TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Is it possible to merge the old and new holding companies given the result of the FTTT? The Oldco is in £20m-£25m worth of debt is that correct? If the money could be raised to buy the Oldco from the share issue or other 3rd party (King, Park, etc) could it in theory be done?If both companies are brought together and all debts are paid off then it's another thing we can be proud of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky_ 893 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 no thanks, i dont care about the oldco. its just an empty shell of a company. History belongs to a badge, not a company number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdHodge89 1 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Problem is would need to be done quickly. Is the old company not in liquidation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It doesn't matter. It would be sentimental. Do you think we are in a position to spend £20+ million on sentimentality? I'd prefer resources were used to go after those that presided over this fucking joke of an investigation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonb23 99 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I thought that was the American's plan(forgot his name) to start a newco as an incubator 'til the oldco's debt was settled and merge the two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil 1,150 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Could the oldco not go back to trying to offer a CVA now HRMC are not biggest.creditor?Or is it past that stage?On second thoughts... Better waiting till we see if HRMC appeal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 no thanks, i dont care about the oldco. its just an empty shell of a company. History belongs to a badge, not a company number.It's got nothing to do with history. I know we still have our history. It's about paying off all our debts and moving forward with our heads held high. We tried to pay off the debt using a CVA before and HMRC crushed it. We should look to pay off our debts and if they don't let us then fine, we can always say we tried. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghead 24 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 How can BDO be in position now as HMRC put them in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It's got nothing to do with history. I know we still have our history. It's about paying off all our debts and moving forward with our heads held high. We tried to pay off the debt using a CVA before and HMRC crushed it. We should look to pay off our debts and if they don't let us then fine, we can always say we tried.Do you know what a CVA is? You don't pay ALL your debts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie0202 12,393 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 This should be merged with the can Green buy the Oldco thread.In both threads people are citing reasons like "sentiment" and "to shut up the tims".How about Europe? The Newco can't provide 3 years of financial history but if we could merge the two companies it could be a fast-track route to Europe. Green and co could make their cash quicker if we were eligible for Europe and paying off the debts could pay for itself. Rangers with Europe is worth alot more than Rangers without and could also attract more investment. I'm sure a run in the Champion's League would just about pay for the entire Oldco debt and that's if it is paid 100%, not a £0.07 in the pound CVA (Dundee I'm looking in your direction) which could also be acheivable.Thoughts anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Do you know what a CVA is? You don't pay ALL your debts.Yeah I know what a CVA is. I would rather we paid back the entire debt. However, if we can't afford that, if all we can offer is a pence in the pound CVA, then it's still something.Our name has been dragged threw the mud in recent years. Now that we have won our Tax case, we push to keep our titles, pay back our debts and begin the fight back. Clear our good name in the public eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Yeah I know what a CVA is. I would rather we paid back the entire debt. However, if we can't afford that, if all we can offer is a pence in the pound CVA, then it's still something.Our name has been dragged threw the mud in recent years. Now that we have won our Tax case, we push to keep our titles, pay back our debts and begin the fight back. Clear our good name in the public eye.You're missing the point. We were managing our debts without the BTC we could have paid them in full but they forced us to liquidate the old company. Our name has been dragged through the mud, for no reason. We did nothing wrong! This has cleared our name, vindicated our resolve. So why should we feel obliged to pay debts, that are no longer our responsibility, after how we were treated? We deserve to be renumerated for everything they took from us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al 55 9,281 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 This should be merged with the can Green buy the Oldco thread.In both threads people are citing reasons like "sentiment" and "to shut up the tims".How about Europe? The Newco can't provide 3 years of financial history but if we could merge the two companies it could be a fast-track route to Europe. Green and co could make their cash quicker if we were eligible for Europe and paying off the debts could pay for itself. Rangers with Europe is worth alot more than Rangers without and could also attract more investment. I'm sure a run in the Champion's League would just about pay for the entire Oldco debt and that's if it is paid 100%, not a £0.07 in the pound CVA (Dundee I'm looking in your direction) which could also be acheivable.Thoughts anyone?CW didn't submit books in his last year so old I don't have 3 successive years of accounts either. Worth looking into though. I wouldn't be against merging the two if possible and the cost is reasonable, any more than a couple of million and its a no goer IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 We deserve to be renumerated for everything they took from us.Do we even stand a chance of renumeration without possession of the Oldco? If we bought the Oldco we could chase Craig Whyte and HMRC for damages. HMRC effected our ability to trade for years because we had a massive tax case hanging over us. Craig Whyte was a criminal who mismanaged and sabotaged us and must be brought to justice. We might even be due prize money from the SPL.I just think we would be better served if we have the Oldco and the Newco merged. Pay off the debts, chase down those who put us in this position, and keep moving forward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachothelegend 1,932 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We Rangers fans should sue the spl for denying our european spot, and then sue them for putting us down to the 3rd Div. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 It's also worth noting that the Oldco has not been liquidated yet. It's not even in the process of liquidation. BDO has yet to begin the process and there's plenty of paperwork holding that process up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor3los_1 3,672 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 HMRC are still going to be owed £10 million in unpaid NI etc surelu along with the others debtsHMRC are going to appealHMRC are going be owed money potentially from the Big Tax Case but not anywhere near the £40 million reportedSo no, i don't want a merge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 We Rangers fans should sue the spl for denying our european spot, and then sue them for putting us down to the 3rd Div.Charles Green said that we've never played in the SPL. So what's to stop the SPL from saying the same thing in their defense. They might also claim that any claim against them can only be made by the Oldco. You see, buying the Oldco means we can take people to task. HMRC, Whyte, SPL, Tax Bloggers, etc. I'd like to see us incorporate the two companies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 HMRC are still going to be owed £10 million in unpaid NI etc surely along with the others debtsI now hear figures of £9m-£10m in debt which is a lot less than I first thought.HMRC are going to appealWill we appeal that appeal. Is this fucking Ping Pong we're playing? Do you need to win two appeals in a row before you win?HMRC are going be owed money potentially from the Big Tax CaseThey're going after former players for that money, not the club Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor3los_1 3,672 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I now hear figures of £9m-£10m in debt which is a lot less than I first thought.Will we appeal that appeal. Is this fucking Ping Pong we're playing? Do you need to win two appeals in a row before you win?They're going after former players for that money, not the club Thats why we shouldn't merge, the uncertainty is not something we need, your plan is a non-starter sunshine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMB 14,167 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 your plan is a non-starter sunshine.We'll see what the coming days bring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlBear. 8,499 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 We'll see what the coming days bring.Been hearing that for years now. When will this fucking soap opera end? And I was really enjoying being focused on the football again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy 1,200 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 There's no reason to merge. We are where we are as they always keep saying and there is no point in hooking up again with the oldco as HMRC will appeal and it will just go on and on and on and on. No thanks!!!Any remaining debts form the oldco should be paid by Whyte and Lloyds bank who were the initiators of this whole mess, IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docopops 13 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If we were to merge, then where would club registration lie? Would we have to re-apply? Fuck that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZZed 4,510 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Wait till it is all resolved and if it not to bad get the oldco merged and then all the loose ends are tied up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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