The famine's over

[Frankie 505]

So because he's a known Celtic fan........it's ok for us to ask him why he doesn't go home to Ireland ? It's not about me being personally offended, it's about how this reflects on my club. Not just from those across the city that are looking to be offended, but from the reasonable man on the street.......and the reasonable man on the street would take a dim view to such chants.

As for the Hearts game.........do you not sit in the Broomloan ? I was in the Broomloan for the Hearts game, row H behind the goals. And it was being sung loud and clear there. I was also at the Liverpool and Kaunus games (Main stand and govan), but the Hearts game was the loudest I've heard the song belted out.

As for our supporters being singled out............when and by whom ? I know that it happens, guys being ejected from the stadium for example for singing what are deemed offensive songs. Is that what you mean ?

I didn't say it was OK to sing it at him. But he certainly took the song in good jest as he's more than aware if one dishes it out, then can expect it back. Again, a pointless retort to his regular goading IMO, but hardly the end of the world.

Yes, I sit in the Broomloan and no, I did not hear that song.

Regarding our supporters being singled out, can you remember our supporters being 90 times more likely to be arrested at Celtic Park a few years ago? Also, how often do you see Celtic songs being judged by the police? Can you remind me when they have been reported to the SPL/UEFA? Also, what fine did they get?

They are not subject to the same scrutiny and policing as we are. That's disgraceful and that's what I'm more worried about than a boring bit of oneupmanship at a plastic paddy's expense being wrongly interpreted by the 'reasonable man on the street'. He doesn't seem to say much when it's songs about h***, disasters, protestants or our players dying so you'll excuse me for taking issue with his ignorance here.

[ScotBear 144]

See if the chant was sung only in response to IRA chants when Celtic were in town.............I could see a reasonable argument for it.

But when it's sung randomly, regardless of the opposition, and sung at players just because they are Celtic fans............then I think any argument is lost, and it just becomes another song, despite the reasonable intentions some may have, which can be reasonably interpreted as bigoted.

Put this question to a respected English sports journalist, for example, and I wonder what reply they'd give. Would the reasonable, unbiased, man on the street back the point of view that the chant is fine ? No chance.

[Frankie 505]

See if the chant was sung only in response to IRA chants when Celtic were in town.............I could see a reasonable argument for it.

But when it's sung randomly, regardless of the opposition, and sung at players just because they are Celtic fans............then I think any argument is lost, and it just becomes another song, despite the reasonable intentions some may have, which can be reasonably interpreted as bigoted.

Put this question to a respected English sports journalist, for example, and I wonder what reply they'd give. Would the reasonable, unbiased, man on the street back the point of view that the chant is fine ? No chance.

Since when did the reasonable, unbiased, man of the street dictate policing and football authority policy?

I agree the song is pointless but it's certainly not bigoted and for it to be singled out while others are constantly ignored is laughable.

[Jelle1880 300]

Does he have to ?

No.

[ScotBear 144]

Regarding our supporters being singled out, can you remember our supporters being 90 times more likely to be arrested at Celtic Park a few years ago? Also, how often do you see Celtic songs being judged by the police? Can you remind me when they have been reported to the SPL/UEFA? Also, what fine did they get?

They are not subject to the same scrutiny and policing as we are. That's disgraceful and that's what I'm more worried about than a boring bit of oneupmanship at a plastic paddy's expense being wrongly interpreted by the 'reasonable man on the street'. He doesn't seem to say much when it's songs about h***, disasters, protestants or our players dying so you'll excuse me for taking issue with his ignorance here.

I go to all the home games, and I've only ever seen one guy ejected from the stadium. No idea what it was for, but one guy from the countless games I've been to. That's my experience. Others seem to experience different. That's fine, that's normal, but I can't take as 'fact' the experiences of a handful of other Rangers fans on-line (not in terms of their story being false, but that there is an abnormal problem in terms of how we are treated compared to 'them'), when myself and others don't encounter such problems.

As for the UEFA fine...........we've had that debate before, was an interesting discussion but was long winded and I don't think it's worth turning this into another 20 pager on that one topic ! We've both said our piece on that before

So just to go back to scrutiny from police, etc.........I really don't know about that. Like I say, I have my own experience, I've heard negative views from others on how we are treated...........and as to how Celtic fans are treated by police........I really have no idea. How would I ? Just heard the odd story of some of them being flung out, as some of our fans have.

[Bakbear 3,586]

See if the chant was sung only in response to IRA chants when Celtic were in town.............I could see a reasonable argument for it.

But when it's sung randomly, regardless of the opposition, and sung at players just because they are Celtic fans............then I think any argument is lost, and it just becomes another song, despite the reasonable intentions some may have, which can be reasonably interpreted as bigoted.

Put this question to a respected English sports journalist, for example, and I wonder what reply they'd give. Would the reasonable, unbiased, man on the street back the point of view that the chant is fine ? No chance.

Ah the "B" word

Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

How do Rangers fans always manage to get labelled Bigots, usually by our opposition, often by the media and occasionally by politicians.... and here we are being called bigots by our own fans.

Celtic Fan "We want to blow your country up and we want our country to be free of Imperial yoke"

Rangers Fan "why don't you go home then"

Celtic fan "Bigot"

[Jelle1880 300]

Regarding our supporters being singled out, can you remember our supporters being 90 times more likely to be arrested at Celtic Park a few years ago? Also, how often do you see Celtic songs being judged by the police? Can you remind me when they have been reported to the SPL/UEFA? Also, what fine did they get?

They are not subject to the same scrutiny and policing as we are. That's disgraceful and that's what I'm more worried about than a boring bit of oneupmanship at a plastic paddy's expense being wrongly interpreted by the 'reasonable man on the street'. He doesn't seem to say much when it's songs about h***, disasters, protestants or our players dying so you'll excuse me for taking issue with his ignorance here.

I go to all the home games, and I've only ever seen one guy ejected from the stadium. No idea what it was for, but one guy from the countless games I've been to. That's my experience. Others seem to experience different. That's fine, that's normal, but I can't take as 'fact' the experiences of a handful of other Rangers fans on-line (not in terms of their story being false, but that there is an abnormal problem in terms of how we are treated compared to 'them'), when myself and others don't encounter such problems.

As for the UEFA fine...........we've had that debate before, was an interesting discussion but was long winded and I don't think it's worth turning this into another 20 pager on that one topic ! We've both said our piece on that before

So just to go back to scrutiny from police, etc.........I really don't know about that. Like I say, I have my own experience, I've heard negative views from others on how we are treated...........and as to how Celtic fans are treated by police........I really have no idea. How would I ? Just heard the odd story of some of them being flung out, as some of our fans have.

How about the people being ejected for waving a Northern Ireland flag at away games ?

For having a BJK scarf ?

[minstral 5,375]

Regarding our supporters being singled out, can you remember our supporters being 90 times more likely to be arrested at Celtic Park a few years ago? Also, how often do you see Celtic songs being judged by the police? Can you remind me when they have been reported to the SPL/UEFA? Also, what fine did they get?

They are not subject to the same scrutiny and policing as we are. That's disgraceful and that's what I'm more worried about than a boring bit of oneupmanship at a plastic paddy's expense being wrongly interpreted by the 'reasonable man on the street'. He doesn't seem to say much when it's songs about h***, disasters, protestants or our players dying so you'll excuse me for taking issue with his ignorance here.

I go to all the home games, and I've only ever seen one guy ejected from the stadium. No idea what it was for, but one guy from the countless games I've been to. That's my experience. Others seem to experience different. That's fine, that's normal, but I can't take as 'fact' the experiences of a handful of other Rangers fans on-line (not in terms of their story being false, but that there is an abnormal problem in terms of how we are treated compared to 'them'), when myself and others don't encounter such problems.

As for the UEFA fine...........we've had that debate before, was an interesting discussion but was long winded and I don't think it's worth turning this into another 20 pager on that one topic ! We've both said our piece on that before

So just to go back to scrutiny from police, etc.........I really don't know about that. Like I say, I have my own experience, I've heard negative views from others on how we are treated...........and as to how Celtic fans are treated by police........I really have no idea. How would I ? Just heard the odd story of some of them being flung out, as some of our fans have.

funny how they can wave any banners they like at parkhead, yet our fans get thrown out for waving banners.

[HighlandBear 1]

Regarding our supporters being singled out, can you remember our supporters being 90 times more likely to be arrested at Celtic Park a few years ago? Also, how often do you see Celtic songs being judged by the police? Can you remind me when they have been reported to the SPL/UEFA? Also, what fine did they get?

They are not subject to the same scrutiny and policing as we are. That's disgraceful and that's what I'm more worried about than a boring bit of oneupmanship at a plastic paddy's expense being wrongly interpreted by the 'reasonable man on the street'. He doesn't seem to say much when it's songs about h***, disasters, protestants or our players dying so you'll excuse me for taking issue with his ignorance here.

I go to all the home games, and I've only ever seen one guy ejected from the stadium. No idea what it was for, but one guy from the countless games I've been to. That's my experience. Others seem to experience different. That's fine, that's normal, but I can't take as 'fact' the experiences of a handful of other Rangers fans on-line (not in terms of their story being false, but that there is an abnormal problem in terms of how we are treated compared to 'them'), when myself and others don't encounter such problems.

As for the UEFA fine...........we've had that debate before, was an interesting discussion but was long winded and I don't think it's worth turning this into another 20 pager on that one topic ! We've both said our piece on that before

So just to go back to scrutiny from police, etc.........I really don't know about that. Like I say, I have my own experience, I've heard negative views from others on how we are treated...........and as to how Celtic fans are treated by police........I really have no idea. How would I ? Just heard the odd story of some of them being flung out, as some of our fans have.

Try sitting in the corner of the West Enclosure on old firm day? Or try going to parkhead, & see how we are treated their, as well as pittodrie & several other away grounds.

Do you have a sand pit by your seat?

[ScotBear 144]

Ah the "B" word

Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

How do Rangers fans always manage to get labelled Bigots, usually by our opposition, often by the media and occasionally by politicians.... and here we are being called bigots by our own fans.

Celtic Fan "We want to blow your country up and we want our country to be free of Imperial yoke"

Rangers Fan "why don't you go home then"

Celtic fan "Bigot"

The Celtic support are packed with bigots. Nobody here is saying that they are not. They sing about h***, the IRA, Orange b*stards.........

Their club have come out with statements to try and tell their fans to behave. They have stated that they can get thrown out of Parkhead for using the word h** and the word has been banned from their official messageboard. Yet the desired impact has still not been made.

This is not the issue here though. I don't see why such a debate has to always descend into the playground mentality of............but sir, he done it too !!

What they do has no bearing whatsoever in terms of what I deem to be reasonable behaviour and the concern I have in terms of how my club is looked upon.

[Jelle1880 300]

Ah the "B" word

Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

How do Rangers fans always manage to get labelled Bigots, usually by our opposition, often by the media and occasionally by politicians.... and here we are being called bigots by our own fans.

Celtic Fan "We want to blow your country up and we want our country to be free of Imperial yoke"

Rangers Fan "why don't you go home then"

Celtic fan "Bigot"

The Celtic support are packed with bigots. Nobody here is saying that they are not. They sing about h***, the IRA, Orange b*stards.........

Their club have come out with statements to try and tell their fans to behave. They have stated that they can get thrown out of Parkhead for using the word h** and the word has been banned from their official messageboard.

This is not the issue here though. I don't see why such a debate has to always descend into the playground mentality of............but sir, he done it too !!

What they do has no bearing whatsoever in terms of what I deem to be reasonable behaviour and the concern I have in terms of how my club is looked upon.

You actually believe that ?

Celtc say one thing and do the other.

They also said there was no place for politics at the club.

Yet you can take a guess what songs were sung last week.

[Bakbear 3,586]

Ah the "B" word

Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

How do Rangers fans always manage to get labelled Bigots, usually by our opposition, often by the media and occasionally by politicians.... and here we are being called bigots by our own fans.

Celtic Fan "We want to blow your country up and we want our country to be free of Imperial yoke"

Rangers Fan "why don't you go home then"

Celtic fan "Bigot"

The Celtic support are packed with bigots. Nobody here is saying that they are not. They sing about h***, the IRA, Orange b*stards.........

Their club have come out with statements to try and tell their fans to behave. They have stated that they can get thrown out of Parkhead for using the word h** and the word has been banned from their official messageboard.

This is not the issue here though. I don't see why such a debate has to always descend into the playground mentality of............but sir, he done it too !!

What they do has no bearing whatsoever in terms of what I deem to be reasonable behaviour and the concern I have in terms of how my club is looked upon.

I am sorry but what they do is vital in the context of this discussion and perhaps thats why we are not on the same page. Viewed independently of the source of this chant "why don't you go home" can be deemed derogatory... as i said earlier if you randomly walked up to a racial or cultural minority and said this then it would be discriminatory. That it is done in context of the "plastic paddies" denouncing their adopted country, is entirely the point. Its not playground mentality it is tribal football mentality, admittedly not much different but also just as harmless

[minstral 5,375]

a club that let their ground be used to make a republican video just scum.

[ScotBear 144]

You actually believe that ?

Celtc say one thing and do the other.

They also said there was no place for politics at the club.

Yet you can take a guess what songs were sung last week.

You must have replied just before I added my edit of ' Yet the desired impact has still not been made'.

I was just trying to illustrate the fact that they are trying to sort out their problems, but are failing. Whereas our progress has been commendable. I believe that we have a set of supporters that are more open to positive change and more reasonable in their behaviour. It doesn't mean that we don't have more work to do though with a small minority.

And to be honest, along with the BJK stuff, I do believe the famine song is only sung by a minority. It's just that there's unfortunately enough to make it audible once it starts up.

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

If we isolate the songs everyone is talking about here and take them out of the football grounds then im sure many will realise the outcome of such songs.

If i didnt like my neighbour who happened to be a Tim and i sang to him "Why dont you go home" you can bet your bottom dollar if done in the company of the police, i would be lifted.

If my neighbour decided to sing "Ooh Ah........." back at me then he would be lifted as well.

One song is Xenophobic and the other is illegal under the Terrorism Act. Both would result in a charge though.

So whilst i think the whole world has gone way too PC and that a lot of people misinterpret why people sing songs at the match, you cant get away from what the song actually is. Of course i go off my nut when they start all their RA business and of course it angers me that the police dont do anything. I also go off my nut when neds out in the street get away with all sorts of vandalism and abuse but it doesnt make me want to go out and do the same then point to them in mock indignation when i get pulled up for it.

Bottom line is, nothing anyone says or does on the internet will change what we do or what happens at football. I would simply prefer the bigger person tactic. Remove all the shite then really start turning the screw on them. I think this is the reason our Club Officials are frightened/scared to come out and publicly criticise, because deep down they know, they are only one song away from having the same muck chucked back at them.

For the benefit of any doubt and to make my self clear.

I aint sticking up for no Tims.

Their terrorism chants are of the lowest sort of songs i have heard.

I wish for once, we could see that the excuses we use to support the singing of our songs are the same ones the Timmy uses back the way.

:unionflag:

[Jelle1880 300]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word Xenophobic

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word Xenophobic

Why dont you enlighten me ?

[papaguy51 912]

I can't believe this has spanned 8 pages of argument.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

you cant get away from what the song actually is.

Feel free to tell us what what the song 'actually' is.....

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word Xenophobic

Why dont you enlighten me ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/

[Bakbear 3,586]

I can't believe this has spanned 8 pages of argument.

I Can't believe that there is talk of people being arrested for singing a wind up song at the football

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

you cant get away from what the song actually is.

Feel free to tell us what what the song 'actually' is.....

The song 'actually' is a Politically Incorrect song which if sung in the street to a Tim, in the company of a policeman, would result in your arrest due the Politically Correct World we now live in.

[Youllneverwinaway 0]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word Xenophobic

Why dont you enlighten me ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/

xenophobia [(zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh-foh-bee-uh)]

An unreasonable fear, distrust, or hatred of strangers, foreigners, or anything perceived as foreign or different.

again.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

you cant get away from what the song actually is.

Feel free to tell us what what the song 'actually' is.....

The song 'actually' is a Politically Incorrect song which if sung in the street to a Tim, in the company of a policeman, would result in your arrest due the Politically Correct World we now live in.

Time was if you saw a tim in the company of a policeman he would be wearing handcuffs

Anyway there are lots of things you would not do in the street that you would not do in other circumstances, that's not really relevant.

Political Incorrectness is not a criminal offence (*thinks* is there time to get that on a banner before Sunday?)

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of the word Xenophobic

Why dont you enlighten me ?

http://dictionary.reference.com/

xenophobia [(zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh-foh-bee-uh)]

An unreasonable fear, distrust, or hatred of strangers, foreigners, or anything perceived as foreign or different.

again.

Clearly by that definition the song is not xenophobic.