legalbeagle 3,734 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Just because Murray wasn't as much of a crook in the legal sense doesn't mean he didn't f*ck us over.It's something that probably still needs to be judged in the fulness of time.In terms of the debt we were in when he left, it wasn't particularly bad at all, the potential debt caused by the EBT situation was the main problem. Undertaking that scheme could be regarded as reckless, but he was following expert advice which proved to be accurate.The decision to sell to Whyte is clearly and unequivocally wrong, regardless of whatever pressures he was under to do so from Lloyds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's something that probably still needs to be judged in the fulness of time.In terms of the debt we were in when he left, it wasn't particularly bad at all, the potential debt caused by the EBT situation was the main problem. Undertaking that scheme could be regarded as reckless, but he was following expert advice which proved to be accurate.The decision to sell to Whyte is clearly and unequivocally wrong, regardless of whatever pressures he was under to do so from Lloyds.The debt he built up was unsustainable, that's how Lloyds took control in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncybear 43 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It's something that probably still needs to be judged in the fulness of time.In terms of the debt we were in when he left, it wasn't particularly bad at all, the potential debt caused by the EBT situation was the main problem. Undertaking that scheme could be regarded as reckless, but he was following expert advice which proved to be accurate.The decision to sell to Whyte is clearly and unequivocally wrong, regardless of whatever pressures he was under to do so from Lloyds.Your hero could always have volunteered to absolve the club of blame and to pick up any bills arising since as it was all an MIH initiative.He didn't though, did he? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The debt he built up was unsustainable, that's how Lloyds took control in the first place.This still annoys me.The debt was easily sustainable, and sanctioned by the bank, until Lloyds, in response to the banking crisis, decided to move the goalposts.Imagine you were halfway through paying your mortgage at £600 a month, and the bank turned round and said, "actually, we now want £30 grand by the end of the month."Outrageous behaviour from the bank, and deserves to be properly investigated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think Hugh Adam was a ill old man who was taken advantage off by the likes of thimmy thompson and used as part of the anti-Rangers propaganda machine, his views on David Murray were spot on however and he was a good employee of the club for a long time. I dont bear any grudge towards him.I don't think anything shows the kind of low life scum that our enemies are better than how they were happy to use a sick old man practically on his death bed to get at us Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 This still annoys me.The debt was easily sustainable, and sanctioned by the bank, until Lloyds, in response to the banking crisis, decided to move the goalposts.Imagine you were halfway through paying your mortgage at £600 a month, and the bank turned round and said, "actually, we now want £30 grand by the end of the month."Outrageous behaviour from the bank, and deserves to be properly investigated.Murray paid the price for constant borrowing, you sound as if you're letting him off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Murray paid the price for constant borrowing, you sound as if you're letting him off.No. Murray paid the price for a bank being a shit.The debt went from £30m to £18m in 1 year - that is more than sustainable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legalbeagle 3,734 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The debt he built up was unsustainable, that's how Lloyds took control in the first place.It really was still down to the potential debt, Lloyd's would have assumed they would be getting very little if the case went against us.Without the HMRC case we wouldn't have been in this position, as the actual debt was manageable and we were maintaining success while doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legalbeagle 3,734 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Your hero could always have volunteered to absolve the club of blame and to pick up any bills arising since as it was all an MIH initiative.He didn't though, did he?No, he didn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianBacon 2,088 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 As an aside, a well known 'historical' figure in the Rangers family has claimed that, quote, "No-one from Rangers was at Hugh's funeral".If true I find that astonishing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legalbeagle 3,734 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 As an aside, a well known 'historical' figure in the Rangers family has claimed that, quote, "No-one from Rangers was at Hugh's funeral".If true I find that astonishing.Certainly is quite sad, despite any views about his comments last year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouncybear 43 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 As an aside, a well known 'historical' figure in the Rangers family has claimed that, quote, "No-one from Rangers was at Hugh's funeral".If true I find that astonishing.Agreed. Poor show if true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATP-FOREVER 5,231 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 So do I.His daughter says those interviews were deliberate, done by his own free will, and enabled him to speak the truth. I'm not sure who to believe - you or his daughter."he found the strength and the will to give interviews on what he considered to be inappropriate practices at the Club many years ago. He did this ... out of a desire for the truth"You're probably right mate - but it was a stupit decision to be interviewed by anyone with an ulterior agenda. Even at that stage, someone like Traynor would have been ideal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 It really was still down to the potential debt, Lloyd's would have assumed they would be getting very little if the case went against us.Without the HMRC case we wouldn't have been in this position, as the actual debt was manageable and we were maintaining success while doing it.Lloyds came in around 2009 time before the tax case was even an issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 No. Murray paid the price for a bank being a shit.The debt went from £30m to £18m in 1 year - that is more than sustainable.Everyone's fault but his then?Dear oh dear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Everyone's fault but his then?Dear oh dear.Where am I saying everyone?The bank. I stick with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Where am I saying everyone?The bank. I stick with that.If it was simply the bank being shitebags why didn't more football clubs suffer the same way?They might not be blameless but if Murray's business practises hadn't been so questionable they'd never have got that much power. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If it was simply the bank being shitebags why didn't more football clubs suffer the same way?They might not be blameless but if Murray's business practises hadn't been so questionable they'd never have got that much power.Ah. Now you're on to something!I didn't say shitebags, I said shites. Do a bit of googling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Ah. Now you're on to something!I didn't say shitebags, I said shites. Do a bit of googling.Why talk in riddles? I could be wrong, I just don't remember the bank taking control of another football club to that extent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Why talk in riddles? I could be wrong, I just don't remember the bank taking control of another football club to that extent.No riddles mate, but I don't have the time to find all the articles for you.On the surface, some MSM stuff start with...http://www.<No links to this website>/sport/football/frustrated-rangers-fans-demand-answers-1098746http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15393428But you need to go back earlier than that and ask some questions around about the time when Lloyds took over HBOS, and see if you can unearth any details about the board members.Leggo may be able to help there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 No riddles mate, but I don't have the time to find all the articles for you.On the surface, some MSM stuff start with...http://www.dailyreco...answers-1098746http://www.bbc.co.uk...w-west-15393428But you need to go back earlier than that and ask some questions around about the time when Lloyds took over HBOS, and see if you can unearth any details about the board members.Leggo may be able to help there.I'm well aware of Lloyd's actions with the takeover etc.The difference is I believe Murray has to at least take a large chunk of the blame for allowing them to gain such control, while you seem to believe he was/is an innocent victim of theirs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio 1,199 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What could Hugh Adam have seen from 1987 - 1992 that would have been of interest to Alex Thompson. This was a dual contract investigation from the SPL, which was formed well after Hugh Adam had left Rangers.So what Bill is saying in his blog is that Hugh Adam seen dual contracts during his time at the Club, which includes the 9 in a row era. He then goes on to say that, it wasn't dual contracts that Hugh saw, but Side Letters.Side letters are now Dual Contracts, even though Bill has yet to see the contents of a side letter.I think Bill is letting friendship cloud his vision on this one. Either that, or we have been breaking the rules from 1987, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
govanblue 16,847 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 ...while you seem to believe he was/is an innocent victim of theirs.Yes I do.And I find it quite depressing the way those same dark forces have managed to convince most that Murray was the bad guy.Murray ran his businesses and football club exactly the same way that everyone else ran their businesses and football clubs.The dark forces have been scheming since even before Manchester. Murray/Lloyds was just an early salvo, so most people didn't take the possibility of foul play seriously at the time - yet today, everyone is quite able to see the hand of the dark forces in all the latest goings on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yes I do.And I find it quite depressing the way those same dark forces have managed to convince most that Murray was the bad guy.Murray ran his businesses and football club exactly the same way that everyone else ran their businesses and football clubs.The dark forces have been scheming since even before Manchester. Murray/Lloyds was just an early salvo, so most people didn't take the possibility of foul play seriously at the time - yet today, everyone is quite able to see the hand of the dark forces in all the latest goings on.So it's all been one big conspiracy is the defence now? Of course people have tried to do us over but by taking advantage of circumstance, not some big chain of events all planned out.Don't know what Murray did to gain such loyaly from you GB, anything done under his stewardship was to satsify an ego trip and to hell with any future consequences for us. He and his companies made a fortune out of us and we had the constant lies about only selling to the right man.Notice even now, after much bluster on the week of the tax case verdict, we've heard nothing from him even with this SPL kangaroo court coming up.Despicable man who is as big an enemy of our club as anyone IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billmcmurdo 462 Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 What could Hugh Adam have seen from 1987 - 1992 that would have been of interest to Alex Thompson. This was a dual contract investigation from the SPL, which was formed well after Hugh Adam had left Rangers.So what Bill is saying in his blog is that Hugh Adam seen dual contracts during his time at the Club, which includes the 9 in a row era. He then goes on to say that, it wasn't dual contracts that Hugh saw, but Side Letters.Side letters are now Dual Contracts, even though Bill has yet to see the contents of a side letter.I think Bill is letting friendship cloud his vision on this one. Either that, or we have been breaking the rules from 1987,Have you ever seen a side letter?I have Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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