Title Stripping - What chance do we have in court?

[ianbear007 15]

mitre_mouldmaster

Arsenal ran tax schemes to benefit players for many years,there was never any question of them facing any enquiry or punishments by the premiership or f.a.

really you will have to come up with a better argument than rangers will get done because of the timing of payments to players from a tax scheme.

Experienced legal men are going to be examining this "case" and scrutinising the way the spl have mismanaged things from day 1.

The biased report from septics lawyers farter/mccunt,the ridiculous spl rule changes.they will also take into account how other similar scenarios such as the arsenal one have been dealt with.

you are dead wrong with your assertion that the kangaroo court punishment will be the stripping of titles.

how could they possibly justify such a draconian measure.

rangers can legally challenge any decision made by the kangaroo court and i have no doubt we will win any case in a proper scots court of law.

[MikeBlue 136]

Unprecedented, but as far as I can see, in the rule book.

As long as its in the rules, I don't see how we can legally challenge it. What would our defence be? It can't just be about Lawell and juninho.

One defence is that we did declare them - they were in our accounts which were submitted for 10 years.

EDIT - you also seem to be taking the view that as long as "it's in the rules" it cannot be challenged in court. I'm not sure that's true. If the SPL brought in a rule that stated a team will be docked 10 points if their fans don't sing "Scotland the Brave" at every home game do you not think that could be challenged in the civil court?

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Just read through the thread it's fucking reeking!

Thanks for your input.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Its also in the UEFA rule book that Scotland both at club and international level could be thrown out of UEFA if they fielded ineligible players. UEFA would have to punish the SFA.

Uefa would not 'have' to punish Scotland though. They could use their discretion not to. I'm pretty sure that the SFA will have already discussed it with uefa, using the financial fair play as an excuse.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Arsenal ran tax schemes to benefit players for many years,there was never any question of them facing any enquiry or punishments by the premiership or f.a.

really you will have to come up with a better argument than rangers will get done because of the timing of payments from a tax scheme.

Experienced legal men are going to be examining this "case" and scrutinising the way the spl have mismanaged things from day 1.

The biased report from septics lawyers farter/mccunt,the ridiculous spl rule changes and they will also take into account how other similar scenarios such as the arsenal one have been dealt with.

So please could we have a better more reasoned argument than we have had from you so far.

The difference with Arsenal is that they have a supportive FA, we have one that wants to see us suffer.

It does not matter a jot how the FA decided to treat arsenal. If that was an issue we could have sued the sfa for demoting us, as Leeds were treated better by the FA in almost identical circumstances.

Let's hope the judges get it right, but I can't say I hold much faith on this one.

[Quiet Jim 897]

All of our titles are safe.

No person, body or organisation will remove our flags from our club.

Let them come to Ibrox and try to remove our flags from our walls.

A kangaroo court that is made up of proven incompetents, has no right judge.

Simples

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

One defence is that we did declare them - they were in our accounts which were submitted for 10 years.

EDIT - you also seem to be taking the view that as long as "it's in the rules" it cannot be challenged in court. I'm not sure that's true. If the SPL brought in a rule that stated a team will be docked 10 points if their fans don't sing "Scotland the Brave" at every home game do you not think that could be challenged in the civil court?

These are good points.

I don't think they are enough though. The payments were on the accounts, but not broken down to a person basis. Although it could be argued why the SFA/SPL never asked for it.

Your argument on challenging rules in court is good, but I would imagine they would look at the rules on a case by case basis to decide if it was a reasonable rule. Having fans sing a song is unreasonable, declaring all payments is probably not.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

All of our titles are safe.

No person, body or organisation will remove our flags from our club.

Let them come to Ibrox and try to remove our flags from our walls.

A kangaroo court that is made up of proven incompetents, has no right judge.

Simples

They won't touch the physical trophies, but they will rewrite the official records. If they do, we should boycott every bloody thing we can.

[ianbear007 15]

miter_mouldmaster

it does matter a jot how arsenal were treated in fact i believe this will have a major bearing on the way rangers will be judged in this kangaroo "case"

as i have already explained experienced legal men will be examining our case.

you are very stupid and dead wrong if you think that no account will be taken of a very similar scenario i.e the arsenal one

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Ian,

I hope you are right, but I don't see the 'but they did it too' defence working. Especially as it is over borders into FAs with different rule books.

If as you say it's such an easy thing to compare, why did we not challenge them to apply the Leeds effect and force the SFA to keep us in the SPL?

After all Leeds did not get a cva and exited admin via a NewCo yet retained their league position.

[Quiet Jim 897]

They won't touch the physical trophies, but they will rewrite the official records. If they do, we should boycott every bloody thing we can.

By the time that this comes to a real court, when we rip them a new arsehole. The SPL will be no more.

The future is bright, the future is Orange, the future is Rangers.

We are breaking world records, week in week out.

Savile united, will implode financially and personally, I would never want to see that scum in our stadium, ever again.

Rather play a real derby, year in year out.

Time to go home dirty terrorist bastards.

QJ

[ianbear007 15]

mitre_mouldmaster

let us just stick to tax schemes shall we. i could not give two farts about leeds league status.

the arsenal tax scheme scenario was very similar to rangers case.nothing happened to arsenal football club

this is very relevant in the kangaroo case and in any future scots court case that rangers may be involved in.

to suggest otherwise is balderdash

[JTP 221]

mitre_mouldmaster ..................... I think you will be burst soon when we win this.

[Bad Robot 21,512]

Its also in the UEFA rule book that Scotland both at club and international level could be thrown out of UEFA if they fielded ineligible players. UEFA would have to punish the SFA.

the charge of ineligible players is only from 2005 and could only in a worst case scenario affect 3 titles. The commission brief is broken down into 4 chapters (time periods) all which reflect rule changes by either the sfa or spl.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

mitre_mouldmaster ..................... I think you will be burst soon when we win this.

If you are claiming im a tim, then you must think I have went to some effort to pretend. I have written huge pieces on why our history has been retained, and thats just on this site. Go to JA606, my usual site, and you will see im anything but a tim.

I want us to win this case, but I just cant see how we can. So far I cant see one legal avenue for overturning an SPL decision if they choose to strip titles.

The unquestioning positivity just pisses me off. I prefer realism and then being able to adapt to the situation.

I always said a NewCo was a good idea, others stated that it would be the end of Rangers and I was a tim for even suggesting it.

This unquestioning positivity followed by sheer panic is how FF deals with things, and no doubt resulted in their attitude to Green when he took over.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

the charge of ineligible players is only from 2005 and could only in a worst case scenario affect 3 titles. The commission brief is broken down into 4 chapters (time periods) all which reflect rule changes by either the sfa or spl.

This sounds good to be honest.

If this is the case, then you are right, I cannot see them going after any more than 3 titles.

Still horrible, and we should fight the SFA/SPL on this, but we just have to be clever on how we do it.

If we cant stop them, we should at least make them bloody pay.

[JTP 221]

If you are claiming im a tim, then you must think I have went to some effort to pretend. I have written huge pieces on why our history has been retained, and thats just on this site. Go to JA606, my usual site, and you will see im anything but a tim.

I want us to win this case, but I just cant see how we can. So far I cant see one legal avenue for overturning an SPL decision if they choose to strip titles.

The unquestioning positivity just pisses me off. I prefer realism and then being able to adapt to the situation.

I always said a NewCo was a good idea, others stated that it would be the end of Rangers and I was a tim for even suggesting it.

This unquestioning positivity followed by sheer panic is how FF deals with things, and no doubt resulted in their attitude to Green when he took over.

Are you a lawyer?

[DronganExile 84]

Sea Bear has probably called it right. SPL need the cash so I wouldn't be too surprised if a massive fine comes our way. Stripping titles will still be on the agenda but I think they will try and do a deal to swap titles for a fine.

[Big Al 55 9,323]

nothing happened to arsenal football club

Does the FA have the same rule about non-disclosed payments to players? That is the question if you want to look to the FA for parallels. Anyway simply because the FA didn't penalise Arsenal has no bearing on whether or not the SPL penalise us.

[Bad Robot 21,512]

Sea Bear has probably called it right. SPL need the cash so I wouldn't be too surprised if a massive fine comes our way. Stripping titles will still be on the agenda but I think they will try and do a deal to swap titles for a fine.

Unfortunatelly it's a Celtic driven agenda who want the titles stripped.

I believe teams in the past have been stripped of points for each game an ineligible player has been fielded which could in a worst case scenario award three titles to Celtic.

This would mean in theory that they could overtake us in titles by the time we return to the top division which is their agenda.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

I think we should be standing on the steps of Hampden, en masse, vehemently voicing our outrage over the matter.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

Can't touch them because then you are opening up a huge can of worms. You are then having to repay compensation to all clubs etc and it would just not happen.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

Can't touch them because then you are opening up a huge can of worms. You are then having to repay compensation to all clubs etc and it would just not happen.

I wish this was true, but given they have already tried to force it through for our licence, I think they can get round it.

[Leeds_Bear 8,165]

I wish this was true, but given they have already tried to force it through for our licence, I think they can get round it.

This is what worrys me the most, they have already made up their mind and will do their very best to find a way to do it.

Knowing the SPL they will probably say 'we have treated Rangers the same as we would have treated any other team (who play their home games at Ibrox, in blue and were founded in 1873) they have not been treated any differently to any other SPL club.'

[ianbear007 15]

double post