The McBeath ceremony in Lincoln

[TheMoonlighter 499]

As discussed earlier via PM with people on here i'm totally in the dark about this ceremony.

It would appear many are in the same boat.

Can someone please inform me , because i'm still in control of my faculties, when i received this invite ?

Was it a verbal invitiation, did i get sent a PM, email, have i missed a personal invitation in the post ?WHO sent this ''invite'' when, and exactly what did it say ?

Can someone post a copy of what and when it was sent please ?

I had to ask Admin on here if the actual event had passed.

I haven't got a clue what people are referring to regarding this.

[MisterC 12,487]

So I'm guessing the demands for openness and transparancy from others will stop now will they?

No

Thought not. Good to see hypocrisy is alive and well.

[Frankie 505]

Stop fishing Frankie! :-D

Not fishing mate...

Seriously, other than posts on RM, have these people been contacted and invited formally?

[MrSifter 181]

So I'm guessing the demands for openness and transparancy from others will stop now will they?

No

Thought not. Good to see hypocrisy is alive and well.

I have no idea about the ceremony mate. Just pulling your leg. It would be nice to think VB will have been working to get Club reps there and as many supporters as the graveyard can reasonably accommodate. I am not and never have been a VB member.

[MisterC 12,487]

So I'm guessing the demands for openness and transparancy from others will stop now will they?

No

Thought not. Good to see hypocrisy is alive and well.

I have no idea about the ceremony mate. Just pulling your leg. It would be nice to think VB will have been working to get Club reps there and as many supporters as the graveyard can reasonably accommodate. I am not and never have been a VB member.

Fair do's mate, apologies for the misunderstanding there. Of course I can understand space is at a premium but it would be good if there was a way of publicising it so it wasnt just those on VB who could go.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Google 'William McBeath memorial in Lincoln'. First link is for Vanguardbears and there is a statement from February 2010. It states that ALL Rangers fans will be welcome at a proposed ceremony. Further clarification from VB on this subject would be good, he there is anything to tell at this point in time.

'

[Allanger 625]

I pm'd someone the other day about this ceremony as I am completely in the dark about it. Still haven't received a reply so none the wiser

[caseyjones 3,009]

Stop fishing Frankie! :-D

Not fishing mate...

Seriously, other than posts on RM, have these people been contacted and invited formally?

I don't know mate, as I have no connection to either warring party!

[MrSifter 181]

Google 'William McBeath memorial in Lincoln'. First link is for Vanguardbears and there is a statement from February 2010. It states that ALL Rangers fans will be welcome at a proposed ceremony. Further clarification from VB on this subject would be good, he there is anything to tell at this point in time.

Good post, the VB seem like a decent philanthropic group, I've yet to see them on here tin rattling. Saddened to read the below, although given the number of websites out there I can't be sure who they are referring to.

"From the start, as evidenced by the wording on our original announcement on Vanguard Bears, we did this, not for any kudos or glory but "on behalf of Rangers fans throughout the world". Regretfully, it has come to our attention that on another Rangers fans' forum a thread created by a VB poster and using our photographs was heavily censored to remove any mention of Vanguard Bears and by implication allowed their membership to assume that they had been the instigators of the actions taken by Vanguard Bears.

Any posts from people knowing the truth were chopped and the poster banned until the creator of the thread contacted them asking to put posters straight or remove the thread, sadly they chose the latter. Indeed the very word "Vanguard Bears" is automatically deleted from that forum and a ban issued.

However, even today, on other forums there are Rangers fans posting misinformation about the chain of events. It seems that certain people elsewhere feel that they have a divine right to claim the founders as their own or we should only commemorate or remember them when they deem it fit to do so. The same people who had us believe that purchasing the lease for Williams plot would be too complicated despite knowing the derelict condition it lay in for some time, it would appear they didn’t even try.

We would happily work alongside or support any Bear who wants to do something to honour our founders, that’s all our duties as Rangers fans.

We at Vanguard Bears should feel anger. We do not. We do however share a feeling of disbelief and disappointment that another website used our actions to score cheap points and used this remarkable tribute to one of our founders to do so. That the whole Rangers family couldn't get behind the work we did saddens us greatly, this was an historic event, this was a time for Rangers fan to unite and rejoice and if ever there was a time for dignity, this was it.

That individuals not connected with Vanguard Bears sought to somehow claim credit, reflected or otherwise should be to their eternal shame. They have indeed shown their true colours."

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Bitter.

[MrSifter 181]

Bitter.

Indeed, whatever website they are talking about must be very bitter to behave in such a manner.

[Frankie 505]

I don't know mate, as I have no connection to either warring party!

It seems clear enough to me then that while a small ceremony is planned, a date and guest-list hasn't been put together yet. These things take time to organise well so I'm sure work is ongoing in the background.

Hopefully this will be a good opportunity for the lads behind the superb McBeath work and the lads behind the superb Founders stuff to get together and enjoy what is sure to be a proud occasion.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Thanks for posting that Mr Sifter. I'm on my phone, so I'm unable to post any links.

I referred to that very thread on FF in an earlier post.

[Frankie 505]

Good post, the VB seem like a decent philanthropic group, I've yet to see them on here tin rattling. Saddened to read the below, although given the number of websites out there I can't be sure who they are referring to.

I think VB rightly posted across the community to raise funds for the headstone via donations from forum members.

We also have posts about the WRC, No1 fanzine, singing sections and others selling items for the benefit of bears who wish to use these services.

I wouldn't call that tin-rattling but simply the sharing of information to benefit both the project and the contributors.

[caseyjones 3,009]

I don't know mate, as I have no connection to either warring party!

It seems clear enough to me then that while a small ceremony is planned, a date and guest-list hasn't been put together yet. These things take time to organise well so I'm sure work is ongoing in the background.

Hopefully this will be a good opportunity for the lads behind the superb McBeath work and the lads behind the superb Founders stuff to get together and enjoy what is sure to be a proud occasion.

Two great bits of work about the same subject and it has caused so much bad feeling between the camps.

It's a strange thing.

[Frankie 505]

Bitter.

With respect mate - you've made your annoyance clear about people demeaning the Founders project but when a clear example of FF doing the same to a similar initiative, it is acceptable?

VB and FF have obvious problems with each other - that is clear and disappointing. But, as posted earlier, the issues are not in one direction only so I think it is unfair to suggest as much.

[Allanger 625]

Good post, the VB seem like a decent philanthropic group, I've yet to see them on here tin rattling. Saddened to read the below, although given the number of websites out there I can't be sure who they are referring to.

I think VB rightly posted across the community to raise funds for the headstone via donations from forum members.

We also have posts about the WRC, No1 fanzine, singing sections and others selling items for the benefit of bears who wish to use these services.

I wouldn't call that tin-rattling but simply the sharing of information to benefit both the project and the contributors.

Jebus, all this has been going on and I genuinely didn't notice it.My brain seems to have been in the off position. I must pay more attention. Well done to all who put in the work

[caseyjones 3,009]

Bitter.

This applies to both, or just the one?

[Frankie 505]

Two great bits of work about the same subject and it has caused so much bad feeling between the camps.

It's a strange thing.

It isn't strange at all. Essentially we have a personality clash between a few individuals which others latch on to because they may feel similarly aggrieved over something else.

It's a nonsense that such division exists (and is perpetuated) when fan opinions (online at least) are broadly the same across all forums - be it FF, RM, VB or wherever - on most important subjects.

What we need is a wee bit of humility and leadership here.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Maybe Moonlighter can help, he got an invite!

As discussed earlier via PM with people on here i'm totally in the dark about this ceremony.

It would appear many are in the same boat.

Can someone please inform me , because i'm still in control of my faculties, when i received this invite ?

Was it a verbal invitiation, did i get sent a PM, email, have i missed a personal invitation in the post ?WHO sent this ''invite'' when, and exactly what did it say ?

Can someone post a copy of what and when it was sent please ?

I had to ask Admin on here if the actual event had passed.

I haven't got a clue what people are referring to regarding this.

Hmmm, which is it?

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Bitter.

This applies to both, or just the one?

What was posted, it struck me as bitter and confrontational.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

As far as i'm aware there was limited spaces available so it was opened to VB members first given that it is a VB trip. But the demand from members of that site has been better than anticipated.

I don't see the problem here. This is all getting beyond a joke to be honest.

[MrSifter 181]

I think VB rightly posted across the community to raise funds for the headstone via donations from forum members.

We also have posts about the WRC, No1 fanzine, singing sections and others selling items for the benefit of bears who wish to use these services.

I wouldn't call that tin-rattling but simply the sharing of information to benefit both the project and the contributors.

Fantastic news Frankie. I'm glad VB involved all the communities and were allowed to do so. It's great when we can unite as we are unstoppable.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

As far as i'm aware there was limited spaces available so it was opened to VB members first given that it is a VB trip. But the demand from members of that site has been better than anticipated.

I don't see the problem here. This is all getting beyond a joke to be honest.

Fair comment BITC, but your post began with 'As far as i'm aware'.

MisterC can speak for himself, but I think that is the point of the thread.

Nobody has to begin a Founders Trail thread with 'As far as i'm aware'.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Maybe Moonlighter can help, he got an invite!

As discussed earlier via PM with people on here i'm totally in the dark about this ceremony.

It would appear many are in the same boat.

Can someone please inform me , because i'm still in control of my faculties, when i received this invite ?

Was it a verbal invitiation, did i get sent a PM, email, have i missed a personal invitation in the post ?WHO sent this ''invite'' when, and exactly what did it say ?

Can someone post a copy of what and when it was sent please ?

I had to ask Admin on here if the actual event had passed.

I haven't got a clue what people are referring to regarding this.

Hmmm, which is it?

Rather selective when quoting me. I followed that up with "Seriously though" which was meant to imply that I was saying it tongue in cheek. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I don't know if any invitation was extended, other than what was on here, as I have already stated above.