AND hope that the 11th and 12th placed associations fail to qualify at the same time AND hope that the other associations place 13th - 25th don't boost their coefficients with a run in either competition AND we would still have a play off to negotiate. Points earned from the EL (which are approximately half those of the CL) also have to be accounted for so Scottish teams would need to excel in that too to stand any fucking chance. Bottom line is, the only way a Scottish club can GUARANTEE CL Group Stage participation is by winning the Europa League (and knowing our luck UEFA would change the fucking rules if we did) Basically, it doesn't make the slightest difference if other Scottish teams get beat so fuck them all. EDIT: it's VERY complicated. Someone has just pointed out that the Scottish teams point tally is divided by the number of teams representing their league. So, if we earn say 16 points as a collective, its divided by 4 (i think thats right). Its all relative, regardless of how its calculated. It is a nations collective performance v's other nations so we still have to better the 13 nations above us to get a sniff of a play off for the Champs League Group stage.

‘Easy come easy go will you let me go Bismillah! No we will not let you go - let him go’

I think you will find that millennial acting non-millennial's tend not to give a fuck when they feel contented ?

I honestly don't know what you are getting at here. Is it because i said it was 'quite possibly the most enjoyable start to a season in my lifetime'? To me, it is. End of last season i dreaded the start of this one yet I cannot think of any other season over the past 40 years where there has been such a seismic shift in my (and fellow Bears) anticipation. You could argue the Souness era comes close or perhaps betters it but the expectation was there. We had signed big names. Souness himself was a superstar. Butcher was the English captain. Robert and Woods were well established internationalists at the top of their game. We entered that season expecting to destroy everyone we played. That Rangers team lost 2 of its first 3 games in the League. This Rangers team has no superstars and no well known faces and yet has far exceed even the wildest expectations we could have had after the Caxainha/Murty shambles. This Rangers team is currently undefeated in 7 competitive matches (10 games if you include friendlies). If enjoying that more than any other start to the season is acting like a millennial then fair enough, i am more than happy to do so.

47

eh? im lost now..

Ah, I see. I think I still struggle to meet the criteria ?

Yep, joined the forum when I was 6.

Point is, that was when we expected to have better ones. We've hoped and ultimately suffered these last two seasons . I doubt a single fan on this forum could have expected to feel like this positive so early into the season.

? Already have, and it’s goes something like this ‘is it my......

Keep up.... 1690 + 9 = 1699 45+ 9 = 54 ?

By the far the best start to a season IMO and I’m 47 years old....its not always about winning! It’s the distance travelled from where we were last year in a very short period of time which also happens to be coinciding with them falling short. 1. Unbeaten in Europe and unbeaten in the League despite playing with ten men for the vast majority of both League games. 2. Players plucked from relative obscurity and so far performing well beyond our expectations. 3. Purchasing of players on the periphery of an international squad which reached the final of the World Cup. 4. A retail deal more in our favour. Positivity abound. Lets go!

THE most enjoyable start to a season in my lifetime ?