I'll own Gers in three weeks, front page of the Mail.

[Frankie 505]

I think it would be a case of buying the land we required off GCC on the cheap - as had happened with Celtic FC in recent times. Couple that with the immediate area around the stadium and the car park, then it starts to be rather a large landbank.

Easier said than done though.

[mcowano 0]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I think it would be a case of buying the land we required off GCC on the cheap - as had happened with Celtic FC in recent times. Couple that with the immediate area around the stadium and the car park, then it starts to be rather a large landbank.

Easier said than done though.

More and more I am coming to the conclusion that this is it, and the answer to "why would anyone want to buy an SPL club?".

The thing is, as I said in another thread, if that area is bought by Rangers, under his control, and, Rangers do the development, then, Rangers get the income. Without knowing the ins and outs of it, that could make us some significant money I would think, on an ongoing basis? Other businesses renting space in a Rangers owned shopping mall? and so on. We could generate serious money to the point where our "other activities" make us more than on the field activities, but, the team could benefit hugely.

This also gets round the whole Fifa/uefa ruling on only being allowed to spend what you make thing that they are trying to get in (the percentage of turnover/profit allowed to be used on the squad?). We could make millions a year on the property side of things, which could be used to improve the squad. Qualifying for Europe would only matter because of the pride in doing it.

If you look at things that way, could be very very good

[Blue Stars Bearette 1]

its worrying to think we could just be use as this guys debt distribution tool

wish we could have a Gers fan buy us but thats unrealistic I guess

[greig 1]

1. Guy borrows money to buy football club.

2. Uses club to redevelop land (after transferring ownership to separate company).

3. Keeps profits of land sales/development.

4. Sells club - original investor gets money back (along with a percentage of land sales/development).

Why didn't Murray do this? He could not get his hands on the finances, aka he's ran out of people to invest for him (Joe Lewis, Dave King).

If this guys plan comes off, he will leave us in the same shitty state (financially) as we are in today.

I would not go near Ellis with a ten thousand foot bargepole.

[outlaw69uk 123]

its worrying to think we could just be use as this guys debt distribution tool

wish we could have a Gers fan buy us but thats unrealistic I guess

See, the thing I dont get with that is, you see some of the things on message boards and think, thank **** you arent in charge!

I am more concerned in getting someone with a good business brain in charge, and, someone who wants to be successful. Its far more important. Especially when you take into account the financial "rewards" of playing in the SPL, things like Rangers adding to their portfolio, perhaps in the property side of things, has to be looked at to increase revenue. Its not an area I thought of. Do Chelski not do something similar with the Chelsea Village?

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

When this story originally broke I mentioned the options of re-development that is available and this would be an excellent time for someone to come in and possibly invest, reading that report seems to re-iterate what I originally thought.

Is he going to be good enough for us, I don't know but I don't see that many options showing themselves so if he is coming in and part of the deal is to help clear the debt then what is wrong with that?

People on here have shown that it is possible for Rangers to be run debt free and live within our needs and still be successful, and if he is buying due to the options of re-development then it can generate money which would probably also be used to fund the club.

Is he the wrong or right person, I don't know, but I don't believe he would deliberately run the club into any more debt, in fact I think far from it to be honest.

[baldeagle 0]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

I do hope your fiscal ability is somewhat better than your geographical and imperial measurement skills, but I doubt it, 15,000 miles indeed.

ETA as long as Braehead is a few miles up the road, there will be no shopping malls in Govan.

[mcowano 0]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

I do hope your fiscal ability is somewhat better than your geographical and imperial measurement skills, but I doubt it, 15,000 miles indeed.

ETA as long as Braehead is a few miles up the road, there will be no shopping malls in Govan.

You do realise i wasnt talking specifically about where he is just now dont you. I was merely reinforcing my point that as long as he has access to a working telephone, he could be on the moon reading through the books. lol

[outlaw69uk 123]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

You dont know this. Am afraid.

The other, far more likely option, would be equity investments (ala Dragons Den to make simple).

We wont "owe" in that situation, however, when sold, Ellis would then have to share the profits in relation to the percentages of equity owned by other parties.

Pretty simple really, if not overly "frightening", which of course just wont do

In regard to all the press coverage, you have to remember that its being printed by people who generally prefer to print negative things about us, so, they are hardly going to show Ellis in a favourable light are they? Compare and contrast with the Terry Fenwick interview on the subject in Scotland On Sunday

[MrSifter 181]

I still find it laughable that people think redeveloping areas of Govan will be some sort of cash cow for the club. You can't polish a turd.

[mcowano 0]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

You dont know this. Am afraid.

The other, far more likely option, would be equity investments (ala Dragons Den to make simple).

We wont "owe" in that situation, however, when sold, Ellis would then have to share the profits in relation to the percentages of equity owned by other parties.

Pretty simple really, if not overly "frightening", which of course just wont do

In regard to all the press coverage, you have to remember that its being printed by people who generally prefer to print negative things about us, so, they are hardly going to show Ellis in a favourable light are they? Compare and contrast with the Terry Fenwick interview on the subject in Scotland On Sunday

My information is not taken from any press coverage. If a paper told me that the seats at Ibrox were blue, i would take a trip in just to check it out. I wont judge Ellis on what the papers tell me, i will judge him on his plans and proposals for buying our club.

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

Why would equity partners be more realistic than "mortgaging" the club ?

What is easier to find.

1) 3 guys with £11 million each with no promise of a return investing in a business that the worldwide over loses money and very rarely offers a return on investment

OR

2) A bank that will offer you a 33% LTV against assets.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

I wonder who that could be......

these guys have the loosest loose lips of anyone anywhere near ibrox, they are like a bunch of fecking woman. I am glad they can't afford to buy the club as they would have been a disaster. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out these guys mouths, they have been spreading lies to the press and anyone who will listen since November

[baldeagle 0]

My information is not taken from any press coverage. If a paper told me that the seats at Ibrox were blue, i would take a trip in just to check it out. I wont judge Ellis on what the papers tell me, i will judge him on his plans and proposals for buying our club.

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

Why would equity partners be more realistic than "mortgaging" the club ?

What is easier to find.

1) 3 guys with £11 million each with no promise of a return investing in a business that the worldwide over loses money and very rarely offers a return on investment

OR

2) A bank that will offer you a 33% LTV against assets.

Whatever next, Minty has gone from being given a pound for his "worthless" shares and told to sling his hook to gettin £33 million for his worthless bag, the bank and Muir working in unison to destroy us, skint administration on the way to the third division

Duffy, Dave King, Park the only one missing is JR, he will probably be along later, what a crock. Minty will still be calling the shots this time next year.

[mcowano 0]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

I wonder who that could be......

these guys have the loosest loose lips of anyone anywhere near ibrox, they are like a bunch of fecking woman. I am glad they can't afford to buy the club as they would have been a disater. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out these guys mouths, they have been spreading lies to the press and anyone who will listen since November

I 100% agree it would have been a disaster. Im not sure who you think it is, but i would bet my mortgage you would be wrong. I dont really have time for a lot of the names banded about and even less time for some of the hanger-ons who were trying to associate themselves with the offerors.

I can only take my source on face value and over the last 2 years, he has been very reliable source of information and a good, honest bear to boot.

[Frankie 505]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

I appreciate the comments you've already made. As I'm not an expert but as HHB is then I'm no further forward than before given you (or your solid source) also appears to know your onions.

Why doesn't the person you're connected with outline their plans for the club RE: investment so we can judge them on their own merits?

[mcowano 0]

Whatever next, Minty has gone from being given a pound for his "worthless" shares and told to sling his hook to gettin £33 million for his worthless bag, the bank and Muir working in unison to destroy us, skint administration on the way to the third division

Duffy, Dave King, Park the only one missing is JR, he will probably be along later, what a crock. Minty will still be calling the shots this time next year.

Ive never bought into the "the bank and Muir working in unison to destroy us" lark.

Why would the bank extend our overdraft when they themselves are in the shite ?

[Bluedell 14]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

How would your source know what another party's plans are?

[mcowano 0]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

I appreciate the comments you've already made. As I'm not an expert but as HHB is then I'm no further forward than before given you (or your solid source) also appears to know your onions.

Why doesn't the person you're connected with outline their plans for the club RE: investment so we can judge them on their own merits?

My source is just part of the funders for one of the other bids. There are too many players involved and too many questionable characters for my liking with this other bid. There was also no plan as to how they were going to continually support and fund the club. It was merely a group of people who between them could cough up £18 million to buy out Murray.

The trouble with outlining these things is that the regulations regarding takeovers make it very difficult.

The type of consortium or owner we need doesnt grow on trees im afraid as we really need someone with £100 million who will pay Murray, get rid of our £27 million and put in around £15 million per year of their own money to fund player transfers.

Frankly, there is more chance of Timmy winning the league than there is of that happening.

[HHB 63]

Thanks for that HHB, you appear to know your way around a set of books, so could you perhaps decipher this from MIH accounts 2004 in terms that we less erudite in financial terms can understand.

Amounts falling due after more than one year:

Loan notes 52,958 52,958 - -

Other debtors 224 289 - -

Prepayments and accrued income - 10 - -

Deferred tax asset (note 16) ––1–,–4–4–3– –––1–,9–4–5– ––––––––- ––––––––-

–5–4–,–6–2–5– ––5–5–,2–0–2– ––––––––- ––––––––-

1–2–9–,–9–7–3– –1–1–6–,5–6–0– ––1–0–,–1–5–4– –––––8–4–7–

The loan notes were issued by Murray Sports Limited, a related party by virtue of common control. The loan notes are due for payment in the

event of a sale of all or substantially all of the shares, assets or businesses of RFC Investment Holdings Limited and/or subsidiaries. Interest

is payable at commercial rates, only in the event that Murray Sports Limited has sufficient accumulated distributable profits. In the year to 31

January 2003 a provision against the loan notes of £7,645,000 was made.

£52,958,000 appears to be a recurring figure.

I haven't looked at the MIH accounts for a while but, I think, this is linked to the money used to acquire RFC shares as part of the rights issue in 2004. Also, if memory serves me well, MIH has been writing down the value of its holding in RFC since then. In any event, it doesn't alter the actual value of RFC when sold but, if and when we see them, I would imagine the latest MIH accounts will have another big writedown for RFC.

[mcowano 0]

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

How would your source know what another party's plans are?

Despite King and Murray not being an active part of looking at Ellis's proposal, i would have thought it was plainly obvious that they will be "in the know" As someone above already mentioned, people have loose tongues and its probable, ahem i mean possible that word got back to the original offerors.

[Frankie 505]

My source is just part of the funders for one of the other bids. There are too many players involved and too many questionable characters for my liking with this other bid. There was also no plan as to how they were going to continually support and fund the club. It was merely a group of people who between them could cough up £18 million to buy out Murray.

The trouble with outlining these things is that the regulations regarding takeovers make it very difficult.

The type of consortium or owner we need doesnt grow on trees im afraid as we really need someone with £100 million who will pay Murray, get rid of our £27 million and put in around £15 million per year of their own money to fund player transfers.

Frankly, there is more chance of Timmy winning the league than there is of that happening.

So this person is happy to release details of an opposing bid but can't release details of their plans because of regulations? Questionable certainly seems to cover it...

[HHB 63]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

You obviously live in a different business world than I do. When the firm I work for, which is one of the Big 4, does DD it is a very different process than printing off the accounts and heading off to a nice hotel. As, my sources tell me he has actually hired one of the Big 4, I maintain that the article is pish.

I agree with your point 3 but your point 4 is speculation. However, I doubt that paying £33 million and still holding some £25 million plus in debt for Rangers makes economic sense unless Ellis knows somehing about the future of football that we do not.

[outlaw69uk 123]

A few myths to be debunked on this thread.

1) During a due diligence process, it is EXTREMELY common for the books and accounts to be fully printed off and handed to the relevant parties under a confidentiality agreement. No laptop transfers or spreadsheets need to be sent across by computer but this can happen very easily. There is absolutely no valid argument to say that Ellis is not sitting in peace and quiet going through them with a fine toothcomb. It is also common that a company who is trying to sell themselves give excellent points of contact to aid the sale so if Mr Ellis comes up with any questions, his location, be it from his car in the Albion Car park, his office in London or from a tropical island 15000 miles away plays no relevance in anything.

2) The £52 million pumped in by Murray from MIH back in 2005 essentially bought MIH more shares in RFC. Whilst this money was not Murrays own cash, he now owes that money to the bank. Ultimately, if he hadnt put this money up, then he would have £52 million less debt and crudely he(or his business) would be worth £52 million more. This £52 million is not in anyway owed by Rangers. If he hadnt put this money in, then his(MIH) shares right now would be worth nearer £20 million instead of the £33 million being discussed and the £40 million market cap value.

3) "Theres no way we will be sold to someone who has the potential to ruin us" Im afraid that just isnt true. The Rangers board can only really act as an advisory to MIH on this. If MIH decide to accept the £33 million for their shares, then there is very little Rangers FC can do. With Lloyds Bank owning 15% of MIH shares, they are absolutely puting pressure on Murray to sell and his past speech about only selling us to the right person will never be more tested than in the coming weeks. In short, i dont think Murray has the option to not sell, even if it was to the devil.

4) The current bid, reported at £33 million, is for Murrays shares only. It is not to pay off any debt.

That brings me onto current state of play. Im new to here so i fully appreciate it will be treated with a pinch of salt and i dont have an issue with that.

Ellis does not have the cash to buy Rangers. The cash will come from a friendly "lender" of his to the tune of £33 million based on the assets of the club as they currently sit. If Murray sells his shares to Ellis for £33 million, then the debt from the "lender" will be switched to Rangers. None of the current debt will be cleared, currently circa £27 million and by close of play 30th June 2010, we will owe £60 million as a club. There may be funds to buy players, but they will only put us further into debt again.

For Andrew Ellis, read Malcolm Glazer.

As unpalatable as the thought of Murray carrying on just now is to many, if not most of us, he is still a safer bet than the above scenario.

You dont know this. Am afraid.

The other, far more likely option, would be equity investments (ala Dragons Den to make simple).

We wont "owe" in that situation, however, when sold, Ellis would then have to share the profits in relation to the percentages of equity owned by other parties.

Pretty simple really, if not overly "frightening", which of course just wont do

In regard to all the press coverage, you have to remember that its being printed by people who generally prefer to print negative things about us, so, they are hardly going to show Ellis in a favourable light are they? Compare and contrast with the Terry Fenwick interview on the subject in Scotland On Sunday

My information is not taken from any press coverage. If a paper told me that the seats at Ibrox were blue, i would take a trip in just to check it out. I wont judge Ellis on what the papers tell me, i will judge him on his plans and proposals for buying our club.

My information comes from a solid source who is involved with another bid that has been in the press recently. Now it could be argued that he has a vested interest in this and would therefore want to paint Ellis in a bad light, but i trust him enough to believe that he is telling me the truth.

Why would equity partners be more realistic than "mortgaging" the club ?

What is easier to find.

1) 3 guys with £11 million each with no promise of a return investing in a business that the worldwide over loses money and very rarely offers a return on investment

OR

2) A bank that will offer you a 33% LTV against assets.

The press coverage part wasnt meant in that way, was more an afterthought tagged on, then again, given the info about your source, again thats pretty valid I guess.

There is a difference between realsim and easy. Am sure that a traditional loan would be easy, at the same time, its less smart, in as much as if you want to make money, generating debt is a poor way of going about it. Perhaps its how I would look at things. You say "no promise of a return", yet, thats not true is it? Football clubs can turn a profit, we are arguably in a position better than some others. The last 2 seasons have shown we can compete while not spending significantly and also streamlining. And again, the football side of things is not the be all end all of this, in fact, its probably low down the list. They would invest for the potential that could be created out of the property side of things. People need to start looking at the other areas we can generate revenue, to see the true value and why people would invest. Its not ideal for fans, as, perhaps it makes the team look less important, but, thats why people would do that. Rangers buy land, build homes, sell them at profit. Simples.

[mcowano 0]

My source is just part of the funders for one of the other bids. There are too many players involved and too many questionable characters for my liking with this other bid. There was also no plan as to how they were going to continually support and fund the club. It was merely a group of people who between them could cough up £18 million to buy out Murray.

The trouble with outlining these things is that the regulations regarding takeovers make it very difficult.

The type of consortium or owner we need doesnt grow on trees im afraid as we really need someone with £100 million who will pay Murray, get rid of our £27 million and put in around £15 million per year of their own money to fund player transfers.

Frankly, there is more chance of Timmy winning the league than there is of that happening.

So this person is happy to release details of an opposing bid but can't release details of their plans because of regulations? Questionable certainly seems to cover it...

There is a world of difference between releasing public plans and snippets of information though.

I somehow doubt they would want their plans released though anyway, because they probably didnt amount to much given the people involved.