The Seppuku of an internet blogger

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Or is it DK's money but minus DK taking a leading role? For example, inserting his 'man'

I suspect that would take a few by surprise RB

[Johnny Hubbard 280]

he's already lost £20million on us and has come back for more

We'd all do the same if we had the dosh of course

Rangers man ?...........he's fuckin'proved it already

he put more money into us than anyone else around.............

Thank fuck one of our own can help us on our way

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

he's already lost £20million on us and has come back for more

We'd all do the same if we had the dosh of course

Rangers man ?...........he's fuckin'proved it already

he put more money into us than anyone else around.............

Thank fuck one of our own can help us on our way

I dont think i have questioned if he is a Rangers man JH - its whether this Rangers man will give us the clarity and transparency we as a support crave.

[BlueAvenger 10,530]

My own opinion D'Art is that Dave King as majority shareholder is our best option because we need his wealth and backing. And our enemies fear this.

The Board / investors have been a shambles and I am not sure if they can provide further investment.

Same with McColl / Murray etc (McColl wont put his hand in his pocket).

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

We need a better fans' organisation. The existing groups (or should that be factions) all seem to either be self-seeking or virtually anonymous. I'd be happy to join and help run any new organisation. I don't want a seat on the board because of that. I don't want to run any new organisation, I'd simply want to help run it. I don't want my name in the papers as spokesman, I'd only be in favour of press releases. I don't want preferential treatment for tickets or special select meetings with the club directors. I just want an organisation where each fan gets one vote. We would all get our say. Such a group could have shareholders and non-shareholders as members.

Fan ownership is 99% certain not to happen and that is probably a good thing.

That's the issue - as well as having lost our faith in boards and potential boards we also have no faith in current fans organisations - it's all a bit of a mess really and yet given the opportunity I'd be willing , like you, to work tirelessly for the club with the only reward being Rangers success!

[Jocky Broon 207]

Apologies D'Art but I am going to take issue with you on your article and in particular to your isolation of the remarks of Judge Southwood in 2011. Now I am not going to defend King or his insider trading (which was not illegal at the time in South Africa)but there are a few facts that need to be pointed out regarding the South African Judiciary. Firstly they are politically appointed and not independent of the ruling political Party as in the UK. Next is the ruling Party in South Africa is the ANC who are regarded by many, many South Africans as totally corrupt and having looted South Africa since they took office in 1994.SARS is one of the ANC's weapons of choice to pursue rich White businessmen and relieve them of their wealth (one of the many reasons giant Corporates such as Old Mutual, Anglo American and SA Breweries sought listings on the LSE).King's 13 year running battle with SARS and the NPA was major headlines in South Africa during its tenure. The Media were used to character assassinate King and make him the devil incarnate amongst the general population which is quite typical of ANC tactics in conducting Trial by Media. Despite this campaign the NPA were never able to secure a conviction against King in a Court of Law mainly for lack of evidence. It would be a reasonable assumption to make then that by 2011 they were completely frustrated so lets consider Judge Southwood. He was appointed to the Transvaal Bar in 1993 and by 2004 his legal career had reached a frustrating ceiling. So he applied for a Senior Judge position in the Supreme Court of Appeal but unfortunately he wasn't accepted -

Judges grilled for posts

2004-10-28 08:43

Cape Town - Six candidates vying for three posts vacant at the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) were grilled on Wednesday by the Judicial Service Commission on a wide range of topics.

The commission is conducting week-long interviews to appoint people to the bench at the African Court of Human and Peoples' Rights, the Cape Provincial Division, the Natal Provincial Division, the Mmabatho High Court, the Transvaal Provincial Division and the Witwatersrand Local Division.

The last of the candidates interviewed for one of the SCA positions, Judge Brian Southwood, was asked about politics at the Pretoria Bar, if and how he helped transfer skills, and whether he thought South Africa had adequate intellectual property legislation, his professed field of expertise.

Justice Minister Bridget Mabandla seemed disappointed with Southwood's answer on the legislation question, saying she thought he would have been able to fill in the gaps.

'Legislation needs realignment'

"We think we need to realign our legislation. Not only us," said Mabandla.

Southwood said he felt South Africa was "in tune" with other countries, having an array of legislation such as the Copyright Act, Patents Act and Plant Breeders Rights Act.

Asked by advocate Milton Seligson SC, if there was room to relax patent laws in some areas, such as generic medicines, to benefit the poor, Southwood said it could be done.

Southwood said holders of patents should realise they had "moral obligations" to uphold, and should not only worry about commercial interests.

Southwood, who was appointed a judge in the Transvaal court in 1993, said he was applying for the SCA position because it was "more intellectually stimulating" and less tiring.

Southwood described himself as a liberal democrat, who during his tenure as chairman of the Pretoria Boys High School's governing body, had advocated an open admissions policy for all races.

'Must be something extra'

He said he treated everybody with courtesy and respect and had helped an employee of his with 27 years acquire a house, and helped provide her children with education.

"I would like to think that... I attempted to make the country a better place, maybe in a small way," he said.

Southwood was responding to a prompt from Trade and Industry Deputy Minister Lindiwe Hendricks, who was trying to gauge his temperament and said: "There must be something extra before we add another white judge (to the SCA".

Southwood said he was in favour of transforming the Pretoria Bar during the 1970s when black, Indian and coloured advocates were not admitted.

However, he admitted that he had not done anything to transfer intellectual property skills to other black or previously disadvantaged people.

Other candidates interviewed on Wednesday for the SCA positions included Judges Nkola John Motata, Visvanathan Moonsamy Ponnan, Dunstan Mlambo, Christopher Nyaole Jafta and Ronald Jonathan Wilshire Jones.

SAPA

Here comes the good news for Judge Southwood though. He was eventually appointed to the Supreme Court in April 2012 some 6 months after his remarks in Court towards King. No doubt 6 years of re-education and demonstrable proof of his allegiances and credentials were extremely helpful in his next application for promotion.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I would confess JB I have little or no knowledge of the judicial system in South Africa - I used that link as it was free of the faux morality of the Scottish media.

This is not about Judge Southwood - he is not the one who may be controlling our club in the near future. Are you saying his comments regarding King are false and erroneous ?

[Jocky Broon 207]

I would confess JB I have little or no knowledge of the judicial system in South Africa - I used that link as it was free of the faux morality of the Scottish media.

This is not about Judge Southwood - he is not the one who may be controlling our club in the near future. Are you saying his comments regarding King are false and erroneous ?

What I am attempting to say D'Art is that South Africa in itself is so corrupt that anyone who is reliant on the ANC, including Judges, has to tow the line if they wish to progress their career. You just cannot take anything that is Government oriented at face value and King was a target and expendable. As far as King himself is concerned I have a problem with how he conducted business in South Africa at the time he owned Specialised Outsourcings. However, in saying that I can understand why he did what he did as there was widespread concern about the political situation and many, many people wanted their money offshore and used any means to get it there. His Rangers credentials are unquestioned and I doubt he would try to pull a fast one here but after Whyte & Co you learn to trust nobody.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

What I am attempting to say D'Art is that South Africa in itself is so corrupt that anyone who is reliant on the ANC, including Judges, has to tow the line if they wish to progress their career. You just cannot take anything that is Government oriented at face value and King was a target and expendable. As far as King himself is concerned I have a problem with how he conducted business in South Africa at the time he owned Specialised Outsourcings. However, in saying that I can understand why he did what he did as there was widespread concern about the political situation and many, many people wanted their money offshore and used any means to get it there. His Rangers credentials are unquestioned and I doubt he would try to pull a fast one here but after Whyte & Co you learn to trust nobody.

I dont think for a moment he would pull a "fast one" either Jocky - but I do think a lot of people screaming for clarity, transparency and empowerment may find themselves disappointed.

[Jocky Broon 207]

I dont think for a moment he would pull a "fast one" either Jocky - but I do think a lot of people screaming for clarity, transparency and empowerment may find themselves disappointed.

Totally agree D'Art. We will get to hear what the Board want us to here and the rest will be left to the speculation of the Bloggers and Twitter experts.

[True Azure 1,414]

Slightly straying off topic, but I didn't see the media clamour when "deadly" Ernest Saunders (he, of the infamous Guinness fraud Four trial), managed to evade justice a few years back!!

Profile: Ernest Saunders; Out of jail and back in business

The Guinness fraudster is an obsessive with a fresh goal, says Jeremy Warner

There we all were in the Court of Appeal press gallery listening to what promised to be a long- haul medical debate on whether Ernest Saunders was suffering from pre-senile dementia. Beneath us sat banks of bewigged lawyers. And there was Ernest, ashen faced, out on a day trip from Ford Open Prison where he was serving five years for fraud. An eminent neurologist was attempting to show, with the help of flip charts, diagrams and scans, that Ernest's brain was abnormally small for a man of his age. It was showing shrinkage of the type normally associated with disease. "Well there you are," whispered the man from the Sun. "Not even Ernest is capable of conning a brain scanner." A few weeks later, Ernest was released, having served only 10 months of his sentence.

Five years on and Ernest appears to have made a recovery so miraculous that he is now heading a consortium bid for Queen's Park Rangers, the football team he first sponsored while chief executive of Guinness. To some extent he is also succeeding in rewriting history. His offences, the organisation of a secret share support operation of unparalleled scale and the payment of pounds 25m to his co-conspirators, are now seen by some as little more than a series of largely technical breaches of City rules. Many think him unfairly treated.

The first thing that needs to be known about Ernest Saunders is that he is a liar, if only partially accomplished. This can be written without fear of the libel courts because the evidence of it during his six-month trial was so overwhelming as to be virtually irrefutable. Only Ernest himself seemed incapable of accepting it. His accountants said it, his corporate legal advisers said it, his boardroom colleagues said it, even his co- defendants said it.

For his version of events to be true, all these people must have conspired to do down Ernest, who claimed to have known nothing of the skulduggery that took place during his pounds 2.7bn bid for Distillers. Furthermore, it stretches credulity to believe that a chief executive of Ernest's ability and grip on affairs could not have known about the mischief going on beneath his nose. Even the most blinkered, dozy, naive and ineffective of chief executives could not have helped but notice it. Mr Saunders was none of these things.

The second thing to know about Ernest is that he is a man of obsessions, great drive, energy, ambition and, yes, talent too. Who else at the age of 60, his criminal record still stamped on his passport, his name a byword for controversy and fraud, the bitterness of failure and disgrace still biting at his soul, would embark on such a wonderful enterprise as bidding for his old football club?

During his trial I once asked Ernest what he intended to do once it was all over. "Get out of this bloody country, that's for sure", was his answer. And perhaps, had he been acquitted, that is what he would have done. As it is he has stayed, the obsession of clearing his name now the latest of a long line of all-consuming passions. He was the same while at Guinness, where he revived what had become a moribund family-run company; the same during the great battle for Distillers, and the same as the storm clouds gathered, when his fight for survival would have looked truly heroic had not his position been so questionable.

Ernest's bid for QPR should be seen in this context; it is part of Ernest's campaign to rehabilitate himself. His efforts have not been without success. From being a pariah figure, Ernest once more lunches with the great and the good. Even Guinness directors, present and former, once banned from all contact with the man, greet him openly at functions. He has a range of consultancies, most notably with the Car Phone Warehouse, one of Britain's fastest growing companies. His advice is sought and valued. He commands quite a fee on the lecture circuit. Above all, Ernest wants to belong again and to be able to say, finally, that it was he who was right all along and everyone else who was wrong.

And here is the third thing you need to know about Ernest. He is essentially an outsider, a fact that explains both his determination to succeed and his refusal to accept compromise. The son of well to do Austrian Jewish emigres, he was bullied at school because of his German accent. Later he changed his name to one picked out of the telephone book. Ernest has always denied he tried to disguise his origins but certainly he wanted acceptance, he wanted to be one of us. His career path, too, was an odd one for a man who ended up as a captain of British industry. An early background in advertising gave way to a prolonged stint with the Swiss foods giant Nestle, a comfortable and affluent Continental way of life from which few ever return. Headhunted by the Guinness family, he was never accepted as one of them. They treated him like a gamekeeper, sitting him beneath the salt at family functions. To his mind, they ultimately betrayed him.

As did the business and City establishment once the great scandal of the Distillers take-overunfolded. Certainly Ernest made a convenient scapegoat for those who had used him. The small cluster of Jewish financiers eventually convicted over Guinness were only the tiny tip of the iceberg of culpability. What Mr Saunders and others caught up in the Guinness affair did was never common practice in the City, but before Guinness it was reasonable to believe you would get away with it. Many did.

Ernest should have run this line of argument as his defence. But he didn't and that is what ultimately sunk him and his other defendants, all of whom accused him of lying. It looked too much like thieves falling out. As one former Guinness director put it: "If Ernest had had the courage and humility to admit he had been wrong, to accept that he had got swept up in it all, misled by his City advisers, pushed the barriers too far, then he might have left Guinness with some modicum of pride and respect. After all, he had made the company a huge success. But he didn't. He refused to admit any shame."

And that's the fourth thing you need to know about Ernest. His great skill was always in marketing. Mr Saunders came to treat the truth like a commodity. Anything can be sold provided you believe in it enough. Ernest still thinks that eventually his version of events will triumph. And who knows? Less believable marketing campaigns than this one have come to succeed.

Mibbees, DK should start buying Guinness shares if he wants to rehabilitate his reputation with the British/Scottish/Sellick minded media in this country!!!!!!!

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I dont think i have questioned if he is a Rangers man JH - its whether this Rangers man will give us the clarity and transparency we as a support crave.

To be honest D'Art, if I crave anything for Rangers it's stability and success.

If we have that I'm not interested in who's in the Boardroom.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,790]

he's already lost £20million on us and has come back for more

We'd all do the same if we had the dosh of course

Rangers man ?...........he's fuckin'proved it already

he put more money into us than anyone else around.............

Thank fuck one of our own can help us on our way

Dave King Loyal, FUck the rest of the ponces !