opportunityknox

Good to see Boss's article reach a national broadcaster, no matter what their agenda may be, as it gives RM some serious crediblity, as the credibility of ££ plummets due to it's incestious relationship with the Trust, and Duffy by proxy. Good work Boss. More power to your pen. I hope this site attracts a good few new people over this. You deserve it.

Not sure who that is aimed at but there is a difference between gratuitous digs and valid questions which can open the debate up to let us all see what is proposed and why we should back it. I'd contend not asking such questions would be more disheartening than anything else. Why is it when people ask valid questions, the Trust and it's supporters deflect from the questions by attacking people as "anti trust"? We should be told.

Fantastic article Boss, and I'd suggest leaflets are made up and distributed at Ibrox, to educate people being misled about this character. About Fan Ownership, caution is required, and it may not necassarily be the holy grail some think it is Some interesting points here worth noting about the current fashion in certain quarters for Rangers to adopt fan ownership along the lines of "The Barca Model". The author of the piece, Graham Hunter is a Scottish Journalist based in Spain, and knows what he's talking about. ----------- Model of fan ownership is an alluring one Fan ownership would tighten the link between Rangers and their supporters Graham Hunter Increasingly it seems it’s not enough that the whole world wants to play football like FC Barcelona – great numbers of fans apparently want to “own” their clubs and ape the structure that produced the reigning European champions. Dr Rogan Taylor, with his Share Liverpool FC scheme aimed at 100,000 fans each investing in a share priced £5000 in order to buy the club back from its feuding American owners and run Liverpool independently, has thus far been the most articulate and organised agitator. Now it seems that some feel this line of thinking offers an answer to Rangers’ currently brutal debt situation and a way forward from club decisions being taken by the bank. So is it myth or is it magic, this one-man, one-vote ownership of what, currently, is the most feted club in the world? Those who attempt to replicate the model need to keep in mind the maxim that all that glisters isn’t necessarily gold close to hand – but the members, or socios, at Barca wouldn’t have it any other way. Owning the club and making it do what Barca does are, however, two different things Graham Hunter Of course the most basic point of being a socio is that it’s the route to buying the most comprehensive season tickets and being assured of thrilling to the magic of Leo Messi, Xavi, Andres Iniesta and Zlatan Ibrahimovic up to three times a week – in the league, cup and Champions League. But the reason that Barca’s membership structure is being lauded right now is that your socio status, something which currently costs €155 (£139), means that you part own and part control the club you love. Under certain basic conditions – age, length of membership, clean record as a socio – you are able to vote for the president once every four years (soon to be every five), censure him, remove him in emergency situations, approve or denounce his actions at an AGM, stand for the board and – the big one – stand to be president yourself. Of course, for the Camp Nou fighting fund the fact that around 172,000 socios pay that €155 every year means an influx of over €26m arrives before season tickets are even bought. Just having members earns Barca over €26m per anum. For those who currently watch their club, say Rangers, saddled with debt, potentially being asset-stripped, potentially being owned by just any old entrepreneur who happens to have the cash – these socio benefits are the gold at the end of the rainbow. One example is that the current Barca president, Joan Laporta, was no more than an ordinary member with a law practice and a deep love of Johan Cruyff just over 13 years ago. Cruyff was brutally sacked in 1996 and within 12 months Laporta, backed by equally erudite and angry socios, decided to form a protest group called Elefant Blau (Blue Elephant) which agitated, protested, campaigned at two elections (failing) and then, from nowhere, stormed to win the 2003 presidency. Albeit that Laporta is a remarkable, ambitious, well-connected man, the gestation period from him being an ordinary member to the beginning of a presidential reign which is, unquestionably, now the most glorious since its 1899 foundation, was six short years. No wonder agitated, intelligent, committed fans view the Camp Nou structure as some sort of footballing nirvana. It’s worth pointing out, though, that Barca has become a brand name for this type of structure when, in fact, there are a number of other clubs around Europe run in the same way – notably Real Madrid. Accountability is the realisable dream. The voting mass usually have a choice of presidents, the presidential candidates must lay a manifesto before the electorate, statutes can only be changed by majority vote and there are EGM structures which, in theory, should allow a properly constructed motion from the socio mass to pull the emergency brakes if either the football, economic or legal facets of the club run out of control If the Laporta rise to power isn’t convincing enough then perhaps two instances at Madrid are. Back in 2000 Lorenzo Sanz was president at the Bernabeu and his team had just won their second European Cup in the space of two years. Elections came around and there shouldn’t have been a greater shoo-in since Churchill stood for re-election, now at the head of the Tory party, after helping win World War II. As with Winnie, the black dog was sitting on Sanz’s shoulder by the end of polling, though, because it turned out that the league football hadn’t been convincing enough, that the socios believed Sanz was cooking the books and that they were seduced by Florentino Perez’s claim that he could erase the then historical debt and build the world’s best team. The socios spoke and, to coin a phrase, they were the people. Then, last December, Ramon Calderon presented the books at the AGM fearing there were activists in the socio mass who were about to expose truths he would prefer to have kept hidden. Calderon effectively rigged the voting by allowing in socios who were not eligible to vote, changed the voting structure from counted ballots to a show of hands and allowed bully-boy tactics whereby his imported supporters shouted down and even threatened ordinary socios. He was censured, hounded and forced to resign. But even at Barca, sadly, all that glisters is not gold. Despite the socio regime, Laporta inherited a club which was within a couple of months of not being able to pay staff salaries. And the presidential system is the same one which, for years, was mocked in the UK when coach after coach was sacked at Italian or Spanish clubs. Back in Madrid, Florentino Perez went through five managers in the last two and a half years of his penultimate reign – socio nirvana? During his current reign Laporta has dropped his trousers in anger at police security checks forced upon him in the middle of Barcelona airport, faced and won, by the narrowest of margins, a motion of censure which could have unseated him, seen nearly 20 board members walk out on him, made numerous political declarations which are felt to have furthered his career rather than the reputation of FC Barcelona, and been caught using a private detective firm to spy on his own board members. Socio nirvana? Each club is “managing” debts which oscillate between €250m and €500m, debt being the very plague which is causing such damage to both Liverpool and Rangers right at the moment. But not only are Madrid and Barcelona owned by their socios, they are massive, lucrative, aspirational brand names in the world of sport, something which neither Liverpool nor Rangers can match. Fan ownership looks seductive and has enormous benefits in tightening rather than severing the umbilical link between clubs and those who support them but the reason Barca play such stunning football and sell their television rights for hundreds of millions of euros is that they produce astonishing players, serve up sensational soccer and are brilliantly coached. Fan groups who want to buy Liverpool, Rangers or any other such footballing institution would do well to remember that owning the club and making it do what Barca currently does are two very different things.

There may be good thinking people at the club, but their hands are tied by the tan man.

21 votes for McCulloch. The comedians must be on tonight.

I'm actually finding it rather upsetting that someone would seek to disrupt this thread. All Rangers fans should be celebrating today. This is not about Vanguard, RM, FF or any other site, it's about one of Rangers founders, and how to give the man a resting place worthy of a founder of the greatest football club in the world.

That's not enough I'm afraid, although it did make many a Bear smirk. Spiers should not be allowed the freedom of Ibrox or Auchenhowie until he can show some balance in his reporting. By my reckoning, by the time he's balanced it out, he'll be at retirement age.

You are correct in that first statement. As for the rest, well we'll just have to see if next year's AGM is the same. Time will tell.

As an aside from this discussion. If you are the same OpportunityKnox that has articles published in No1 then I'd like to say those are a brilliant read! Jeez oh Rabbit! Don't tell him that, you'll only encourage him to write more. Only kidding of course, his articles are top notch. Nice to see Rangers Media have some of their great articles included in the NO1 zine too. Keep up the good work RM! Everyone loves having their ego massaged

Best Thing for Rangers to do is to get CCTV of the alleged incident. If it didn't happen they have Spiers bang to rights. They can then publicly humiliate the rheptile, and will have an excellent case for removing his press privileges.

Indeed. Mauriceedu08 is Andy. Oh, and VB was attacked at the same time as this very forum. That is all.

Thanks, but I'm interested in what Jbear has to say

Well said friend, well said. It needs to be understood that this frustration lies behind most criticism of hose currenly mis-managing the RST. Cheers mate I have no agenda against the RST, I'm not a member and have no interest in joining at present. Some people on here are too quick to label anyone who is critical of the RST of having an agenda against the RST/FF/Dingwall. They need to realise that while some may indeed have an agenda, the majority really just want an RST that we can be proud of and that can have real impact on the club. The only cloak and dagger stuff going on is on this thread, There are people with a pathological hatred of all things Dingwall/FF, and it is their intention is to damge the trust most of them are not members of the trust and are therefore not entitled to be privvy to trust info, but hey ho why let that stop them, they throw their allegations around which are without substance, and as we all know when you chuck mud some of it sticks. The tarriers must be delighted by their behaviour Who is this post directed at?

You need to change job. Who do you work for, Shellikfitbaclub? Did you question your colleagues on their opinions on the Hooped Horrors' song choices, or meekly say nothing? Tell them tomorrow that UEFA has no jurisdiction over SPL matches, and if they did, they might be interested in the Green'n'Grey's "extremist ideological propaganda"

Hey Norman, if you're looking in (and I suspect you, or a spy may be), read the following two articles about you. Hey, it might inflate your ego, but I'd love to see you address the points raised. http://www.followfollow.com/news/loadnews....W&id=466909 http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?o...11&Itemid=1

Do I need to pay more to do a "hard but fair" tackle on McGarvey? :-)

Were you one of the 26 who attended?

Yes, you're not having a good day, are you? I don't know the percentage of members that live in the West of Scotland is the simple answer. Perhaps if I can find the time I'll try to work it out. Regardless of when we have the AGM, it will not suit everyone. It isn't really getting later each year. In 2006 it was on 1st October. People unable to attend have the option of submitting a question or proposing a motion either by e-mail or to our PO Box. There have been none submitted by e-mail so far, I'm not sure about the PO Box yet. Neither, it would seem, are you. Or the RST Website is hopefully inaccurate. "August 2006 News Archive 23 August 2006 Trust AGM Reminder Can all our members please note this year's AGM will take place on Saturday 09 September in Partick Burgh Halls from 10.30am (for a 11am start) till 1pm (Rangers play Falkirk at Ibrox that day KO: 3pm)." I'd already checked the dates before asking the question. You can pick the AGM any time you want next year, because I won't be renewing. By the looks of it, I won't be the only one. Bar one or two trouble makers, most people (including myself) are genuine in raising concern about certain issues. If you can't take people at face value and do your best to be civil, then it doesn't inspire me to renew. I honestly can't remember, the minutes say it was 1st October so somebody has made a mistake. Hardly a hanging offence. What made you join/ renew this year and then decide not to renew next year? Why not go on the RST website and complain? I also hear that a £20 Grand profit has been wiped in the space of a year. It doesn't instil any confidence in the Trust. Out of interest, what profit did the Trust declare this year if any? I believe they held an annual dinner which is usually a big contributer to the funds, so I would expect there should be some profit? I believe this year returned a loss, but cotw would be best placed to answer.

Yes, you're not having a good day, are you? I don't know the percentage of members that live in the West of Scotland is the simple answer. Perhaps if I can find the time I'll try to work it out. Regardless of when we have the AGM, it will not suit everyone. It isn't really getting later each year. In 2006 it was on 1st October. People unable to attend have the option of submitting a question or proposing a motion either by e-mail or to our PO Box. There have been none submitted by e-mail so far, I'm not sure about the PO Box yet. Neither, it would seem, are you. Or the RST Website is hopefully inaccurate. "August 2006 News Archive 23 August 2006 Trust AGM Reminder Can all our members please note this year's AGM will take place on Saturday 09 September in Partick Burgh Halls from 10.30am (for a 11am start) till 1pm (Rangers play Falkirk at Ibrox that day KO: 3pm)." I'd already checked the dates before asking the question. You can pick the AGM any time you want next year, because I won't be renewing. By the looks of it, I won't be the only one. Bar one or two trouble makers, most people (including myself) are genuine in raising concern about certain issues. If you can't take people at face value and do your best to be civil, then it doesn't inspire me to renew. I honestly can't remember, the minutes say it was 1st October so somebody has made a mistake. Hardly a hanging offence. What made you join/ renew this year and then decide not to renew next year? Why not go on the RST website and complain? I never said it was a hanging offence. We all make mistakes. Even me. That said, not renewing is not one of them. Last year I still had some belief in the Trust. I now have none. My understanding is that only 10 board members turned up to the AGM (thereby partially justifying my thoughts on the timing of it), with only 16 other members turning up, of whom 3 were elected to the board, meaning there were only 13 non board members present by the end of the meeting. With that level of interest, perhaps its time that the Trust called it a day. I also hear that a £20 Grand profit has been wiped in the space of a year. It doesn't instil any confidence in the Trust. If you think I take any pleasure out of this you'd be mistaken.

Yes, you're not having a good day, are you? I don't know the percentage of members that live in the West of Scotland is the simple answer. Perhaps if I can find the time I'll try to work it out. Regardless of when we have the AGM, it will not suit everyone. It isn't really getting later each year. In 2006 it was on 1st October. People unable to attend have the option of submitting a question or proposing a motion either by e-mail or to our PO Box. There have been none submitted by e-mail so far, I'm not sure about the PO Box yet. Neither, it would seem, are you. Or the RST Website is hopefully inaccurate. "August 2006 News Archive 23 August 2006 Trust AGM Reminder Can all our members please note this year's AGM will take place on Saturday 09 September in Partick Burgh Halls from 10.30am (for a 11am start) till 1pm (Rangers play Falkirk at Ibrox that day KO: 3pm)." I'd already checked the dates before asking the question. You can pick the AGM any time you want next year, because I won't be renewing. By the looks of it, I won't be the only one. Bar one or two trouble makers, most people (including myself) are genuine in raising concern about certain issues. If you can't take people at face value and do your best to be civil, then it doesn't inspire me to renew.

It's a season long loan and he can't be recalled. There is also no "gentleman's agreement" that he shouldn't play against us. That said, he was that rusty he wasn't a great option anyway, and he needs games. Hopefully next season he will be back.

Both should play. Rothen on the left, Naismith up front with Lafferty. In my humble opinion.

What doesn't offend timmy?

You're on top form today cooper. I'm wrong again. Answer me this. What percentage of members live in the West of Scotland? For many, the September weekend isn't suitable, regardless of the pedantics over who has what holiday where. I'm not expecting you to make any great concessions, but to at least accept that it's a possibility that people will be unable to make it, and that it would be a good idea to avoid this weekend in future? The AGM seems to get later every year aswell? In 2004 it was in July, 2005 it was at the end of August English Bank Holiday (which some in Scotland get too), and has been gradually creeping year on year. Just seems odd, that's all. Presumably minutes will be sent out to members?

The Monday is a bank holiday across the UK to my knowledge.