longjohn

I tend to read Club histories, but some of the players biogs are good. 'Rangers the New Era', was the first Rangers book I ever picked up. A lavish publication, it is definitely one of, maybe the best book written about the Rangers. Another book I really enjoyed, was 'Glasgow's Giants', by Bill Murray, about the history of the Old Firm. As far as I can make out, it is not biased either way. It is, however, rich in interesting photographs and cartoons of the time, with a narrative to match.

Well they wont be voting S.N.P. when they get home from Southport. Its in England. What does 'its not part of everyday life' mean? If I paint the ceiling, I wont hire a band to accompany me while I wear my collarette, splashing on an undercoat. Thats a fact. It is in my heart. It is part of my identity. Who is this very large percentage of fans who do not hold these views anymore? There are 4 big Boyne celebrations held in Scotland. For every one person walking, there are at least 5 following. Amongst these paraders, and followers, there is ample evidence of Rangers affiliation. Thousands of participants, are Gers fans. Since I have never heard anyone boo the songs,(apart from Tims) or get petitions together, to stop this Protestant stuff, then I cant see what the problem is.

I think Walters record is really good. Would have been champions the season before, if they had not had to play 900 games in 3 days. I thought he did well at Everton as well, considering players were being sold under his nose, without consultation. Walter deserves credit, and another year at least. After that its Ally. The most Rangers person I have ever seen.

Genuine bloke. One of the good guys. Hope he does well.

Well said mate, that's my take on the whole situation as well. I can't see many of them being out in Southport on Saturday either. Correct. I will be there, then ferry to Belfast Sunday. Cant wait.

Ibrox may be able to help, as a lot of clubs have copies of programmes, going back to the first issues. I do not know if Rangers do, but it is worth a try. I have a few back to late 50's and 60's.

My last post was cut right down, because I typed most of it, took a customer to catch a train at Lime Street, then came back. Only the last bit showed up. I have been to Rangers Supporters do's, in Corby, Burton, Blackpool and a few other towns in England. Some of those present are Scots, most are English, I would say. All Rangers fans, all having a good time, and all enjoying the entertainment for the night, which includes 2 long sets by Orange Flute Band. I travelled with the band, and all was cool, no trouble, few people a bit one over the eight, nothing unusual. I have been up to Ibrox, again with a group of people, all Prods, most proud of that fact, and why not. I have been in social occassions, with people, many times, and have never heard it expressed, that the Rangers fans should break ties with their Protestantism. Never heard it once. It is completely new to me. It is an opinion, that goes against all the evidence I have witnessed over the years, right up to 2009. My beliefs do not threatan anyone. Two of my best mates are R.C.'s, and they are very good mates, who I have known for years. They know my views, and not once have I heard them say my views are wrong ( though I dont expect them to agree, by the way). Who is looking for a definition of a Protestant club? It is in the support, where the Protestant tradition lies, right to this day. The apoligists are a very rare breed, as far as I can make out. A breed I want nothing to do with. I identify with them, not one bit.

Blackpool fans are over the moon, according to the Vital B'pool forum.

I stated why I used Nazism as an example, if you disagree with it, I can certainly think of others. Again I will reiterate I am by no means comparing the OO to Nazism. See here is the problem for both of us. None of us actually has any hard figures to go with, you thousands, I could say tens of thousands, but nothing can back us up. Yes there were many in Manchester who sang the songs in question. The were also many who did not. And one can sing a song without embracing its meaning. Many people get caught up in the moment. What the issue is with is Rangers continuing to be a protestant club. I'm not even sure what that ACTUALLY means? Does that mean only protestants can play for and support the club? Does it mean others can support and play, but must be made to feel outsiders? Why should Rangers be anything other than a FOOTBALL club? As for religion being a stiffling concept, think of years of halting scientific progress, think of people being burnt at the stake for disagreeing with the Church's stance, think of not being able to think for oneself but being told what to believe. Think of years of hatred, which still continues, towards homosexuals. Think of the oppression of women. Think of the wars that have been and still are fought for the undying belief in some god which has NEVER been proven by any reasonable means. Think of extremists, be it Christian, Muslim or whatever. Think of Scientology. Think of Northern Ireland. Think of Israel. Faith is all well and good, but claiming you're particular faith is dogmatically right, and then excluding those who do not follow it, or whose still forcing them to convert, is ridiculous. Man is fed religion at birth. Very very few people 'find God' later in life. Most religious people were raised in that religion. Does that not suggest that when left to rationally think about things, very very few people actually choose to believe? Anyway, this is getting of track, if you wish to continue this aspect of our discussion, by all means create a thread in the Debate Chamber. When I find a comparison between Protestantism, and the club, I refer to the fans. I do not mix with those who run the club, but I mix with those who follow the club, and there is a massive undeniable Protestant tradition amongst the Rangers support. What goes on at board level, I do not know. Half of the players are RC's, so what. Most of the fans, and I only go by those I know, are Protestant. The Protestant Reformation broke down barriers as far as Science and Industry go, leading to rapid growth in technology and commerce. I can think of a thousand things wrong with the world, but this argument, that Religion causes all the problems, carries no weight with me at all. Here are some Big wars which can never be attached to religion, by sane thinking types. World War one. World War Two. Napoleonic Wars. American Civil War. Boer War. etc etc etc. Wars are caused in the main by governments. This current war in Iraq, was started on the premise that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. A blatant lie, by a government. Yet again. My religion is not perfect, but I would say it is morally above that which has 7 year olds confessing sins (what sins can anyone have at 7 years of age???), which looks more towards the Pope than Christ, which bans condoms, because condoms cause AIDS.(so the Pope reckons), which worship fictitious saints (in some cases), which traditionally has spoke of purgatory after death, and so on. Oh yes, my church is better than that. All the problems of the world cannot be blamed on Religion, no way. As far as homosexuals go, I think many would find it hard to understand what makes them tick, but I have no view either way. The loving God I believe in, loves all his flock. Including homosexuals. Most of the churches seem to have made allowances in that area. The C of E even has gay vicars. The government, again, was the ones who outlawed and jailed gays. Look for a war, an injustice, anything which is against the interests of the population, and 9 times out of 10, its the government. You know, those upstanding people who fiddle the expenses. I wont be taking this debate anywhere else. I have had enough of it.

If you dont agree with Timmy, you are Scotland's shame. That is the logic at work here. It is the bigoted garbage from one eyed Tims, who know little about anything in reality.

This is where it all gets fuzzy. Who's ashamed??? Of course we all sing DW's and the Sash and always will. But how many actually go back home and give it a second thought??? Not as many as you think. My point being its not part of the everyday life of the average bear. The SNP are the majority party now in scotland, how many bears do you think voted for them? Hardly unionist behaviour. What is fuzzy? The Rangers fans I know in England, take it a little bit more serious than singing a couple of songs. It is part of their identity. Being Protestant. It is more than a couple of songs, and i dont know anyone who would sing those songs, unless they meant more than instantly forgetting them once they leave the ground.

I wonder why thousands of Rangers fans, be it in Manchester, Barcelona, Ibrox or Dundee, sing Protestant songs, as well as Rangers songs ? Is it because they want rid of the Protestant identity of the fans? Now that would be nonsensical. Is someone forcing them to sing these songs? Again, nonsensical. Why compare a link between Germany and Nazis, with Rangers and the C.o.S. Where is the similarity between an undeniable culture amongst Rangers fans, and Nazis? Hmmm, a bad choice of analogy there methinks. Maybe all these thousands of Rangers fans who sing the Prod songs, are actually, quite comfortable with the supports Protestant links. How can Religion be a stifling concept, that holds mankind back? It is a faith. Mankind has searched for faith, for thousands of years. There is nothing wrong with faith. The main obstacle to progress, is the greed of man. Why is one part of the world, binning food, as there is too much, and in other parts, people are starving to death. Why are drug dealers becoming rich, on the back of selling drugs to kids? Just two examples of mans inhumanity to his fellow man. Two of many. If anything, the world needs more people of faith. The Protestant identity of the Rangers support, is as real now, as it has ever been. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing to be ashamed of. That is how it has evolved. There is no evidence that the majority want this changed. None I have seen anyway. Except for a few on this site, that is.

Avast

Excellent

This will make Lennon feel welcome. 'The scarf my father wore' as sung by Stockport fans.

Love that goal. The ball crosses the line, the scarves come down, its happy days.

The Club should defend the fans more. As I have written elsewhere, the Rangers support is the only one being singled out. Why is this? Fans of other clubs sing what they want, without restriction or criticism. It gets me, that the club do not stand square with the very people who keep it going.

What a terrible thing. If you can, send condolences the family, from all Brothers on the site.

Liverpool showed no interest in signing him at all. Once he went to Real Madrid, his popularity with Liverpool fans went with him. Strange signing for United, but we will see.

Liverpool, and a Scotland top once worn by St.John when he played England.

Done 50.3 Ally

This should help... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npih1EivDgA...feature=related

Yes, I go to Church as often as I can and I am the deputy master of my Orange Lodge. Of course I believe in God.

He left the bus clean and sober to watch the game, then when he returned to the bus, he was steamin and in tatters! i dont know what had happened to him! This will be the Septic club you mean: http://www.dumbartonharp.com/frameset.htm AKA, Dumbarton branch of the RSF..... look at the forum on that site. Nothing in there. Good story that about the supporters bus. The siight of people all blessing themselves, as a bus doing the bouncy goes past is classic.

When an opinion is so against the institution, it is irrelevant.