Rangers and Scotland: How they turned our own nation against us

[Virtuoso 27,180]

8 hours ago, StaunchLondonGer said:

I don't pander to anyone mate. In fact, it's too much pandering that's allowed the narrative against us to gather momentum.

Nor am I paranoid. I just expressed my honest view on a subject that - as a passionate supporter of our club and heritage - I feel very strongly about . Naturally, you're welcome to disagree.

Ignore him, he's a troll.

Don't feed him.

[Inigo 33,338]

Becoming a bombscare of a thread.

2 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

What you really think of royalists. I bet you think we are only just misguided or some other mild word that you will use to prove you are better than me you republican scumbag. 

You aint doing yourself any favours here mate. You don't recognise that you can be a Republican and disagree with the view of Royalists whilst accepting that many people don't agree with you?

In general on this thread, while I agree with the general tenet that there are people clearly out to get Rangers and in particular the rump Unionist/Loyalist/Royalist (or whatever) support, and that there's no doubt that it's logical that many in the SNP would enjoy our demise, the venom towards any Rangers fan that doesn't tow a certain line is pretty repugnant. 

Sometimes it seems like all some people want on here is a back-slapping, self-reinforcing, nodding dog monoculture. 

[We Will Follow Rangers 13,397]

16 minutes ago, Inigo said:

 while I agree with the general tenet that there are people clearly out to get Rangers and in particular the rump Unionist/Loyalist/Royalist (or whatever) support, and that there's no doubt that it's logical that many in the SNP would enjoy our demise

the venom towards any Rangers fan that doesn't tow a certain line is pretty repugnant. 

 

Do you think perhaps these two things are linked?

Cause - effect.

[StaunchLondonGer 1,651]

19 hours ago, TEFTONG said:

Wish I had a "standing ovation" gif to put on here...Excellent piece. Ignore the minority of snp lovers and hand wringers who will try and pooh pooh your view.

I for one agree with 95% of it..Murray and King still need to deal with the daily rhebel up here..And keep on putting out statements that let the haters know that We are not taking any more of their Lies or half truths just to suit an agenda that has indeed vilified our Support our Club and now our Way of Life..

Keep up the good work mate.. 

cheers pal - a couple of the early responses from keyser soze and that bluepeter dude made me think my views were a bit "off kilter" with the guys on here. Glad to see that's not the case so much. And disagreement can be healthy anyway of course!

[Inigo 33,338]

Just now, wewillfollowrangers said:

Do you think perhaps these two things are linked?

Of course they are, but we have to bear in mind that just because I, or you, think it's the case that the SNP are x, y or z doesn't mean it's an incontrovertible fact. Some people don't see it that way. Some people may even see it that way but vote for the SNP, or whoever else, because they vote primarily on how they think it will benefit their family (however misguided you or I may think they are in that respect), rather than primarily on how it will benefit their football club. And there's nothing wrong with that, just as there's nothing wrong with you or I voting primarily down the lines of football if that's what we want to do.

 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

6 minutes ago, StaunchLondonGer said:

cheers pal - a couple of the early responses from keyser soze and that bluepeter dude made me think my views were a bit "off kilter" with the guys on here. Glad to see that's not the case so much. And disagreement can be healthy anyway of course!

Soze likes to confuse everyone  .He is temperamental but you get used to him 

[We Will Follow Rangers 13,397]

20 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Of course they are, but we have to bear in mind that just because I, or you, think it's the case that the SNP are x, y or z doesn't mean it's an incontrovertible fact. Some people don't see it that way. Some people may even see it that way but vote for the SNP, or whoever else, because they vote primarily on how they think it will benefit their family (however misguided you or I may think they are in that respect), rather than primarily on how it will benefit their football club. And there's nothing wrong with that, just as there's nothing wrong with you or I voting primarily down the lines of football if that's what we want to do.

 

I have no qualms about the Rangers support being a broad church in terms of political thinking, indeed I'd suggest its part of our culture to think for ourselves and not have regimented opinions decided by others.

 

However you cant separate the current toxic zeitgeist against our club and our support with the feelings of anger and betrayal towards those among our support who willfully vote for a political party who would rather see us die.

Regrettable , possibly, understandable, absofuckinglutely

[Inigo 33,338]

13 minutes ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

I have no qualms about the Rangers support being a broad church in terms of political thinking, indeed I'd suggest its part of our culture to think for ourselves and not have regimented opinions decided by others.

However you cant separate the current toxic zeitgeist against our club and our support with the feelings of anger and betrayal towards those among our support who willfully vote for a political party who would rather see us die.

I sure can. If it comes to voting for what I think is the best for my family, and what I think is the best for my club, my family wins. And it's quite possible that what's best for each won't necessarily be the same thing. I can well understand how a Rangers fan can vote for the SNP. I just happen not to think the SNP is best for me or my family, and doesn't align to my general political view. There are many reasons to vote any particular way and you don't always like everything the party you vote for does or everything it stands for. 

Put it this way, if you were absolutely convinced that the SNP gave your family the best chance for the best life and it was ideologically closest to what you believe in, but that, for argument's sake, the Tories were the best chance for your football club to be successful and not to be oppressed, how would you vote? I'd vote SNP, with some amount of sorrow that it all didn't align and I couldn't get everything I wanted.

It's just not as simple as some people want to see it.

[We Will Follow Rangers 13,397]

1 hour ago, Inigo said:

I sure can. If it comes to voting for what I think is the best for my family, and what I think is the best for my club, my family wins. And it's quite possible that what's best for each won't necessarily be the same thing. I can well understand how a Rangers fan can vote for the SNP. I just happen not to think the SNP is best for me or my family either, and doesn't align to my general political view. There are many reasons to vote any particular way and you don't always like everything the party you vote for does or everything it stands for. 

Put it this way, if you were absolutely convinced that the SNP gave your family the best chance for the best life and it was ideologically closest to what you believe in, but that, for argument's sake, the Tories were the best chance for your football club to be successful and not to be oppressed, how would you vote? I'd vote SNP, with some amount of sorrow that it all didn't align and I couldn't get everything I wanted.

It's just not as simple as some people want to see it.

I dont disagree with you, I 'm just offering a rational for the feelings of anger directed at those who espouse certain views.

I'm working class, a former socialist who turned his back on the left in Scotland because as an internationalist I see nationalism as a divisive and reactionary doctrine that belongs to the last century, the notion there could be a uniquely Scottish road to socialism is a contradiction to me which the left in Scotland are prepared to except, I cant. i will always have more bond with working class families in Liverpool, Birmingham or London than Edinburgh bankers or perthshire land owners. I could never vote conservative as they dont represent my class they represent theirs, the labour party are an unelectable farce, I can understand perfectly well why many feel that the day to day running of the country is best left where it is.

[Inigo 33,338]

Just now, wewillfollowrangers said:

I dont disagree with you, I 'm just offering a rational for the feelings of anger directed at those who espouse certain views.

I'm working class, a former socialist who turned his back on the left in scotland because as an internationalist I see nationalism as a divisive and reactionary doctrine that belongs to the last century, I could never vote conservative as they dont represent my class they represent theirs, the labour party are an unelectable farce, I can understand perfectly well why many feel that the day to day running of the country is best left where it is.

I am a socialist pretty much, and an internationalist as well, and I also dislike nationalism. I would never vote Tory (or anything right thereof) or SNP, and am aloso disappointed with how farcical Labour are, and how they're not really socialist any more anyway. But I respect the right of any Bear to disagree with me. 

I understand the rationale mate, I just wish people would be more, well, rational about it sometimes, and understand that there will always be people that vote for the SNP, or whoever else, for reasons that have nothing to do with football. .

[eejay the dj 31,964]

6 minutes ago, Inigo said:

I sure can. If it comes to voting for what I think is the best for my family, and what I think is the best for my club, my family wins. And it's quite possible that what's best for each won't necessarily be the same thing. I can well understand how a Rangers fan can vote for the SNP. I just happen not to think the SNP is best for me or my family, and doesn't align to my general political view. There are many reasons to vote any particular way and you don't always like everything the party you vote for does or everything it stands for. 

Put it this way, if you were absolutely convinced that the SNP gave your family the best chance for the best life and it was ideologically closest to what you believe in, but that, for argument's sake, the Tories were the best chance for your football club to be successful and not to be oppressed, how would you vote? I'd vote SNP, with some amount of sorrow that it all didn't align and I couldn't get everything I wanted.

It's just not as simple as some people want to see it.

What can the Snp do for us at this moment Inigo  ? Family wise .What do they offer .?It is my opinion ,every part in this Country are full of false promises .In other words ,I just wouldn't trust any of them .

So for me ,it will be all about what they do or don't do for my club I love .And that is a big fat Zero 

They are the enemy .That is 100% 

It is my opinion ,even the Catholic Church has told their parishioners to back them to the hilt .Although they would never get involved in politics of course .Aye right 

[A.T.G 10,773]

People forget that the whole independence referendum made our position even worse

If they had gotten the yes vote we would have been seen as traitors because we were still singing rule Britannia and flying Union jacks

All that referendum did was cause arguments amongst people and almost start riots

Tue government need to take a good fucking look at themselves, as does any bear that votes SNP

 

[Inigo 33,338]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

What can the Snp do for us at this moment Inigo  ? Family wise .What do they offer .?It is my opinion ,every part in this Country are full of false promises .In other words ,I just wouldn't trust any of them .

So for me ,it will be all about what they do or don't do for my club I love .And that is a big fat Zero 

They are the enemy .That is 100% 

It is my opinion ,even the Catholic Church has told their parishioners to back them to the hilt .Although they would never get involved in politics of course .Aye right 

That's not the argument I'm making, eejay. I don't think they can do anything, but then I don't vote for them.

People that do vote for them clearly think they can. That's just your average, everyday political disagreement.

Some people WILL think they represent a better choice for other reasons. Whether they are right or wrong is for political debate.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

3 minutes ago, Inigo said:

That's not the argument I'm making, eejay. I don't think they can do anything, but then I don't vote for them.

People that do vote for them clearly think they can. That's just your average, everyday political disagreement.

Some people WILL think they represent a better choice for other reasons. Whether they are right or wrong is for political debate.

I get that mate but I truly think most bears are right in saying  no genuine bear could possibly vote for them in this present  climate .

If they abolished Council tax ,I'd still never vote for them .

Maybe that would test a few .

[eejay the dj 31,964]

10 minutes ago, A.T.G said:

People forget that the whole independence referendum made our position even worse

If they had gotten the yes vote we would have been seen as traitors because we were still singing rule Britannia and flying Union jacks

All that referendum did was cause arguments amongst people and almost start riots

Tue government need to take a good fucking look at themselves, as does any bear that votes SNP

 

Believe me mate .The other option would have been a whole lot worse 

[A.T.G 10,773]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

Believe me mate .The other option would have been a whole lot worse 

Would have been a disaster

[Inigo 33,338]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

I get that mate but I truly think most bears are right in saying  no genuine bear could possibly vote for them in this present  climate .

If they abolished Council tax ,I'd still never vote for them .

Maybe that would test a few .

Part of the reason I argue so vehemently on this is that my other half, a Rangers ST holder of 25 odd years, one of her parents, a Rangers fan that was in Barcelona in 72, my father, a staunch Rangers fan for about 65 years, all voted SNP in the last few times, despite my best efforts.  

All of them every bit as die hard a Bear, or more so, than I am. No true Bear? Rubbish. For the reasons I gave before.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

11 minutes ago, Inigo said:

That's not the argument I'm making, eejay. I don't think they can do anything, but then I don't vote for them.

People that do vote for them clearly think they can. That's just your average, everyday political disagreement.

Some people WILL think they represent a better choice for other reasons. Whether they are right or wrong is for political debate.

I also know your pretty fair minded and would always see it from 'say Bp9s standpoint .It's that sensible quality you have 

On this one though .I will stick with my hatred of them.

[Inigo 33,338]

1 minute ago, eejay the dj said:

I also know your pretty fair minded and would always see it from 'say Bp9s standpoint .It's that sensible quality you have 

On this one though .I will stick with my hatred of them.

Hate the SNP all you want, eejay. I pretty much do to. 

But hate a Bear that votes for them? Sorry, not for me.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

6 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Part of the reason I argue so vehemently on this is that my other half, a Rangers ST holder of 25 odd years, one of her parents, a Rangers fan that was in Barcelona in 72, my father, a staunch Rangers fan for about 65 years, all voted SNP in the last few times, despite my best efforts.  

All of them every bit as die hard a Bear, or more so, than I am. No true Bear? Rubbish. For the reasons I gave before.

Ok mate .Uneducated bear or just plain ignorant 

[Inigo 33,338]

Just now, eejay the dj said:

Ok mate .Uneducated bear or just plain ignorant 

Ach shoosht, you. 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

5 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Hate the SNP all you want, eejay. I pretty much do to. 

But hate a Bear that votes for them? Sorry, not for me.

Can just imagine you driving around at the ref vote with all the Saltires and the Yes signs on your car .You with you solitary Rangers tie on .Kidding mate 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

3 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

We can prove our paranoia though. Starting with the shit printed in the sun about us using our kids as human shields at Hampden the other week. Or what about every team in the spl voting to boot us out for going into administration when it never happened to any other club before us. Opposition fans running on to the pitch to goad oir fans two years in a row fuelled by media targeting of our club. Was that all just paranoia?

The way you phrase it - it is paranoia! Absolutely!

[Inigo 33,338]

7 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

Can just imagine you driving around at the ref vote with all the Saltires and the Yes signs on your car .You with you solitary Rangers tie on .Kidding mate 

My family was a somewhat stressful situation during the ref. I continually badgered my mum, dad, bird and bird's maw. My bird's dad (also a Bear) was a fellow No voter.

My achievement was persuading my brother and his Mrs to vote No. 

To this day, I badger my Mrs. I think I'm getting there with her tbh. I can sense a change. Although my dad and mum are probably too set in their ways and just look at me like I'm full of shit. In that they can probably agree with many on this forum. 

Tbh, my Mrs is the one Yes voter you should have sympathy for. After my many years of posting, just imagine how difficult it would be to live with me and have to actually listen to me. 

[KeyserSoze 15,289]

14 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Part of the reason I argue so vehemently on this is that my other half, a Rangers ST holder of 25 odd years, one of her parents, a Rangers fan that was in Barcelona in 72, my father, a staunch Rangers fan for about 65 years, all voted SNP in the last few times, despite my best efforts.  

All of them every bit as die hard a Bear, or more so, than I am. No true Bear? Rubbish. For the reasons I gave before.

Inigo   I think with nearly half of Scotland voting SNP this is mirrored in many Rangers loving households.

it is nice your family feel the need to separate politics from football - the way I think it should be.