simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Of course it is because you will always give him the benefit of the doubt and I won't.I'm just not comfortable being lied to on a consistent basis by our then CEO. Would feel the same no matter who it was.How were you lied to on a consistent basis? Is stuff like Dallas Cowboys really such a big deal, or just ideas and possibilities that never got anywhere?You might think they should have told us all about screwing Whyte over from the start but consider if that would really have done our recovery any good, when we badly needed fans to be right behind the club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Because that's the phrase used to criticise Smith and McCoist on here. Has he lied to the fans though?A liar is a liar is a liar. Give some examples of the 'lies' you are alluding to? 'Rangers men' is a phrase used on here, mostly, to describe those that are seen as somehow better than the man who put up the cash when there was no one else wanting to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Funny how everything that doesn't support the opinion Charles is infallible is myth.Think you should go back and check CG video interviews around then. Clearly stated he didn't care about title stripping til Ally set him straight that it would not be acceptable at all.Give me a link to one of those videos please, I cannot recall them.Yes it's always been clear that McCoist had an input and filled Green in on fan feeling over the titles etc, but there's a portrayal that Green didn't care at all and stuff like he was about to sign titles away before Ally snatched the pen out of his hand or along those lines. I've never seen or heard proper proof of that, Green was the boss and he made the ultimate decision to not give in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Besides Green saying he "didn't care about title stripping."I have no reason to lie, believe it or not that's what CG said and it was Ally who put him straight. I don't expect you to accept that as it would involve giving someone other than CG credit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 How were you lied to on a consistent basis? Is stuff like Dallas Cowboys really such a big deal, or just ideas and possibilities that never got anywhere?You might think they should have told us all about screwing Whyte over from the start but consider if that would really have done our recovery any good, when we badly needed fans to be right behind the club.If it's not such a big deal, why would he feel the need to lie about it? Adidas as well? The debt-free stuff? Manchester United? The nonsense about £100m turnover? The name of Murray Park?You can write them off by saying they're not malicious but what they do is they get the fans hopes up that they finally have the right people in charge. He's a bullshitter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,979 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 McCoist wouldn't have allowed that, much like he didn't allow Charles to consider accepting title stripping.And...Charles accepted some of those punitive sanctions to get our license back. So why expect different from anyone else?I stated what was clearly my opinion that I believe other bidders would have conceded more and earlier than Green was forced to do due to coercion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 A liar is a liar is a liar. Give some examples of the 'lies' you are alluding to?'Rangers men' is a phrase used on here, mostly, to describe those that are seen as somehow better than the man who put up the cash when there was no one else wanting to.Gave a few in my reply to STB.I would say that the Rangers men are better than Rafat Rizvi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 A liar is a liar is a liar. Give some examples of the 'lies' you are alluding to?'Rangers men' is a phrase used on here, mostly, to describe those that are seen as somehow better than the man who put up the cash when there was no one else wanting to.I'm scathing of the phrase mainly because of the whole bidding saga where I kept hearing how it had to be the Blue Knights because of them being Rangers men, they were entitled to own us simply on that basis. Yet with several combined riches they scrimped and scraped to get us as cheaply as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Forgot about the Euro 2012 belter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Besides Green saying he "didn't care about title stripping."I have no reason to lie, believe it or not that's what CG said and it was Ally who put him straight. I don't expect you to accept that as it would involve giving someone other than CG credit.Give me a link to where he said that, even if it's a newspaper article. Can't be hard for you to find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Gave a few in my reply to STB.I would say that the Rangers men are better than Rafat Rizvi.You are aware of the whole story behind his 'conviction' in Indonesia?? The fact he is taking action against Indonesia after they nationalised the bank he had a major investment in? You really need to look behind the headlines.http://www.italaw.com/cases/1188 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 You are aware of the whole story behind his 'conviction' in Indonesia?? The fact he is taking action against Indonesia after they nationalised the bank he had a major investment in? You really need to look behind the headlines.I have and he's still not someone I'd feel comfortable in putting the money in to save our club. As Green gets the credit for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carsons Army 4,146 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Besides Green saying he "didn't care about title stripping."I have no reason to lie, believe it or not that's what CG said and it was Ally who put him straight. I don't expect you to accept that as it would involve giving someone other than CG credit.Besides Green saying he "didn't care about title stripping."I have no reason to lie, believe it or not that's what CG said and it was Ally who put him straight. I don't expect you to accept that as it would involve giving someone other than CG credit.I think CG stated that he "had no interest in engaging with the independent tribunal set up to examine the alleged use of dual contracts in the SPL" I don't recall him ever saying he did not care about title stripping.http://www.<No links to this website>/sport/football/football-news/charles-green-insists-rangers-titles-1497932http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/380944/Charles-Green-wants-SPL-apology-as-Rangers-title-stripping-threat-is-liftedhttp://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/threat-of-title-stripping-leaves-charles-green-opposed-to-spl-reconstruction-plans-1-2664355 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I have and he's still not someone I'd feel comfortable in putting the money in to save our club. As Green gets the credit for.How comfortable would you be with Dave King? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 If it's not such a big deal, why would he feel the need to lie about it? Adidas as well? The debt-free stuff? Manchester United? The nonsense about £100m turnover? The name of Murray Park?You can write them off by saying they're not malicious but what they do is they get the fans hopes up that they finally have the right people in charge. He's a bullshitter.Forgot about the Euro 2012 belter.Euro 2012 player stuff was still when we were in the SPL, i'm not entirely sure why he said it but whether it was true or not obviously it was never happening after getting relegated three divisions. All these issues are rather trivial you seem to agree, and getting carried away in interviews was a clear characteristic of Green's from the start, I think most fans knew to take some of his ambitions with a pinch of salt, it didn't make him the wrong person in charge as no-one is perfect. When I think of owners lying I think of Whyte saying he bought the club with his own money, Murray saying he'd only sell to the person with the best interests of the club at heart etc. I found Green running off at the mouth pretty minor in comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 McCoist was at all of the meetings of the 5 way agreement but I think it was a joint effort. He and the fans made Green aware of how unacceptable it would be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 How comfortable would you be with Dave King?Not very. Not implying he's guilty with the SARS stuff but I just don't trust many who would be in charge of our club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 McCoist was at all of the meetings of the 5 way agreement but I think it was a joint effort. He and the fans made Green aware of how unacceptable it would be.I've never denied McCoist had an input, there's just some pretty dramatic portrayals that make it sound as though McCoist had to physically restrain Green from handing over honours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Euro 2012 player stuff was still when we were in the SPL, i'm not entirely sure why he said it but whether it was true or not obviously it was never happening after getting relegated three divisions.All these issues are rather trivial you seem to agree, and getting carried away in interviews was a clear characteristic of Green's from the start, I think most fans knew to take some of his ambitions with a pinch of salt, it didn't make him the wrong person in charge as no-one is perfect. When I think of owners lying I think of Whyte saying he bought the club with his own money, Murray saying he'd only sell to the person with the best interests of the club at heart etc. I found Green running off at the mouth pretty minor in comparison.We were still in administration with the CVA just days away. It was nonsense and should have been nowhere near the list of priorities.As I said, if you're comfortable being lied to, and he did lie even though you like to dress it up, then fine but I'm not. He became a laughing stock and when he was questioned about it he completely froze.And they aren't trivial considering some of those statements was used to build up the fans' trust which he apparently still has. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I've never denied McCoist had an input, there's just some pretty dramatic portrayals that make it sound as though McCoist had to physically restrain Green from handing over honours.I know, I was sort of backing up your point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC Eagle 4,888 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Not very. Not implying he's guilty with the SARS stuff but I just don't trust many who would be in charge of our club.He admitted to falsifying his tax returns in court. Its not a matter of debate. I'm guessing the only people you'd trust would be Her Majesty and..... (I'm not really sure there's anyone with money without some kind of past). Businessmen are just that and will say what's needed at the time to keep the business in the spotlight or being attractive to investors. I understand your caution but at least we knew where we stood with CG. Some of the 'lies' quoted may have been truths at the point they were said but circumstances changed. No one is perfect but CG was better than what we have been left with (unless they are playing a very long game, which is doubtful) at standing up for the club. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the goal machine 7,989 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 He admitted to falsifying his tax returns in court. Its not a matter of debate. I'm guessing the only people you'd trust would be Her Majesty and..... (I'm not really sure there's anyone with money without some kind of past).Businessmen are just that and will say what's needed at the time to keep the business in the spotlight or being attractive to investors. I understand your caution but at least we knew where we stood with CG. Some of the 'lies' quoted may have been truths at the point they were said but circumstances changed.No one is perfect but CG was better than what we have been left with (unless they are playing a very long game, which is doubtful) at standing up for the club.I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I think Swansea's model is one that could have worked. A reputable, trustworthy fans trust or group having a significant share (20% for them) and a local, wealthy businessman who's a fan of the club in charge. Then the rest of the board would be people who knew how to operate a football club.I did appreciate him standing up for the club but he was out of control and was becoming a liability. The lies kept being questioned and he didn't have the answers and he hardly made an effort to stay when he left. He's now selling his shares and is going to make a very handsome profit. Think we can safely say goodbye to the Charles Green era. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublusince1982 768 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Euro 2012 player stuff was still when we were in the SPL, i'm not entirely sure why he said it but whether it was true or not obviously it was never happening after getting relegated three divisions.All these issues are rather trivial you seem to agree, and getting carried away in interviews was a clear characteristic of Green's from the start, I think most fans knew to take some of his ambitions with a pinch of salt, it didn't make him the wrong person in charge as no-one is perfect. When I think of owners lying I think of Whyte saying he bought the club with his own money, Murray saying he'd only sell to the person with the best interests of the club at heart etc. I found Green running off at the mouth pretty minor in comparison.it shows a pattern of deception, if he lied about such pointless facts without prompting why would you believe anything else he said? As far as title stripping goes CG was unwilling to pay for lawyers to defend the club stating it had nothing to do with the newco, it was Ally and MM who refused to accept it and went as far as to say they would resign if he accepted any titles being stripped. He also lied when he said the share money raised would not be used or needed to keep the club afloat, that is not trivial, if when he said it he was sure the money would not be needed to pay the bills then he is a very poor CEO. There was also far bigger lies he was trying to keep covered up when it comes to how the football side of the club would be ran, if you listen to his 40 odd minute interview on stv website you will see the interviewer trying to pin him on facts about scouting coaching etc but he continues to deflect with non answers until eventually he admits the role of head scout was defunct and no longer needed as we wouldnt have any scouts for him to be head of. You should be asking yourself how this could be and what does the interviewer know that hes trying to box CG into a lie about? when you figure that out you will get to one of the main reasons the rangers people as you call them wanted green gone as a matter of urgency. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 We were still in administration with the CVA just days away. It was nonsense and should have been nowhere near the list of priorities.As I said, if you're comfortable being lied to, and he did lie even though you like to dress it up, then fine but I'm not. He became a laughing stock and when he was questioned about it he completely froze.And they aren't trivial considering some of those statements was used to build up the fans' trust which he apparently still has.You're making it all sound rather black and white, it's not so much about being comfortable as i've always accepted Green has/had his bad points and him running off at the mouth was one, I just feel the good far outweighed the bad and the good is what he should mainly be remembered by.He personally built up my trust because of his role in rescuing the club and him generally being a breath of fresh air, it was never about Dallas Cowboys or players from the Euros. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Green's 'lies' are a matter of opinion.Are you for real? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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