Weathergirls and Rangers

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

WEATHERGIRLS?..ALLPORT & RANGERS

Do you remember weathergirl Kirsty McCabe referring to Ibrox Park as ?Castle Greyskull?. A no. of outraged Bears contacted the BBC to make a complaint regarding this. Some suggested we were over the top and should ignore it.

Well were we over the top ?

And this is where Mr Allport fits in. Who the hell is Allport you may ask ? Well among other things?Allport was the psychologist who analysed the process which allowed 6 million Jews to be exterminated in the Nazi genocide. Allport identified that there were 5 ways (Antilocution, Avoidance, Discrimination, Physical Attack, Extermination) now known as Allports Scale, which allowed prejudice to manifest itself. Each level included a wide range of behaviour which could include name calling, jokes, stereotyping, through to discrimination, refusal of service?denial of opportunity?..physical assaults eventually reaching the far end of the scale?that of extermination.

But lets just pause here for the briefest of moments?.lets not agree with what is written just because I?m a fellow Bear?..lets put Allports Scale to the test and see if there really is something going on which justifies becoming outraged at a weathergirls jibe.

Name calling/stereo typing/jokes?.well lets start with the term ?h**? . Numerous complaints have been made to a wide area of the media regarding the use of this term?.but it is still used. I don?t need to go into the various examples?we are all well aware?.or how about ?Dirty Orange Bastards? (also known as ?DOB?s?)?step forward Mr Lennon or Mr Leckie?..without fear of prosecution I may add.

Of course any objection to this mocking is met with stout resistance. After all we are seeking to demonise a group of people?to portray them as something less than worthless?so perish the thought they have a voice or object to being victimised. Perhaps then you begin to understand the venom of Graham Spiers attacks and his regular and frequent attempts to portray Rangers supporters who stand up for themselves as ?paranoid besrekers?. Remember what Allport said? ?denial of opportunity?.

To understand how far up the scale we are with regard to the demonising of Rangers Supporters by use of jokes I give you further proof. Ron McKays comments in the Sunday a Herald a few years ago where he mocked the Ibrox Disaster must surely be a benchmark as to how far we have come. Ask yourselves ?when did you ever hear of the Heysel Stadium/Bradford Fire/Hillsborough ever being the subject of a journo?s jokes ?

And then of course there is the ridiculing of the good. The card display at the Milan game was outstanding?..yet how is it described?.? It is likened to a Nuremberg Rally. And yet only a few weeks later the ?Prime Minister in waiting? urges us all to show more pride in the Union Flag. Guess what Gordon?.apparently you are a Nazi for that comment.

But guess what it gets worse. Aberdeen fans mocking the Ibrox Disaster are reported as singing ?Nice One Jimmy??.by the same journalist who describes Ranger fans as being responsible for a ?stream of sectarian bile?. If you can?t ridicule?then just make up lies. Or have we moved onto Discrimination ?

Lets take 2 videos. Donald Findlay ?and of course Hartson & Pearson. Ask yourselves?was the reporting of these 2 videos balanced?impartial?fair ?

The BBC didn?t think the Hartson/Pearson video even warranted a report. Yet when a young Blue Peter presenter mentioned the flag of her country she was forced by the BBC to issue an apology and reprimanded. Anyone think if she had been from anywhere other than Northern Ireland this would never have happened ? Me neither.

And those who think that this discrimination is all in the head?.go and get a second opinion. Ask some of the bears arrested on their last visit to Parkhead whether they thought they were discriminated against?. as they were led away for committing sectarian offences whilst the sounds of ?sad Orange bastard? rang in their ears from 50,000 people apparently above the law that day.

And how is it that the sectarian charity Nil By Mouth?seem to ignore the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters ? Why do they remain silent on this issue when they condemn the sectarian murder of Celtic supporters. ? Is this just discrimination or have we reached the final stage of Allports scale?.extermination ?

Where the murder of a Rangers supporter is treated differently to the murder of a Celtic supporter and is not even mentioned.

So we have reached the far end of the scale?.I would like to think that what is written is my paranoia?my bias?.my blue tinted specs. But where the arguments are supported by facts it becomes alarming.

Judge for yourselves?.you are all free thinking.

RANGERS FOREVER

[Dado 334]

Some undeniable facts in there that you cant disagree with.

It gives some of the Pro-Murray supporters something to think about.

[Guest Manticore]

Thing is D'Artagnan, the campaign is so well advanced that many on our side are taken in.

They've fallen for the various myths 'oh yes we have a wee problem, but nothing like them' etc

They think we deserve the abuse, because we are the bigots.

I challenge them, where is the bigotry or sectarianism in this? Could be a song, could be a red hand, could be a flag.

Guess what? They never ever come back with an explanation.

Hopefully some have taken the point but I suspect that most of them, rather than realise that their views are poorly informed, will just be muttering something like 'no point in arguing with bigots'.

Because to a lot of them you and I (and a few others) are unsaveable bigots.

It's going to be a long struggle, but at least it's started.

[blueben_d 40]

Some undeniable facts in there that you cant disagree with.

It gives some of the Pro-Murray supporters something to think about.

I'm not sure Mr Murray can be held accountable for this.

He could have done more to uphold our name however

[dummiesoot 16,115]

Until Rangers and I mean Murray, Bain, the supporters trust & the Jim McMillan all together (live on TV) make a stand instead of letting the "WATP is bigotted" brigade, Speirs et al, spout their own brand of bile we will be vilified, victimised and demonised.

Whilst we have to observe the utter hypocrisy of the ragtops, with the less intelligent among our population unable tell the difference between gutter snipe journos and the whole truth, then we will regularly be seen as an easy target.

At least Lawell on the other side, stands up for his club, even though a lot of the time it is rubbish spouting forth from his mouth. The press give Celtic less of a hard time on this issue.

Nil by Mouth - don't get me started, only works, as you have suggesed D'Artagnan, one way they stay strangley silent when the rangers fan is the victim.

Are we getting to the stage where the press will say "well he was a Rangers fan so he had it coming"

[Guest Manticore]

Are we getting to the stage where the press will say "well he was a Rangers fan so he had it coming"

I think that fits in with D'Artagnan's 'Allport' hypothesesis.

I think of it as the 'Protestant = Bigot' campaign.

[Airdriebear 0]

i think manticore is correct here, if you call a shovel a spade long enough people will start to agree wth you, and i think this is what is happening at our club.

people shout from the roof tops about rangers being a bigotted club with bigotted supporters, the more they shout the more people tend to believe.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

D'Artagnan, i commend you for the amount of thought and effort you have put into the post.

And to a certain extent i agree. There is a hate campaign in the media agaibnst Rangers at the moment, and has been for about 20 years now. The problem with this is that a genocide usually occurs pretty quickly after the Discrimination stage. If you look at most genocides in the last century or so. ie, the Nazi genocide, the Rwandan Genocide and also now the one taking place in Zimbabwe. The victims always seem to be discriminated against just before the executions start. But in this case (ours), we have been at the same stage for a long time now. That is why i don't think we fit into the "scale" as such.

But i have to agree that what some of these people get away with is disgusting. Look at the Sun a couple of months ago when they printed the headline "Saddest h** In The West" reffering to PLG after one of our defeats. Was this reported? No. Was any action taken after the thousands of complaints from Rangers fans? Of course not. But apparently this is completely fine in this ountry. But just don't try and wave the flag of your country because you will be no better than a member of one of the most evil organisations in Modern History.

It is about time we stood up as one, as a Rangers Family, as Mr Murray refers to us as. But unfortunately this won't happen due to the fact that everyone in the support is divided. We call each other "bigots" not just the media. Many (if not most) have been baited in by these scumbags and now believe that we are a bigotted club and that we should all be ashamed of our club.

NO CHANCE. STAND UP AND SPEAK UP.

WATP

[Ibroxblue 122]

Genocide? :wacko: The paranoia and hysteria is getting out of control here.

I'm certainly not saying there is nothing to complain about in the media. But a lot of Celtic fans will tell you that the media are out to get them. And a lot of fans of other clubs will tell you the media is pro-Old Firm.

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

[dummiesoot 16,115]

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

you forgot totally hypocritical!

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Genocide? :wacko: The paranoia and hysteria is getting out of control here.

I'm certainly not saying there is nothing to complain about in the media. But a lot of Celtic fans will tell you that the media are out to get them. And a lot of fans of other clubs will tell you the media is pro-Old Firm.

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale.

However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ?

[Moomin 0]

Castle Greyskull is where He-man lives. Why would anyone take offence to that?

[Ibroxblue 122]

Genocide?  :wacko:  The paranoia and hysteria is getting out of control here.

I'm certainly not saying there is nothing to complain about in the media. But a lot of Celtic fans will tell you that the media are out to get them. And a lot of fans of other clubs will tell you the media is pro-Old Firm.

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale.

However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ?

I seriously doubt if Nil By Mouth do that.

[Guest orangpendek]

manticore

i can't agree with you and this why.

i don't like the bigotry and homophobic abuse i heard and if i'm honest used to join in with at ibrox.

i care not a jot what the media say, that's why i am on a fans forum and not using tv radio or the press. screw them.

i care not a jot whether the other side are better or worse coz i don't care about them, or anything to do with them.

i have not, therefore, been taken in by anyone or anything. i have my opinion and that's that.

where is the bigotry? well, the songs, the chants, and the abuse directed at any player with a connection to that lovely country, ireland. that has been cut right down and i'm glad about it.

are there people bigoted agaist rangers? course there are. so what? as i said before, screw them. if they are the guy in the pub that never shuts up about religion, drink somewhere else. if they are a journalist, buy another paper. if they're a commentator, turn the sound off. if they are the insufferably holier-than-thou nil by mouth, and i admit it's not easy, ignore them. They just don't matter and in the long run will be forgotten (i can't agree with the slippery slope towards de-personalisation thesis. i reckon it's just some fairly dim people who alas have an outlet for their views).

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Genocide?  :wacko:  The paranoia and hysteria is getting out of control here.

I'm certainly not saying there is nothing to complain about in the media. But a lot of Celtic fans will tell you that the media are out to get them. And a lot of fans of other clubs will tell you the media is pro-Old Firm.

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale.

However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ?

I seriously doubt if Nil By Mouth do that.

You doubt....so you dont know ?

Did you read the comments by other contributors to this thread ?

[Guest orangpendek]

Castle Greyskull is where He-man lives. Why would anyone take offence to that?

skeletor would!

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

manticore

i can't agree with you and this why.

i don't like the bigotry and homophobic abuse i heard and if i'm honest used to join in with at ibrox.

i care not a jot what the media say, that's why i am on a fans forum and not using tv radio or the press. screw them.

i care not a jot whether the other side are better or worse coz i don't care about them, or anything to do with them.

i have not, therefore, been taken in by anyone or anything. i have my opinion and that's that.

where is the bigotry? well, the songs, the chants, and the abuse directed at any player with a connection to that lovely country, ireland. that has been cut right down and i'm glad about it.

are there people bigoted agaist rangers? course there are. so what? as i said before, screw them. if they are the guy in the pub that never shuts up about religion, drink somewhere else. if they are a journalist, buy another paper. if they're a commentator, turn the sound off. if they are the insufferably holier-than-thou nil by mouth, and i admit it's not easy, ignore them. They just don't matter and in the long run will be forgotten (i can't agree with the slippery slope towards de-personalisation thesis. i reckon it's just some fairly dim people who alas have an outlet for their views).

What about dek when what the media and press are saying has an impact on our club ?

Or are you of the opinion that it has no effect at all ?

[Ibroxblue 122]

Genocide?? :wacko:? The paranoia and hysteria is getting out of control here.

I'm certainly not saying there is nothing to complain about in the media. But a lot of Celtic fans will tell you that the media are out to get them. And a lot of fans of other clubs will tell you the media is pro-Old Firm.

My own view is that the media tend to be sensationalist, lazy and generally useless.

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale.

However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ?

I seriously doubt if Nil By Mouth do that.

You doubt....so you dont know ?

Did you read the comments by other contributors to this thread ?

Yes I did.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

manticore

i can't agree with you and this why.

i don't like the bigotry and homophobic abuse i heard and if i'm honest used to join in with at ibrox.

i care not a jot what the media say, that's why i am on a fans forum and not using tv radio or the press. screw them.

i care not a jot whether the other side are better or worse coz i don't care about them, or anything to do with them.

i have not, therefore, been taken in by anyone or anything. i have my opinion and that's that.

where is the bigotry? well, the songs, the chants, and the abuse directed at any player with a connection to that lovely country, ireland. that has been cut right down and i'm glad about it.

are there people bigoted agaist rangers? course there are. so what? as i said before, screw them. if they are the guy in the pub that never shuts up about religion, drink somewhere else. if they are a journalist, buy another paper. if they're a commentator, turn the sound off. if they are the insufferably holier-than-thou nil by mouth, and i admit it's not easy, ignore them. They just don't matter and in the long run will be forgotten (i can't agree with the slippery slope towards de-personalisation thesis. i reckon it's just some fairly dim people who alas have an outlet for their views).

Post of the day. Well said that man.

But do you agree that we should be standing together as a club and not be so divided by this issue that we slag each other off? I am not religious in any way and have Irish blood in me. But i support Rangers, that is my club and i am proud of it. I am also proud to be British. That is what links us as fans, we love the Glasgow Rangers. Who cares what the rest think, in the words of the great song "No-one likes us, we don't care".

But what we cnnot allow is for the press to make our club a laughing stock or say that all of our fans are bigots. That must be stopped and that is why we need a united not divided support.

WATP

[machine! 15]

My mate is a rangers community coach and has to do work for nil by mouth from time to time, and he says that if a kid ever asks how celtic get started they have to rattle off a long spiel about how they were a great force for social good and rangers were just some rowers that fancied a game of fitba!

[Guest orangpendek]

blue and d'artagnan

i would like to stand together as a club but i have some small reservations, to wit:

i worry that to backtrack one inch on this subject will let the person that i was (i don't deny it) right back into the east enclosure. i feel a 'zero tolerance' appraoch for a coupla years in needed, altho harsh.

as i say, i chose to ignore the dumplings of the press so i may be a little out of touch. if they say all rangers fans are bigots, well, that's certainly annoying but it shows the level of their intellect and arguement - down in the gutter. i daresay their ramblings do have an effect on the image of the club and that's dissappointing, but it is also reality. the vast majority of people in scotland chose, quite freely, to buy those receptacles of garbage the sun and the record. no point in thinking they are all rangers haters. we have made them what they are so can hardly complain when they act badly. sort of 'prometheus unbound' only with jim traynor as the monster and bill leckie as igor, the useless lab assistant.

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

blue and d'artagnan

i would like to stand together as a club but i have some small reservations, to wit:

i worry that to backtrack one inch on this subject will let the person that i was (i don't deny it) right back into the east enclosure. i feel a 'zero tolerance' appraoch for a coupla years in needed, altho harsh.

as i say, i chose to ignore the dumplings of the press so i may be a little out of touch. if they say all rangers fans are bigots, well, that's certainly annoying but it shows the level of their intellect and arguement - down in the gutter. i daresay their ramblings do have an effect on the image of the club and that's dissappointing, but it is also reality. the vast majority of people in scotland chose, quite freely, to buy those receptacles of garbage the sun and the record. no point in thinking they are all rangers haters. we have made them what they are so can hardly complain when they act badly. sort of 'prometheus unbound' only with jim traynor as the monster and bill leckie as igor, the useless lab assistant.

You are right to stand by your prinicipals.

I am in the East Enclosure too.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

blue and d'artagnan

i would like to stand together as a club but i have some small reservations, to wit:

i worry that to backtrack one inch on this subject will let the person that i was (i don't deny it) right back into the east enclosure. i feel a 'zero tolerance' appraoch for a coupla years in needed, altho harsh.

as i say, i chose to ignore the dumplings of the press so i may be a little out of touch. if they say all rangers fans are bigots, well, that's certainly annoying but it shows the level of their intellect and arguement - down in the gutter. i daresay their ramblings do have an effect on the image of the club and that's dissappointing, but it is also reality. the vast majority of people in scotland chose, quite freely, to buy those receptacles of garbage the sun and the record. no point in thinking they are all rangers haters. we have made them what they are so can hardly complain when they act badly. sort of 'prometheus unbound' only with jim traynor as the monster and bill leckie as igor, the useless lab assistant.

Thats fair comment dek...but is not a great part of your own statement a case of exercising self control ?

I appreciate that there are a no. amongst our support who find that particularly difficult as evidenced by the ftp brigade and those who persist in trying to sing TBB...despite the damage it coud bring to our club.

However I think that banning all our traditional songs...which have been proven via the legal system to be non-sectarian in nature....would equally have a negative backlash.

A bit of a case of damned if I do damned if I dont.

However I loved the mad professor and lab assistant analogy.

[Guest Manticore]

i don't like the bigotry and homophobic abuse i heard and if i'm honest used to join in with at ibrox.

where is the bigotry? well, the songs, the chants, and the abuse directed at any player with a connection to that lovely country, ireland. that has been cut right down and i'm glad about it.

I am not here to defend bigotry or homophobia.

My problem is with things which are not bigotted being reviled as bigotted.

So humour me, which songs and chants do you have in mind?

As for 'abuse directed at any player with a connection to that lovely country, ireland', what do you have in mind there?

[Guest orangpendek]

well, when the likes of stokes got the ball, he got booed. or noel whelan. or that boy at motherwell, can't recall his name. it strikes me as a bit childish, which is not especially harmful so i don't get so worked up as the media. but we have to grow out that sort of behaviour eventually, in my opinion. i mean, why are the roi players booed? cause they have funny accents? i think we know the reason.

i don't see why we have to ban all our songs. anything which doesn't have what you might term hate directed at somone or something seems to be unacceptable nowadays, so leave them. i really miss the billy boys, btw. there's been times this year when i thought, sod it, how can it make things worse? and just get up and start singing! but, and this is where the self control comes in, i simply can't anymore and i can see why, if i'm honest.

i should in the interests of honesty state clearly here i find religions absurd and so am happy to be labelled bigoted against them. the point is i will display my contempt for brahma, ahura mazda, the moderator or the pope in an arena more suited to it than a football stadium.