Revenues and Costs

[trublusince1982 768]

This thread is not for anyone who wants to debate board members or prospective members. It is only for those who want to pass a couple of hours on a Sunday to talk and debate how the club will financially move forward. It is not meant as a comment on the job done so far by the current board, i will leave that to the many other threads.

Below are my estimates on this seasons revenues and costs. They are all made up, none are definite, i used only things the club has told us in the accounts just published or from interviews given by club members or staff. Please add any you know for sure or i have forgotten.

I was looking for areas we the fans could do more in or could pinpoint to give a boost to help the club maximize its cash flow. Was doing this just to pass a boring Sunday at work, but when i noticed the amount we were paying in other costs which is made up of match day costs, such as policing,stewarding and pitch costs. It got me thinking how much is policing costing us a year? Do we need a helicopter! The club has made moves to reduce the stewarding costs and along this line i would like to find out how much policing actually costs us?(is it less than when we were in the spfl?) Are we seen as just a cash cow for Strathclyde police to help finance the policing of the new bigotry laws, or are we paying out a necessary amount to keep the games family friendly? This then lead to me asking what other costs are we incurring that we the fans could try and do something about.

this is how i see this season going with the information at hand

revenues

gate receipts and hospitality- £13,108,400

sponsorship and advertising- £1,519,000

retail- £3,000,000

broadcasting rights- £778,000

Commercial- £974,000

other revenue- £1,705,000

Puma- £1,000,000

total £22,084,000

not taking into account any players sold or one off incomes.

Costs

Staff- £16,620,617

other operating costs- £11,317,000

hire of plant- £193,000

depreciation of property,plant and equipment- £382,000

auditor- £52,500

total £28,565,117

not taking into account one off costs of refurbishment of edmiston house , carpark or any player purchases.

difference -£6,481,117

reasons

gate receipts i lowered by 3000 season tickets @ £212 ea (BS average price of ST) Sold 38000 last season so far 35000 this season, sales have almost stopped at 6 a day so not going to add if's or but amounts. Hopefully sales will pick up after agm.

hospitality i increased by 10% because of the 5% increase in price the club added this season and the 2% uptake recorded so far this season.

sponsorship and advertising i increased from £819,000 to £1,519,000 by adding £700,000 for blackthorn which is in line with the clubs expected increase of more than 70%(roughly 85%)

retail i have put at £3m this is high. Taking we received at our best £3m from jjb ,and on our own best year brought around £7m in for 100%. This is an increase from £1.6m last season to represent the 51% we own in rangers retail i think sports direct get the other 49% but that is just my guess.

Broadcasting i have left the same as i see no real change from last year although we have sold less games online this year within the UK

Commercial i have left the same as this represents things like programmes

other revenue i have left alone as i don't know what it is!

Puma i have given £1m a season, personally i think a little hopeful probably nearer the £700k range but hey aim high. With a ten year deal hopefully we got at least £10m all in.

Staff costs as follows -taking away the wages of board members CG, MM, WS, IH also taking away the reduction in wage by AMcC and his coaches adding an extra £241,443 for CM who's wage wasn't included last year in full. As for the playing squad goes i have taken the players who left salaries and used them to cancel out the new player salaries, as CM has told us the first team wage bill is down should leave some wiggle room. This does not include player wage rises for promotion bonuses.

Other operating costs i have reduced by £2m (this constitutes the £2m saving the board announced) as the board have brought in house stewarding , hopefully in future we will make revenue from this venture as well.

Depreciation of property and plant i have reduced by 50% as i believe we will have more purchases in the first year. Admittedly a stab in the dark(i need boss).

Auditor as is.

Have not included the £800k owed on the screen wifi finance as under one off costs.

At this point looks to me we need to make somewhere in the region of £5-£8m more. Where do you think we can help the club achieve this this year and shut everyone up. a pipe dream maybe but so what!

WATP

P.s boss don't take me apart i know i am not an accountant!

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Think we only pay for the police inside the stadium

[thehost 11,061]

stadia naming rights

refusal to allow the manager to purchase any more players until back in top league

remove one of his assistants and redirect the money to youth scouting and coaching

alas the biggest issue is lack of media revenue and in order to fix that you would need to remove the SFA SPFL and take stop pooling our rights

[trublusince1982 768]

Think we only pay for the police inside the stadium

Wasn't aware of that i knew in England that is the case but i thought up here we get an invoice for part of the cost. Do we really need as many of them in the stadium, what is the ratio they use to work out the amount of police against fans?

[trublusince1982 768]

stadia naming rights

refusal to allow the manager to purchase any more players until back in top league

remove one of his assistants and redirect the money to youth scouting and coaching

alas the biggest issue is lack of media revenue and in order to fix that you would need to remove the SFA SPFL and take stop pooling our rights

Definitely don't see room for signing players, think that will need to go on the back burner for a while. What is the rule regarding radio coverage? can we buy that from the spfl?

as for stadium rights the figure of around £350k a year puts me off although it maybe necessary.

[allgers 735]

I don't have any problem with Ally moving some players on and signing a few others, what I do not want to see is cash expenditure.

[iang2911 423]

This thread is not for anyone who wants to debate board members or prospective members. It is only for those who want to pass a couple of hours on a Sunday to talk and debate how the club will financially move forward. It is not meant as a comment on the job done so far by the current board, i will leave that to the many other threads.

Below are my estimates on this seasons revenues and costs. They are all made up, none are definite, i used only things the club has told us in the accounts just published or from interviews given by club members or staff. Please add any you know for sure or i have forgotten.

I was looking for areas we the fans could do more in or could pinpoint to give a boost to help the club maximize its cash flow. Was doing this just to pass a boring Sunday at work, but when i noticed the amount we were paying in other costs which is made up of match day costs, such as policing,stewarding and pitch costs. It got me thinking how much is policing costing us a year? Do we need a helicopter! The club has made moves to reduce the stewarding costs and along this line i would like to find out how much policing actually costs us?(is it less than when we were in the spfl?) Are we seen as just a cash cow for Strathclyde police to help finance the policing of the new bigotry laws, or are we paying out a necessary amount to keep the games family friendly? This then lead to me asking what other costs are we incurring that we the fans could try and do something about.

this is how i see this season going with the information at hand

revenues

gate receipts and hospitality- £13,108,400

sponsorship and advertising- £1,519,000

retail- £3,000,000

broadcasting rights- £778,000

Commercial- £974,000

other revenue- £1,705,000

Puma- £1,000,000

total £22,084,000

not taking into account any players sold or one off incomes.

Costs

Staff- £16,620,617

other operating costs- £11,317,000

hire of plant- £193,000

depreciation of property,plant and equipment- £382,000

auditor- £105,000

total £28,617,617

not taking into account one off costs of refurbishment of edmiston house , carpark or any player purchases.

difference -£6,533,617

reasons

gate receipts i lowered by 3000 season tickets @ £212 ea (BS average price of ST) Sold 38000 last season so far 35000 this season, sales have almost stopped at 6 a day so not going to add if's or but amounts. Hopefully sales will pick up after agm.

hospitality i increased by 10% because of the 5% increase in price the club added this season and the 2% uptake recorded so far this season.

sponsorship and advertising i increased from £819,000 to £1,519,000 by adding £700,000 for blackthorn which is in line with the clubs expected increase of more than 70%(roughly 85%)

retail i have put at £3m this is high. Taking we received at our best £3m from jjb ,and on our own best year brought around £7m in for 100%. This is an increase from £1.6m last season to represent the 51% we own in rangers retail i think sports direct get the other 49% but that is just my guess.

Broadcasting i have left the same as i see no real change from last year although we have sold less games online this year within the UK

Commercial i have left the same as this represents things like programmes

other revenue i have left alone as i don't know what it is!

Puma i have given £1m a season, personally i think a little hopeful probably nearer the £700k range but hey aim high. With a ten year deal hopefully we got at least £10m all in.

Staff costs as follows -taking away the wages of board members CG, MM, WS, IH also taking away the reduction in wage by AMcC and his coaches adding an extra £241,443 for CM who's wage wasn't included last year in full. As for the playing squad goes i have taken the players who left salaries and used them to cancel out the new player salaries, as CM has told us the first team wage bill is down should leave some wiggle room. This does not include player wage rises for promotion bonuses.

Other operating costs i have reduced by £2m (this constitutes the £2m saving the board announced) as the board have brought in house stewarding , hopefully in future we will make revenue from this venture as well.

Depreciation of property and plant i have reduced by 50% as i believe we will have more purchases in the first year. Admittedly a stab in the dark(i need boss).

Auditor as is.

Have not included the £800k owed on the screen wifi finance as under one off costs.

At this point looks to me we need to make somewhere in the region of £5-£8m more. Where do you think we can help the club achieve this this year and shut everyone up. a pipe dream maybe but so what!

WATP

P.s boss don't take me apart i know i am not an accountant!

Your probably pretty close on that although I would have put the Other Costs a little lower by about £2.5M, revenue increase is about what I can predict at between £3-£5M although i would hope that it may be a little more.

Then again I am an uber optimist!!

[trublusince1982 768]

Your probably pretty close on that although I would have put the Other Costs a little lower by about £2.5M, revenue increase is about what I can predict at between £3-£5M although i would hope that it may be a little more.

Then again I am an uber optimist!!

if things like the membership scheme can be up and running within the season it should also make a huge difference. Still plenty of scope for improvement in the hospitality it dropped by 50% and also price fell by 33% not really sure why such a big drop? surely the customers companies where taking still want to see rangers? Wouldn't have thought the opposition where much of a pull except the obvious old firm games.

[trublusince1982 768]

I don't have any problem with Ally moving some players on and signing a few others, what I do not want to see is cash expenditure.

agree can't see any justification for transfer fees at this stage, although must admit was looking forward to being involved in the transfer market again.

What if we found a young player who we were as sure as possible would give us a return down the line, do you think the club will have a budget for such a thing? Especially since we have no scouts hoping we will not just revert to buying in talent without thought of return.

[five stars 1,634]

It hard to see where we can raise our income significantly while we are in the lower leagues. Obviously we could sell our best players but we are trying to built a team not dismantle one.

If we presume we have enough cash to last till the end of the season, we need to work out how much capital we need to raise to get us though the Championship and back into the top league.

Once we are back at the top and have a greater income through increases in ticket prices, greater sponsorship, TV cash etc. hopefully we will then be able to balance the books and be able to run the club without accumulating debt or having the need to raise more capital.

[allgers 735]

agree can't see any justification for transfer fees at this stage, although must admit was looking forward to being involved in the transfer market again.

What if we found a young player who we were as sure as possible would give us a return down the line, do you think the club will have a budget for such a thing? Especially since we have no scouts hoping we will not just revert to buying in talent without thought of return.

Sure in the summer we moved on a young guy we paid a development fee for, there are no guarantees. Look at your accounts is there a budget at the moment.

[bigblueyonder 11,156]

I reckon a £6m loss would be about right, we'll need further investment next season unless we can cut £2-4m out of the wages in my opinion or find more revenue streams sponsorship naming rights player sales etc

[trublusince1982 768]

Sure in the summer we moved on a young guy we paid a development fee for, there are no guarantees. Look at your accounts is there a budget at the moment.

no. but if we use that to measure we don't have room in the budgets for the for -see- able future (before euro football), even if say king was to put up a transfer kitty it wouldn't be enough we would still need the wages covered as well ,unless we only used the transfer kitty if we moved players off the wage budget first.

The point is we will sign players over the next two seasons i think that is pretty much a given, the only questions are will we manage that in a one in one out scheme without pay offs or will these be only free transfers.

If they don't continue in the transfer market will ST stay as high? Will they use a big buy to encourage sales of merchandise and tickets?

[trublusince1982 768]

I reckon a £6m loss would be about right, we'll need further investment next season unless we can cut £2-4m out of the wages in my opinion or find more revenue streams sponsorship naming rights player sales etc

A big earner i didn't include could be the wifi linked with ladbrooks for in house betting. Not sure if this is why bet butler are now gone or if there was another issue. Imagine the amount the club could make if you could make bets sitting in your seat watching the game as play unfolds, or if they could send out adverts like "book your place now for dinner in the club restaurant for after the game 10%off limited spaces" direct to mobiles would encourage more spending. Not sure what would be an achievable amount of earnings from this would be.

[allgers 735]

no. but if we use that to measure we don't have room in the budgets for the for -see- able future (before euro football), even if say king was to put up a transfer kitty it wouldn't be enough we would still need the wages covered as well ,unless we only used the transfer kitty if we moved players off the wage budget first.

The point is we will sign players over the next two seasons i think that is pretty much a given, the only questions are will we manage that in a one in one out scheme without pay offs or will these be only free transfers.

If they don't continue in the transfer market will ST stay as high? Will they use a big buy to encourage sales of merchandise and tickets?

A lot of questions there, the answer is yes we will sign players, we have to, there has to be continous improvement in the playing staff, BIG money signings are a thing of the past, but we can't rule out some _big money signings, these help to generate income.

[trublusince1982 768]

A lot of questions there, the answer is yes we will sign players, we have to, there has to be continous improvement in the playing staff, BIG money signings are a thing of the past, but we can't rule out some _big money signings, these help to generate income.

would you agree with the idea of a benefactor buying players for us to play but with future transfer fee reverting back to the benefactor, like the tevez deal?

[cumnockbear 2,446]

Non playing staff wages need to be cut big time 10m is absolutely shocking, directors taking no bonuses for winning trophies.

[allgers 735]

would you agree with the idea of a benefactor buying players for us to play but with future transfer fee reverting back to the benefactor, like the tevez deal?

Is this legal, did Uefa not ban this practice or are in the process of.

[trublusince1982 768]

Is this legal, did Uefa not ban this practice or are in the process of.

think they tried to ban it but all they had to do was structure the deal like a loan move and there was nothing they could do. In our case the player when sold would be sold properly not like tevez who went from team to team still owned by his management.

Have heard rumours that is how them across the city do it. £20 m went into an account from their benefactor then that money was used to fund player purchases with fees received going back into that account owned under another company name, making it self sufficient , with the surplus if any over the twenty mill going to the benefactor. Could be shit but the principle could stand if you had a good scouting network. Obviously comes with pros and cons.

[boss 1,941]

P.s boss don't take me apart i know i am not an accountant!

A lot of decent work gone into that. We could all query this amount or that amount, but we'd all be guessing anyway.

In general terms, I'd be surprised if our loss isn't halved or better and overall your numbers tie in with that.

P.S. audit fees will hopefully be about half your number

[allgers 735]

think they tried to ban it but all they had to do was structure the deal like a loan move and there was nothing they could do. In our case the player when sold would be sold properly not like tevez who went from team to team still owned by his management.

Have heard rumours that is how them across the city do it. £20 m went into an account from their benefactor then that money was used to fund player purchases with fees received going back into that account owned under another company name, making it self sufficient , with the surplus if any over the twenty mill going to the benefactor. Could be shit but the principle could stand if you had a good scouting network. Obviously comes with pros and cons.

Woh cowboy,, deal like a loan move, can see that being discribed as tantamount to match fixing in ten years time. As long as we are doing the accusing I'm happy.

[trublusince1982 768]

A lot of decent work gone into that. We could all query this amount or that amount, but we'd all be guessing anyway.

In general terms, I'd be surprised if our loss isn't halved or better and overall your numbers tie in with that.

P.S. audit fees will hopefully be about half your number

thanks boss have been sh**ing it waiting on you!

will amend the numbers.

[gogzy 31,195]

At this point looks to me we need to make somewhere in the region of £5-£8m more. Where do you think we can help the club achieve this this year and shut everyone up. a pipe dream maybe but so what!

Season tickets will go up in price, as will single tickets, this will increase gate revenue and ST revenue.

A reasonable increase in ST and gate revenue will account for a decent chink of the money, I think the sponsorship deals will increase in value too.

We also have players as assets, we can once again play the transfer market, and make profit through that ( f done correctly)

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,611]

We'll be looking at a 25% increase in ST prices minimum

[Glowingmonkeyhead 62]

To me the figure look about right but I would expect other costs to drop by more than £2m as there were more one off costs in year one and this was also a 13 month accounting period.

Wages should drop down by about £4m if it is true that player wages will be about 45% of turnover (45% of £22m = £9.9m) and other staff costs are about £2m.

I would personally get rid of a few players in January as a 27 man squad is to big in this division. Perry, Cribari, Hutton & Dean Sheils should be moved on. Saving of about £0.75m there.

I would expect next season in the Championship with the likely hood we will be joined by Hearts that season tickets will go up by 20% and take up will be about the 40k mark if the board room settles. This should see about an extra £4m in revenues.

So as long as we dont spend out on new players (we have the squad to get back to the top flight now) and dont pay the execs huge bonuses we should start making some profits by year three.

Back in the top flight we will need the likes of King and others to invest in the team (about £15m would do). However with increased season tickets, TV money, Sponsorship that will be generated with our return revenues will be back up towards the £35m to £40m in year 4 so we can afford the new player wages. When we get back with no debt we will be back in a great position.

The manky mob may think they have millions being saved up to fight us on our return but ill guarantee you right now that they dont spend the Lion share of it as they are not as well off as the media would have you believe and they are also built on the biscuit tin mentality and the only charity they believe in i the charity that stays at home in Liarwells retirement package for financial performance!