The Facts

[dummiesoot 16,006]

watching Bazza can be infuriating, we all know he can be better, but sometimes it is like watching Scotland when Gary McAllister played, he took everything, corners, freekicks, throw ins, etc. If he let other folk do their job he'd be more effective.

[gersfan 5]

Was going to start a new topic, but there are more than enough already so i'll just add to this one.

First of all, i really can't believe how many people are backing Paul le Guen in this situation. It seems like he has more fans behind him than before!

Ok, i guess i agree that Barry is at his most effective when driving forward and getting himself into attacking positions, and he could probably be doing this a little more often. The fact of the matter is, though, that the players around him are comparatively really quite poor, and he therefore has to do a lot more himself, and lead by example just as a captain should. And he does. Now do we even know for sure that le Guen has been asking Barry to play a more attacking role? Cos although it may make sense for him to do so this is the first i have heard of it to be honest. And even if so, i feel certain that the reason that he has been dropped and stripped of the captaincy has very little to do with the fact that he is not getting forward as much as le Guen is telling him to. I think it is much more likely that le Guen does't like the fact that Barry shouts at and tries vocally to motivate the rest of the team. If someone isn't playing well, or not putting in the effort, he will let them know and give them a boot up the arse (like any good captain), and le Guen sees this as being negative. It seems that is not his style, and by Barry continuing to act in this way it is like he is not respecting his style of management. And this is where le Guen feels that he is being undermined, and that Barry should set an example by being more positive. Perhaps some players can't handle getting shouted at, or being told in no uncertain terms to get their arses in gear, but if so then they are in the wrong sport. Or maybe more accurately, playing the sport in the wrong country.

Finally, i mentioned that i agree Barry could maybe be getting forward a bit more, and using his undoubted ability where he can be most effective, but to turn round after 4 months of poor results, and of us all questioning many parts of le Guens tactics/motivation/decisions/man-management skills, and to say that its suddenly all Barry Ferguson's fault is an absolute joke! I can't believe i am reading that le Guen has actually had it right this whole time, but Barry has been refusing to play in exactly the role that le Guen (supposedly) asked him to play, and so he is now responsible for us playing so badly!

And thats the way i see it anyway! <bouncy>

[Shearer 124]

We arent trying to say its all his fault, he is the leader of the team and has been asked by le guen to play a role and he isnt doing so. Barry Ferguson cant take the blame for all our bad results, the dodgey defence are a major fact in that.

However as ive pointed out in numerous threads, his lack of attacking is effectivley meaning that we are letting teams come at us or that we have to commit our side backs forward to support the wingers. This leaves gaps down the left and right of the park which teams are exploting.

Le Guen has stated that Ferguson ignored his orders during the saint mirren match, which is why i personally feel that Ferguson is in the wrong.

So yes because he has been ignoring the managers tactics he has to take a large share of the blame as Le guen is unable to do his job properly. Do you understand now?

[CanadianGer 1]

watching Bazza can be infuriating, we all know he can be better, but sometimes it is like watching Scotland when Gary McAllister played, he took everything, corners, freekicks, throw ins, etc. If he let other folk do their job he'd be more effective.

I agree with that, Dummies, it can be infuriating at times.

And I said on here before the summer that I think he often sits way to deep. Take for example the Scotland v France game. First half he sat incredibly deep, barely 30 yards from our goal and struggled to get forward. We were pinned in our half and suffered.

Second half, he was pushing forward, moving the ball quickly and letting the play move through the field and the team. We played 100 times better and looked like a different side. And WON.

Barry is a great player who can command a game. He just needs to do it in the right way. It must be so frustrating watching guys like Papac loup the ball into touch when they have time and space but it doesn't follow that he should then sit just in front and stop him touching the ball.

[gersfan 5]

Look, i see what your saying, but no matter what way i look at it i still can't see how Paul le Guen is doing the best for our club. And although he says that Ferguson ignored his orders during the St Mirren match, that can't be why he's dropped him. He said himself that he has been thinking about this for quite some time. I said in my last post the reason i think le Guen feels he can't work with Barry, and i can't help but think this is more likely than the fact that he isn't attacking as much as le Guen wants him to.

Just out of interest, it seems you think they both have to take a share of the blame - i don't agree but i see where you're coming from - is this the case or are you completely behind le Guen? And where do you hope to see this going? Barry out? le Guen out? Loan deal?

[Wreckedroy 33]

watching Bazza can be infuriating, we all know he can be better, but sometimes it is like watching Scotland when Gary McAllister played, he took everything, corners, freekicks, throw ins, etc. If he let other folk do their job he'd be more effective.

I agree with that, Dummies, it can be infuriating at times.

And I said on here before the summer that I think he often sits way to deep. Take for example the Scotland v France game. First half he sat incredibly deep, barely 30 yards from our goal and struggled to get forward. We were pinned in our half and suffered.

Second half, he was pushing forward, moving the ball quickly and letting the play move through the field and the team. We played 100 times better and looked like a different side. And WON.

Barry is a great player who can command a game. He just needs to do it in the right way. It must be so frustrating watching guys like Papac loup the ball into touch when they have time and space but it doesn't follow that he should then sit just in front and stop him touching the ball.

I agree totally. BF is the best player in Scotland when he plays as an attacking midfielder, and Rangers are the best footballing side in Scotland when he plays there. I'm sure Barrys refusal to fit into this role is at the bottom of all this, therefore PLG had no choice other than to discipline him. Of course, this is only true IF we have all the facts. Not sure we do yet though.

[ibleedblue 0]

it said on one of the bbc articles that Ferguson had organised a christmas night out for the players against the wishes or paul le guen.

that says it all for me. sack the ba humbug b*****d and reinstate bazza as captain and interim manager until we find a replacement

[Shearer 124]

it said on one of the bbc articles that Ferguson had organised a christmas night out for the players against the wishes or paul le guen.

that says it all for me. sack the ba humbug b*****d and reinstate bazza as captain and interim manager until we find a replacement

He didnt want a christmas night out due to the very large amount of important games in a short period of time. Le Guen asked him not to have it and he went ahead and organised it anyway.

[minstral 5,375]

Do the players even deserve a Christmas night out given their performances?

whats the difference the players have been pish all season.

[ricardopatrese 0]

What you all fail to realise is that what ferguson has been doing isnt good for the team. when you are at the game and see him taking the ball from the goalkeeper or off the centre backs does it not annoy you that the more attacking of the two midfielders is being so defensive. The other problem is that he simply doesnt defend well, he doesnt shut men down and doesnt tackle.

Le guen has asked him to play a role, he isnt doing so and it hurts the team. We now have to always use the wings as he doesnt push forward, this means commiting Hutton and Smith up the flanks which leaves the defense short for cover. Hemdani or Svensson then has to cover which leaves gaps in the box and teams score.

There is the other problem that because we have around 7 players in our own half, we are letting teams come at us. there is no real reason for Ferguson to play so deep, he has been asked to play a more attacking role by PLG and he isnt doing it. Surley from a tactical standpoint, you can all see that the way he plays is allowing teams to attack us.

It was the same thing that happend when Mcleish was in charge, Ferguson didnt trust the other players he played with and played too far back. He does much better in Europe when he pushes up the field but for some reason in Scotland he doesnt want to do so.

If any player plays against the managers wishes and the role he plays affects the team then the manager has every right to drop him.

now THAT is the post of the day! Well said mate.

The original post on this thread centres around one thing and one thing only - What Barry is doing and how focused everyone else is on how well Barry CAN do when he has the ball. Conveniently everyone else posting on here is forgetting that there are 10 other guys in the team who's style of play is affected (I'm sorry to say) by Barry trying to dominate play and do everything by himself.

Sorry guys, I still think he's the best player we've got and I don't blame him for playing the way he does - it's hugely admirable and I think it's great that he's so passionate.

But PLG has obviously tried to bring him into line more than once before and it's because BF is either too stubborn or just doesn't understand what is being asked of him, that PLG has had to take this drastic action.

I hope BF swallows his pride and proves himself capable of playing in PLG's side because some of the attacking play we have seen when BF has played in the last third (where PLG wants him to play) has been some o fthe best (Laudo and Gazza aside) I've seen in my 33years as a Rangers fan.

Barry has to accept that we can be poor at the back and in deep midfield when he's not there, but sometimes you have to let the other members of the team stand on their own two feet.

Lastly, don't forget PLG has been saying for some time now he knows what the problem is (and if you watch the game that he's been making those kinds of comments after, you'll see exactly what BF has been doing in them is not what PLG wants of him).

Everyone has been crying out for him to tell us what he thinks is wrong - but how could he come out and say Barry's not doing what I want of him but i'm going to keep him in the team regardless.

PLG has been giving BF weeks to sort this out - and that is why it has come to this!

[Wreckedroy 33]

What you all fail to realise is that what ferguson has been doing isnt good for the team. when you are at the game and see him taking the ball from the goalkeeper or off the centre backs does it not annoy you that the more attacking of the two midfielders is being so defensive. The other problem is that he simply doesnt defend well, he doesnt shut men down and doesnt tackle.

Le guen has asked him to play a role, he isnt doing so and it hurts the team. We now have to always use the wings as he doesnt push forward, this means commiting Hutton and Smith up the flanks which leaves the defense short for cover. Hemdani or Svensson then has to cover which leaves gaps in the box and teams score.

There is the other problem that because we have around 7 players in our own half, we are letting teams come at us. there is no real reason for Ferguson to play so deep, he has been asked to play a more attacking role by PLG and he isnt doing it. Surley from a tactical standpoint, you can all see that the way he plays is allowing teams to attack us.

It was the same thing that happend when Mcleish was in charge, Ferguson didnt trust the other players he played with and played too far back. He does much better in Europe when he pushes up the field but for some reason in Scotland he doesnt want to do so.

If any player plays against the managers wishes and the role he plays affects the team then the manager has every right to drop him.

now THAT is the post of the day! Well said mate.

The original post on this thread centres around one thing and one thing only - What Barry is doing and how focused everyone else is on how well Barry CAN do when he has the ball. Conveniently everyone else posting on here is forgetting that there are 10 other guys in the team who's style of play is affected (I'm sorry to say) by Barry trying to dominate play and do everything by himself.

Sorry guys, I still think he's the best player we've got and I don't blame him for playing the way he does - it's hugely admirable and I think it's great that he's so passionate.

But PLG has obviously tried to bring him into line more than once before and it's because BF is either too stubborn or just doesn't understand what is being asked of him, that PLG has had to take this drastic action.

I hope BF swallows his pride and proves himself capable of playing in PLG's side because some of the attacking play we have seen when BF has played in the last third (where PLG wants him to play) has been some o fthe best (Laudo and Gazza aside) I've seen in my 33years as a Rangers fan.

Barry has to accept that we can be poor at the back and in deep midfield when he's not there, but sometimes you have to let the other members of the team stand on their own two feet.

Lastly, don't forget PLG has been saying for some time now he knows what the problem is (and if you watch the game that he's been making those kinds of comments after, you'll see exactly what BF has been doing in them is not what PLG wants of him).

Everyone has been crying out for him to tell us what he thinks is wrong - but how could he come out and say Barry's not doing what I want of him but i'm going to keep him in the team regardless.

PLG has been giving BF weeks to sort this out - and that is why it has come to this!

Glad to see more people coming forward to back PLG on this. I hope there is a way that BF and PLG can both stay...........as long as PLG has his way on tactics.

[biotechnology 2]

What you all fail to realise is that what ferguson has been doing isnt good for the team. when you are at the game and see him taking the ball from the goalkeeper or off the centre backs does it not annoy you that the more attacking of the two midfielders is being so defensive. The other problem is that he simply doesnt defend well, he doesnt shut men down and doesnt tackle.

Le guen has asked him to play a role, he isnt doing so and it hurts the team. We now have to always use the wings as he doesnt push forward, this means commiting Hutton and Smith up the flanks which leaves the defense short for cover. Hemdani or Svensson then has to cover which leaves gaps in the box and teams score.

There is the other problem that because we have around 7 players in our own half, we are letting teams come at us. there is no real reason for Ferguson to play so deep, he has been asked to play a more attacking role by PLG and he isnt doing it. Surley from a tactical standpoint, you can all see that the way he plays is allowing teams to attack us.

It was the same thing that happend when Mcleish was in charge, Ferguson didnt trust the other players he played with and played too far back. He does much better in Europe when he pushes up the field but for some reason in Scotland he doesnt want to do so.

If any player plays against the managers wishes and the role he plays affects the team then the manager has every right to drop him.

now THAT is the post of the day! Well said mate.

The original post on this thread centres around one thing and one thing only - What Barry is doing and how focused everyone else is on how well Barry CAN do when he has the ball. Conveniently everyone else posting on here is forgetting that there are 10 other guys in the team who's style of play is affected (I'm sorry to say) by Barry trying to dominate play and do everything by himself.

Sorry guys, I still think he's the best player we've got and I don't blame him for playing the way he does - it's hugely admirable and I think it's great that he's so passionate.

But PLG has obviously tried to bring him into line more than once before and it's because BF is either too stubborn or just doesn't understand what is being asked of him, that PLG has had to take this drastic action.

I hope BF swallows his pride and proves himself capable of playing in PLG's side because some of the attacking play we have seen when BF has played in the last third (where PLG wants him to play) has been some o fthe best (Laudo and Gazza aside) I've seen in my 33years as a Rangers fan.

Barry has to accept that we can be poor at the back and in deep midfield when he's not there, but sometimes you have to let the other members of the team stand on their own two feet.

Lastly, don't forget PLG has been saying for some time now he knows what the problem is (and if you watch the game that he's been making those kinds of comments after, you'll see exactly what BF has been doing in them is not what PLG wants of him).

Everyone has been crying out for him to tell us what he thinks is wrong - but how could he come out and say Barry's not doing what I want of him but i'm going to keep him in the team regardless.

PLG has been giving BF weeks to sort this out - and that is why it has come to this!

I too feel that this is thePOST OF THE DAY.Prso too-and we all have felt this way about him strays too far left & with the left sided midfield player & left full back all at that side of the pitch & BF too far back we are lop sided with no organisation apparently, but if PLG wants the players to play in a certain manner & they are not doing it-It must annoy him to bits..You can see sometimes when we lose the ball well into the oppositions half the opponents just run through our midfield-All because the team arent in a rigid formation.I love BF but he is not helping the team with his behaviour, trying to do everybodys work.

Clement should be left to mop up & Hemdani can come out & cover too.Hope its resolved amicablly.If it is tho BF will not be captain & thats probably a good thing all round.

[Albahighlander 0]

Don't forget the most important FACTS of all in this incident

Ferguson leaked the story about the captain's role disagreement through his brother

Ferguson phoned rADIO cLYDE at 2.30 pm on the day PLG told him he was dropped to greet his tale

Ferguson phoned Iain King at 2.45 pm on the day PLG told him he was dropped to greet his tale

Derek Ferguson has been all over the media today pleading his case

As a captain of Rangers Ferguson makes a great media mole.

In all of the above he has disgraced the arm band

When you add to that the implication by PLG that he has deliberately disobeyed tactical instructions then Ferguson has failed in his duties.

No-one doubts he is the best player - but the best player is not always the best option.

[Shearer 124]

Some good points there guys, im glad to see that a few of you feel the same way as i do. Too often our players play out of position and it affects the others around them. Lovenkrands was guilty of not tracking back when he played on the left wing which often left the left back under pressure.

I feel that sionko has been tracking back well and that he will come onto a game, he just needs some more assistance from the middle of the park. he makes good runs and can score goals aswell as set them up.

One other player i feel could do with staying central is Sebo, he tries far too much. If he made himself available in the box he would get goals. He seems pretty lethal from around 12 yards out, id like to see him making runs in and around the box as thats where he scored his goals for previous clubs.

[Bazza 21]

This is a terrific thread and debate

I feel that we need to here the rest of the story though before deciding who is right or wrong.

PLG has put his point across but Barry has yet to speak.

A quick question though, If Baz is being punished for not doing what he is told then is being stripped of the captiancy and ommited from the squad not a bit too much?

[Albahighlander 0]

This is a terrific thread and debate

I feel that we need to here the rest of the story though before deciding who is right or wrong.

PLG has put his point across but Barry has yet to speak.

A quick question though, If Baz is being punished for not doing what he is told then is being stripped of the captiancy and ommited from the squad not a bit too much?

Barry has yet to speak ?

within an hour of a confidential meeting with PLG he is phoning Radio Clyde, The Sun and God knows who else, His father and brother are all over the media. He hasn't stopped putting his side across since that meeting.

[Bazza 21]

This is a terrific thread and debate 

I feel that we need to here the rest of the story though before deciding who is right or wrong. 

PLG has put his point across but Barry has yet to speak.

A quick question though, If Baz is being punished for not doing what he is told then is being stripped of the captiancy and ommited from the squad not a bit too much?

Barry has yet to speak ?

within an hour of a confidential meeting with PLG he is phoning Radio Clyde, The Sun and God knows who else, His father and brother are all over the media. He hasn't stopped putting his side across since that meeting.

You have a quote of anything he has said about the situation?

[Albahighlander 0]

This is a terrific thread and debate 

I feel that we need to here the rest of the story though before deciding who is right or wrong. 

PLG has put his point across but Barry has yet to speak.

A quick question though, If Baz is being punished for not doing what he is told then is being stripped of the captiancy and ommited from the squad not a bit too much?

Barry has yet to speak ?

within an hour of a confidential meeting with PLG he is phoning Radio Clyde, The Sun and God knows who else, His father and brother are all over the media. He hasn't stopped putting his side across since that meeting.

You have a quote of anything he has said about the situation?

"I wis pure distrawt an' that"

[Bazza 21]

This is a terrific thread and debate?

I feel that we need to here the rest of the story though before deciding who is right or wrong.?

PLG has put his point across but Barry has yet to speak.

A quick question though, If Baz is being punished for not doing what he is told then is being stripped of the captiancy and ommited from the squad not a bit too much?

Barry has yet to speak ?

within an hour of a confidential meeting with PLG he is phoning Radio Clyde, The Sun and God knows who else, His father and brother are all over the media. He hasn't stopped putting his side across since that meeting.

You have a quote of anything he has said about the situation?

"I wis pure distrawt an' that"

[nvager 498]

WE have not heard all, but I expect DM to back PLG. What becomes of BF is still up in the air.

WE are better with him than without - for sure.

Lets see what happens.

If BF is OUT of RFC and we lose a few games then PLG will be in a very precarious position.

I still see KB in a poor position too after his six finger gesture.

A lot is on the "bubble" yet.