MrSifter

Minutes round of applause for Sandy. And another when he asks to be removed from the SFA Hall of Fame as he said he would.

Interpretation clearly isn't a strong point of yours. Perhaps that's why you constantly supported David Murray to the hilt, up to and including liquidation. It wasn't so much your fault, you just never understood what was going on.

You are the man who backed (and still does) David Murray to the hilt, up to and including liquidation. You have a credibility gap that no-one on here will ever forget. Walter Smith, fine manager that he was, seldom spoke out in defence of the Club and I cannot recall one statement from him in the last fifteen years praising or supporting the fans. Of course, google is your friend and no doubt you'll be able to provide links to copious amounts of quotes to the contrary.

You've made a messageboard "career" out of defending David Murray to the hilt, up to and including liquidation. Thankfully not many people present such "well thought out" points of view.

Tell me what makes you think that, what's the evidence from his two previous tenures to come to that conclusion?

Would you agree for at least the last fifteen years those in charge at the Club allowed the Club's name and the reputation of the fans to be spat on, shat on and dragged through the mud by anyone who wanted a pop? Indeed, it could be argued that the single biggest asset (the support) was actually looked on with disdain by Club officials all the while appeasing those that absolutely hate us.

Just you get back to wishing it was the year 2000 and sniffing a pair of David Murray's jockeys.

Been thinking a bit about Green and his various statements. Does anyone think we'd still be putting up with "dignified silence" and allowing the Club and fans to be shat on like it has been in the last fifteen years if one of the old hands had bought the Club?

That may well be true. When is he going to start acting like one?

Has anyone in the Jock hack pack praised the support for being the most loyal in the country?

All those points are spot on. The European ban comes from UEFA and I don't know if they'd shift on it. If they do look to restructure and they want us in the top flight we need to negotiate away the signing embargo. If they do not, then we should not accept what is on offer. There is no advantage to us of being in there. I'm not at all convinced we should consider it anyway and we can claim sporting integrity as our reason for working our way up through the divisions. I honestly think they'll try and struggle on for the next twelve months and hope to have us back in there next season. Do not forget the press and other SPL clubs were trying to push the idea that the Division 1 option was to help us out. What is no surprise but has become absolutely clear is we do not need or want any help from them and in fact they are absolutely reliant on Rangers for long term survival.

How exactly could restructuring lead to a Division 3 club being in the top flight? Where would the sporting integrity be in that? Assuming we go up, there are still nine other clubs in Division 2 and the ten in Division 1 certainly have more moral rights to be in the top flight than we do. For the SFL clubs to accept this now would be bizarre. It is also unfair on the Clubs in Division 1 and 2 who should be rewarded by trips to Ibrox and from the bears. These clubs were quite magnificent in accepting us into the SFL on true sporting integrity.

By "they" I assume you mean the radio "pundits". They are not in anyway more knowledgable about this than you or I. This all hinges on the five party agreement. If it is not specifically stipulated in that agreement that the new holding company is to pay Dundee Hibs then I don't see why we would given the letter of 18th May. It will be interesting to know why the SPL thinks they have not to honour that letter when the SFA did.

D&P never backed off. BDO were appointed as liquidators. Charles Green has never had any rights to sign away money owed to the old holding company. It has nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Who is claiming the letter is not valid mate? Also on what basis has it been invalidated according to this party?

Good to have you back Mo, not seen you about in ages. £30k is trifling to the majestic Rangers but to the SPL it is a decent sum of money. The BBC reporting in this case just proves how poor their journalism is.

Probably because they've made an arse of every procedure to date. It'll be for his own protection I think. I'm maybe being too optimistic but I think they might be worried now someone at the Club has said we're not eating shit anymore.

Excellent point. It makes you wonder if the SPL have handled any of this saga competently at all.

We don't actually know what that agreement says. They may have asked Green to waive a claim on that money but that in no way detracts from the fact the money is due to the old holding company. Green does not own the old holding company so he cannot have signed away their claim on the money.

True but two factors come into play: Thomson hates us. They are members of the SPL which is financially struggling. It is in both Dundee Hibs and the SPL's mindset to try and screw us over at every turn. It will be interesting to see the five party agreement. If it lists out all the football debt we agreed to pay and Dundee Hibs are on there then the SPL will have a case. If however it does not list out all football debts then we will have the stronger case. Given Green's robust response I suspect it is the latter. I also suspect this is nothing more than the SPL trying to deflect from the fact they don't have the cash flow to pay it. Fun and games ahead, what price the SFL having to sue the SPL in order to get the monies contractually due to it?

I agree it's a nonsense and Green made the point the new holding company had no legal obligation to do so. The new holding company has no rights over money due to the old holding company, I don't actually see anything controversial in that. The real issue is why either D&P or BDO are not or have not demanded payment for monies due so it can be passed onto the old holding company's creditors.

I would believe that to be the case. Dundee Hibs have been very quiet on this and I suspect they have in their possession a letter from the SPL dating back to May confirming the SPL would be paying them the money directly from the prize money due to the old holding company of Rangers. This sort of thing would come out in the discovery process if it went to trial.

Also of note is that fact the SPL confirmed on 18th May they would pay the money to Dundee Hibs. This money would therefore be struck off our creditors list. That letter would be deemed to be legally binding under Scots Law.

What incentive would there be for D&P to sign away a claim on that money? They would be in breach of their legal duty. D&P with Green attempted a CVA, it failed. As a result the old holding company's assets were sold to Green's consortium and liquidators were appointed. Their duty is to recover all monies owed to the old holding company to be distributed to creditors before winding up the old holding company.

D&P will have the letters as they were running the club at the time. They will have provided them to BDO. The new holding company may have waived a right to the prize money but they were not entitled to it anyway. Does anyone actually believe D&P or BDO will have waived rights to that money for creditors?