The standard of Scottish football

[CanadianGer 1]

Last Sunday, my father in law (who is a Canadian who grew up in Argentina but has Ukrainian parents - figure that out) watched his first ever SPL game. The game in question was Hearts v Hibs.

Now my father in law is well up on football. As a teenager, he had trials for Boca Juniors who wanted to sign him on s-forms. He tried out for a spot with a professional team in the old American soccer league. And he still plays every week. He also watches the EPL most weekends. So I would say he is at least as well qualified as the average fan to comment on the standard of the game being played.

After watching that game, his first question to me was, "Are those guys really professional soccer players?" He just could not believe that people with such low skill levels were being paid. In fact, he was incredulous about the whole thing. The way that everyone charged around, the fact nobody had any time on the ball, the fact that none of the players seemed able to hold the ball and spray it around. Shaking his head, he told me "There were about 10 touches of the ball where it wasn't even on the ground - it was just punted from one end to the other." He was honestly shocked.

He could not believe the chasm between the EPL most weeks and the SPL game he had just seen. In fact, his view was that the MLS standard here in North America showcases more talent, even if the teams are not necessarily likely to beat Hearts or Hibs.

Its not world-shaking news that Hearts and Hibs are not wonderful teams, but it was interesting to hear just about badly he thought they were. After all, these clubs are currently fourth and fifth in the table respectively. They are both candidates for European football next year.

In closing, I'd say this. Without a major change in the tactics and training offered to our young prospects, I think teams are going to be in real trouble. We will consistently fall further and further behind. And the heid-banger approach to the game that you see with these weaker teams is preventing Rangers really developing into a solid, footballing side. Some of the most exciting young players we've seen have disappeared and other players have become cumbersome journeymen in the McCulloch mould.

Time for the SFA to get the same sort of perspective from someone seeing the Scottish game for the first time?

[Stardog 11]

his view was that the MLS standard here in North America showcases more talent, even if the teams are not necessarily likely to beat Hearts or Hibs.

Einstein this guy :harhar:

[TMWWBK 0]

I've said before that the OF apart, the SPL is on par with the English League 1.

Recently hyped SPL "stars" like Julien Brellier, Rudi Skacel, Mark De Vries, Peter Canero and Markus Heikkinen have all tried their luck down in the lower leagues of England and havent looked anything other than ordinary. Up here they were treated like God's by their fans, simply because the standard of the league made them look like good players instead of the mediocre players that they really are.

The Scottish media are quick to slate the English media for overvaluing their talent, but they are just as bad for it. Look at the John Park reared group of youngsters at Hibs who the media constantly fawned over, Thomson apart, has any of them actually done anything?

The SPL from 2006-2008 is as bad as i can ever remember it. When washed up mediocre foreigners like Abdessalam Benjelloun, Franco Miranda and Mehdi Taouli are considered as some of the better players, you know something is up.

[CanadianGer 1]

his view was that the MLS standard here in North America showcases more talent, even if the teams are not necessarily likely to beat Hearts or Hibs.

Einstein this guy :harhar:

I suppose I should clarify. You might find Hearts could be LA Galaxy, just as the tims occasionally beat someone big at home like Man U. But is it because the Scottish team is playing better technical football? No, it's because non-Scottish teams can believe it when most of our centre-halves can hardly pass the ball and when the standard response to a clever piece of play is for the other team to keep said gifted player into the stands.

[Coopermania 1]

I think the father-in-law is correct in his judgement. Our game, by and large is all about chasing the ball, getting it and getting shot of it as soon as you can. European/S.American teams are filled with players who think about what they are doing, try something, and if that fails are able to come up with a different plan on how to break the opposition down.

It's so obvious in some of the top European games, you can see them thinking and they take their time on the ball. Plus they don't panic if things don't work out first-time.

Most of the time our guys are rushing about looking for a 'break'. Thing is, you are more likely to get a break with good planning.

[andy500 463]

I do think, it is a different style of football. Whether it is worse than any other league or not is a matter of opinion.

[excoriate 0]

Spot on with these comments.

Accies won the 1st division playing some great football.

Pumped Dundee Utd with the same style, then everyone else in the league used bully boy tactics to stop them playing.

When theres tactics like that, Scotland will never, ever progress.

[CanadianGer 1]

Spot on with these comments.

Accies won the 1st division playing some great football.

Pumped Dundee Utd with the same style, then everyone else in the league used bully boy tactics to stop them playing.

When theres tactics like that, Scotland will never, ever progress.

Agreed 100%

I think the father-in-law is correct in his judgement. Our game, by and large is all about chasing the ball, getting it and getting shot of it as soon as you can. European/S.American teams are filled with players who think about what they are doing, try something, and if that fails are able to come up with a different plan on how to break the opposition down.

It's so obvious in some of the top European games, you can see them thinking and they take their time on the ball. Plus they don't panic if things don't work out first-time.

Most of the time our guys are rushing about looking for a 'break'. Thing is, you are more likely to get a break with good planning.

I know we can produce talented players - look at Cooper, Baxter, Law.

But when you see our guys looking so lost with the ball at their feet, that is never going to be a good thing.

[andy500 463]

I think the father-in-law is correct in his judgement. Our game, by and large is all about chasing the ball, getting it and getting shot of it as soon as you can. European/S.American teams are filled with players who think about what they are doing, try something, and if that fails are able to come up with a different plan on how to break the opposition down.

It's so obvious in some of the top European games, you can see them thinking and they take their time on the ball. Plus they don't panic if things don't work out first-time.

Most of the time our guys are rushing about looking for a 'break'. Thing is, you are more likely to get a break with good planning.

I know we can produce talented players - look at Cooper, Baxter, Law.

But when you see our guys looking so lost with the ball at their feet, that is never going to be a good thing.

See, Barry Ferguson is one of the world's worst offenders for this.

He gets the ball at his feet, looks about, swivels, puts his arms out and passes it back.

I'm not going to get torn into Barry here but this is one of the main things that annoy me about him. He has no idea what he is doing when he gets the ball. All midfielders should know what they are going to do before the ball even comes to them!

[keithgersbear 3,225]

Just no money being pumped into the scottish game. The SPL is like the championship of england or league 1. The standard is very poor. We all know this but its not a level playing field. The teams who get relegated in the premier league get like 18-19 million or more and thats just for going down. The team which wins the SPL gets like 2 million. What is fair in that? I support a Premier league club with a passion but where is the fairness in that? Scottish clubs can't compete. Man utd the other night could of destroyed celtic if they really wanted to. Im talking 7-0 with ease. It seemed they didn't want to push it because they didn't want to waste energy or pick up injurys which is shocking in itself.

The gap between the Premier League, La Liga and possibly Seria A to every other league is scary. All the money is in england, so all the best players will be attracted to the premiership. La Liga is a high standard with some wonderful players and Seria A still has some great clubs but even Seria A IMO is falling away. The same standard of players aren't in Seria A anymore. Where is the great defenders, the great strikers? The baggios, Baresi's etc.

Its not just a unlevel playing field in scotland but its also a problem in many leagues. Look at Ajax for example. An amazing european club with great history and tradition but they can't buy any world class players. Any good players they get, clubs come in looking for them and take them away. Ryan babel is a perfect example of this. Good player but Ajax fans say fuck all of him really. He had no time at all to give something back to that club which give him a start in life. How would you feel if Rangers produced a wonderfuly gifted winger, for only man utd or Arsenal to come in and take him away for like 5 million pounds and then see him become great in the next 5-10 years. Its not fair on many clubs. The divide in football is scary now. Clubs like Bayern munich can't even compete anymore for the top prizes. Clubs are now kind of afraid of putting a lot of work in to produce top players to a certain level because they are afraid clubs in England, Spain or Italy will come in and grab them and take them away.

MeGeady looks like a top player in scotland but would he do it in England or Spain? I dunno if he would. If clubs thought he would, he would properly be a Man Utd player now.

So you have to know what level of players are at in scotland now. Mendes did it in England and as you see, looks different class to all of our other midfielders.

[Coopermania 1]

Spot on Keith, good post.

It's true, if the likes of Bayern Munich and Ajax and many more can't compete, what chance do we have ?

If we ever did produce a wonderkid he would be snapped up by one of the big boys. Unfortunately money talks. Hell, we can't even hold onto a Hutton or a Cuellar.

Unless UEFA made drastic changes to football European-wide to make it a more level playing field, things will never change.

[JTP 221]

We need to get rid of the 'School Teacher' coaching at Youth/Boys levels. These coaches are all from the same background and use all the same methods. Its time to move out with the old and in with the new starting with telling these guys where to go.

An example of this I'll give you. I was watching am amatuer mens game last season and Giffnock Soccer Centre (around under 8's) were playing on the park next to it. Their game had just finished and the coach (my shout is he was a school teacher or bullied at school and this is his new power position) sat all the young boys down on the park as they had just been beat and singly went through every single one of the boys absolutely screaming at them.

Myself and another guy were actually debating wether to go and punch his fuckin face in!

What is that going to teach an 8 year old boy? That he doesnt want to go back next week but would rather sit in and play his xbox!

[brissyger 8]

I actually find Scottish football exciting to watch and find the EPL rather dull. That might have more to do with the fans being completely passionless in England though. Beautiful skills and running of the ball is all nice to watch but I find these South American players and players from the continent who would just as soon go to ground as try and beat someone frustrating to watch. Give me hard crunching tackles, fast play and very little time on the ball any day. As much as this means that the SPL teams aren't really of the same quality skill wise as their counterparts from the continent I don't think however hard we try the SPL will ever match them with skill anyway.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Tell me about it.

I go to games most weeks.

We even have so called pro footballers who don't seem to know how to take a throw in legally

[pcbear 10,924]

The EPL-SPL comparison is not rocket science, if you can ship inthe cream of world football on mega dough its pretty obvious the standard of football shall be high, far from guaranteed though there are plenty howling games as well, tv money- night and day, the team that gets relegated parachute payment is probably = to the whole Setanta deal.

Scotland is probably unique in being a country so small it has two world famous clubs with fan bases to match.

Moldova,Denmark,Finland,Norway,Georgia, Slovakia,Ireland all have populations similar to Scotland.

Serbia,Hungary,Portugal,Switzerland,Austria,Belgium,Holland,Sweden all have many more, before you get to France,Spain,Germany,Turkey, England,Italy, there are even 38m Poles.

All in all i think Scottish football punches way above its weight mostly, and even we ourselves are a bit harsh on it.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,355]

We need to get rid of the 'School Teacher' coaching at Youth/Boys levels. These coaches are all from the same background and use all the same methods. Its time to move out with the old and in with the new starting with telling these guys where to go.

An example of this I'll give you. I was watching am amatuer mens game last season and Giffnock Soccer Centre (around under 8's) were playing on the park next to it. Their game had just finished and the coach (my shout is he was a school teacher or bullied at school and this is his new power position) sat all the young boys down on the park as they had just been beat and singly went through every single one of the boys absolutely screaming at them.

Myself and another guy were actually debating wether to go and punch his fuckin face in!

What is that going to teach an 8 year old boy? That he doesnt want to go back next week but would rather sit in and play his xbox!

It also doesn't help that most coaches spend 60 odd minutes of a 90 minute training session making their players do running, press ups, situp's, etc,etc

It teaches them nothing about technique and positioning.

Personally I like when you play 6 asides on a five a sides size pitch, with size 3 ball. Technique loyal

[brissyger 8]

We need to get rid of the 'School Teacher' coaching at Youth/Boys levels. These coaches are all from the same background and use all the same methods. Its time to move out with the old and in with the new starting with telling these guys where to go.

An example of this I'll give you. I was watching am amatuer mens game last season and Giffnock Soccer Centre (around under 8's) were playing on the park next to it. Their game had just finished and the coach (my shout is he was a school teacher or bullied at school and this is his new power position) sat all the young boys down on the park as they had just been beat and singly went through every single one of the boys absolutely screaming at them.

Myself and another guy were actually debating wether to go and punch his fuckin face in!

What is that going to teach an 8 year old boy? That he doesnt want to go back next week but would rather sit in and play his xbox!

It also doesn't help that most coaches spend 60 odd minutes of a 90 minute training session making their players do running, press ups, situp's, etc,etc

It teaches them nothing about technique and positioning.

Personally I like when you play 6 asides on a five a sides size pitch, with size 3 ball. Technique loyal

Actually I'd say fitness is the most important aspect of football today.

[Mairosu 0]

It boils down to what do you want to see in a football match.

Personally, I'm not high on dribbling, rolling and all that fancy stuff you can see in Primera or such. I don't watch Spanish, nor South American football, and I watch Serie A only when I absolutely must (which admittedly happens). What I like to watch is effort, spirit and competition, I wanna see a battle for 90 minutes in which eleven men will try hard to beat the other eleven men. While the technical level of football is admittedly rather low in Scotland, I don't mind watching SPL at all because there is passion and heart in it. It's a battle, old style, and I like it. There is also a rich tradition and great folklore, something I value as well.

My favourite leagues are Bundesliga 1 and 2, Eredivisie, Jupiler League, SPL and EPL. Basically, all of them fall into grinder football category (Bundesliga and Eredivisie are SPL with overclocked skill levels and budgets, essentially).