De Boer a game away from sack

[Mr Soprano 13,964]

1 hour ago, Gustav said:

Courtois

Azpilicueta Luiz Cahill

Moses Kante Matic Alonso

Pedro Costa Hazard

Give or take that's the team/system that won it.

Fucking rent boys, mate.

Every single one of them.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,685]

1 minute ago, Mr Soprano said:

Fucking rent boys, mate.

Every single one of them.

Champions, mate.

Every single one of them.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,685]

Here's some proof.

[Mr Soprano 13,964]

Just now, Gustav said:

Champions, mate.

Every single one of them.

Seen that coming a mile off soon as I posted it  

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,685]

Just now, Mr Soprano said:

Seen that coming a mile off soon as I posted it  

Easiest open goal of all time  

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

15 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

I thought it would be obvious the comparison i was making, the 2 horse race thing, well in Holland it's actually more than 2 as we have already discussed.

Walter did ok for Scotland, i wouldn't say succesful unless you are basing it on the rise in the fifa rankings which are a nonsense at times.

De Boer had 5 seasons at Ajax, winning 4 titles and their equivalent of the charity shield before resigning after losing the title in his 5th season and has lasted less than 6 months in his 2 jobs since then (assuming Palace will sack him)

Walter Smith had 2 successful spells with us over a period of 20 years where he delivered 10 league titles, 5 Scottish cups, 6 league cups and a European final. He took over Scotland after Berti Vogts and took us from being a laughing stock to the brink of qualifying for the European championships.

But aye, let's compare them both because I said the Dutch league is a 2 horse race most of the time as well.

FUCK SAKE

[Turnberry18 3,204]

32 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

It's not wrong. Le Guen was a success at Lyon and a failure afterwards. De Boer was a success at Ajax and has failed since.

Seems like a fair comparison to me.

Is Walter comparable to them, and Alex McLeish, and Advocaat; did they all succeed after Rangers? The comparison of De Boer and Le Guen is very broad, and because it is so then it appears tenuous, and irrelevant. De Boer at Crystal Palace would not have the same objectives as he had at Ajax; Le Guen was never really going to have the same job anywhere that he had at Lyon; even when he took us over he was working on a relative shoestring. My point is that the role of manager is a little more ambiguous than you are giving it credit for.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

Is Walter comparable to them, and Alex McLeish, and Advocaat; did they all succeed after Rangers? The comparison if very broad, and because it is so then it appears tenuous, and irrelevant. De Boer at Crystal Palace would not have the same objectives as he had at Ajax; Le Guen was never really going to have the same job anywhere that he had at Lyon; even when he took us over he was working on a relative shoestring. My point is that the role of manager is a little more ambiguous than you are giving it credit for.

Correct, yet he's trying to play the same style of football which is why he'll fail.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Correct, yet he's trying to play the same style of football which is why he'll fail.

I was suprised that he took that job, because they clearly have the aim to stay up. It appears to have been a risk on his part.

[DrLaudrup 4,606]

It is about big clubs/small clubs, culture and the way money has ruined football. 

The way de Boer wants to play is part of the culture of Ajax. They invented that Dutch style in the 70s and have never changed since. All their youth players play that way right through to the first team. Most of their talented players go for big money. 

Palace are a small club that has got money because of the Premier League weirdness. Because of this money they are able to get someone like de Boer but although they have money they still can't really attract top players who have the technique to adapt to the style de Boer wants to play. They don't want to play for a smaller club like Palace. Unless they start playing a more traditional British style they will struggle but de Boer is the wrong manager to implement that. If they want a different style then they need patience and to back him....but money talks down there. 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

9 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

I was suprised that he took that job, because they clearly have the aim to stay up. It appears to have been a risk on his part.

It's a bit of a poisoned chalice tbh. I can only assume the wages were too much to resist.

[plumbGER 24,518]

28 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

De Boer had 5 seasons at Ajax, winning 4 titles and their equivalent of the charity shield before resigning after losing the title in his 5th season and has lasted less than 6 months in his 2 jobs since then (assuming Palace will sack him)

Walter Smith had 2 successful spells with us over a period of 20 years where he delivered 10 league titles, 5 Scottish cups, 6 league cups and a European final. He took over Scotland after Berti Vogts and took us from being a laughing stock to the brink of qualifying for the European championships.

But aye, let's compare them both because I said the Dutch league is a 2 horse race most of the time as well.

FUCK SAKE

The brink of qualifying? we got beat 1-0 at home to the mighty Belarus to finally be knocked out.

Well you started the silly comparisons by bringing Ronnie the rocket into it.

Fuck sake

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

8 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

The brink of qualifying? we got beat 1-0 at home to the mighty Belarus to finally be knocked out.

Well you started the silly comparisons by bringing Ronnie the rocket into it.

Fuck sake

Belarus weren't even in our group

It wasn't a silly comparison. Someone said winning the titles makes de Boer a good manager, I pointed out that even Deila has won a few. One of which was for an unfancied team in the Norwegian league as opposed to managing one of the favourites.

You instantly jumped to conclusions and started talking nonsense about Ross County and Inverness.

At least you've been consistent in getting things wrong today though

 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,685]

39 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

It's a bit of a poisoned chalice tbh. I can only assume the wages were too much to resist.

He did an interview when he got the job saying they were a club who liked to 'spend a lot of money'

Dunno if thy didn't trust him with a large budget or seen the way the market was going and baulked at the prices but he hardly spent a thing.

[plumbGER 24,518]

32 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Belarus weren't even in our group

It wasn't a silly comparison. Someone said winning the titles makes de Boer a good manager, I pointed out that even Deila has won a few. One of which was for an unfancied team in the Norwegian league as opposed to managing one of the favourites.

You instantly jumped to conclusions and started talking nonsense about Ross County and Inverness.

At least you've been consistent in getting things wrong today though

 

Why was it nonsense to mention 2 teams who were in the same league as the beggars? it would be nonsense if they weren't.

So what have i actually got wrong? I thought it was mostly just opinions we were giving? The facts i stated about how many times PSV/FEYENOORD won the league were correct to my knowledge.

The picture attached shows what you just got wrong though

[plumbGER 24,518]

42 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

You instantly jumped to conclusions and started talking nonsense about Ross County and Inverness.

Another wee thing, i didn't "instantly jump to conclusions" by talking about Ross County and Inverness.

My first reply was "no" to the question about that making ronnie a good manager.

At least you are consistent in getting it wrong today

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

27 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

Why was it nonsense to mention 2 teams who were in the same league as the beggars? it would be nonsense if they weren't.

So what have i actually got wrong? I thought it was mostly just opinions we were giving? The facts i stated about how many times PSV/FEYENOORD won the league were correct to my knowledge.

The picture attached shows what you just got wrong though

No, I said he took us to the brink of qualifying for a European Championships and you've said Belarus ended those hopes and then posted a screenshot of a world cup qualifying group.

 

You're having a fucking shocker here just give up

[plumbGER 24,518]

14 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

No, I said he took us to the brink of qualifying for a European Championships and you've said Belarus ended those hopes and then posted a screenshot of a world cup qualifying group.

 

You're having a fucking shocker here just give up

Aye well i fucked that up, i did mean the world cup groups because he left Scotland well before he would have the chance to have them at the brink of qualifiying, as we both know because he returned to Rangers at that point, and the fact i mentioned the limp Belarus disaster that knocked us out.

End of the day, his stint as Scotland manager still can't be described as successful, to me being a successful manager for Scotland would be qualifiying for a major tournament.

I'm having a shocker, your like a wee dug with a bone everytime The Windass is better than McKay thread was another one like this, you accepted Windass is pish yet?

 

 

 

 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

1 minute ago, plumbGER said:

Aye well i fucked that up, i did mean the world cup groups because he left Scotland well before he would have the chance to have them at the brink of qualifiying, as we both know because he returned to Rangers at that point, and the fact i mentioned the limp Belarus disaster that knocked us out.

End of the day, his stint as Scotland manager still can't be described as successful, to me being a successful manager for Scotland would be qualifiying for a major tournament.

I'm having a shocker, your like a wee dug with a bone everytime The Windass is better than McKay thread was another one like this, you accepted Windass is pish yet?

 

 

 

 

It can though. Maybe just not by you.

I've never denied Windass is pish, I've only said he's better than McKay.

The dug with a bone line is ironic. I'm not the one that keeps going and going trying to get folk to change their opinions until they agree with me

[ForeverAndEver 71,482]

Both are wrong, Smith was in charge for less than half the games.

Viva Alex Mcleish.

[stewaj3 1,446]

4 hours ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

And then he jumped ship as soon as it went tits up for him.

Strømsgodset hadn't won the title in 43 years and haven't won one since Deila left them*

 

 

*I'm not being serious, clearly, but it's easy to say things like that to make someone seem like a great manager

Your posts have been dead on. At inter and palace he hasn't looked up to it. Maybe he'll get better, who knows.

At the moment though he had 4 good years in charge of Ajax. Doesn't make him a great manager for me. A great manager has 10 plus good years in management. Either with one club or several. De Boer with Ajax was a promising manager, who the likes of inter and palace are quite right to give a chance to.

I also think both should give him more time. However that's not the way football is anymore. If you struggle at first you are immediately under pressure. (Pedro)

If you do well at one club but are sacked quickly by the next two, it definitely lowers his stock. I'd also point out that folk can criticise the club's, but de Boer chose to accept these jobs and Sam allardyces replacements mostly seem to struggle, because they try and change the style of football into a more attractive brand. Either the club has to give it time for that to happen. Or the manager needs to change it gradually. 

I think de Boer has underestimated his last 2 jobs. I also think he walked into an Ajax team who had kids on the way up and they inspired his team's to the league. It's near impossible to have Frank's impact on that.

[plumbGER 24,518]

2 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

It can though. Maybe just not by you.

I've never denied Windass is pish, I've only said he's better than McKay.

The dug with a bone line is ironic. I'm not the one that keeps going and going trying to get folk to change their opinions until they agree with me

In your opinion it can, in my opinion it hardly holds up considering he never got us to a tournament, maybe if he stayed he might have who knows?

Well at least i can admit my mistake, unlike yourself who made the claim i instantly jumped to conclusions, when in fact i didn't.

I'm not trying to change anyones opinions, i'm just giving my opinion that i think we shouldn't downplay his achievements in Holland because of his disasters at Inter and (so far) Crystal Palace.

I actually agreed with a quote you made to someone else that maybe he is just suited to that particular league/club.

Would he be a success here? Who knows? Rodgers hadn't won fuck all until he came here.

 

 

[plumbGER 24,518]

4 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Both are wrong, Smith was in charge for less than half the games.

Viva Alex Mcleish.

Yes, he took over from Vogts during world cup campaign and put a bit of pride back into the team and steadied the ship but ultimately fell short after that defeat to Belarus.

Then left during the euro campaign, was it after a 2-0 defeat away to Ukraine? Can't really remember but point is i don't think that can be classed as a succesful stint.

 

[ForeverAndEver 71,482]

5 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

Yes, he took over from Vogts during world cup campaign and put a bit of pride back into the team and steadied the ship but ultimately fell short after that defeat to Belarus.

Then left during the euro campaign, was it after a 2-0 defeat away to Ukraine? Can't really remember but point is i don't think that can be classed as a succesful stint.

 

Aye, that was his last game.

 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

6 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

In your opinion it can, in my opinion it hardly holds up considering he never got us to a tournament, maybe if he stayed he might have who knows?

Well at least i can admit my mistake, unlike yourself who made the claim i instantly jumped to conclusions, when in fact i didn't.

I'm not trying to change anyones opinions, i'm just giving my opinion that i think we shouldn't downplay his achievements in Holland because of his disasters at Inter and (so far) Crystal Palace.

I actually agreed with a quote you made to someone else that maybe he is just suited to that particular league/club.

Would he be a success here? Who knows? Rodgers hadn't won fuck all until he came here.

 

 

There you've accepted that we can both have differing opinions. Really growing as a person in this thread

I wouldn't say I was playing down his achievements, obviously winning 4 titles in a row is good going but when he's managed 3 clubs and been a disaster at 2 of those then it does kinda look like he's just not a very good manager. He could go elsewhere after this and come good but I don't see it because he seems to just want to stick to the tactics that won him titles in Holland and those aren't going to work at the likes of Crystal Palace.

Impossible to tell if he would be a success here either but if I had to guess I'd say it would probably go the same way as Warburton's time here did. Unless we handed him a ridiculous transfer budget to get the suitable players in that could play his way.