D'Artagnan

Thats very fair comment dummiesoot....each to his own regarding politics....all that is asked for is a sense of balance and fairness.

Agree And with Lemming Gravelpus Nakafishcake Baloney Aidendihno and Youmakemesick that could lead to some unhappy bench warmers

Bottom line is that Bain is responsible for the contracts... 2 players - Webster & Papac 2 fuck ups Enough said.

Great player....he would be before Thomson & Brown on my shopping list

Same old same old... Plenty of comments but unable to sustain them by way of debate...or to answers questions posed to you in respect of your comments. Guys like you are happy for a political party with its own sectarian skeletons in the cupboard...to dictate to bears how they should think and behave. There may come a day when Rangers fans bow to political pressure from hypocrites. But this will not be the day There may come a time when Rangers fans allow their beloved club to be demonised and castigated unfairly by a Rangers hating press with their own agenda. But this will not be the day. There may come a day when the drive and determination to defend our club is forced out of us. But this will not be the day.

I dont think that anyone other than a Rangers fan could harbour that anger for SDM without having a deep love of Rangers RFC. His only fault is that he doesn't share with you, why he is so anti-SDM. I think if he did....it would raise quite a few eyebrows and cause many of you to re-evaluate your opinion of our chairman.

Society ? Who is society ? Do you mean a popular representation of the masses ? What happens when that society is split over a decision...for example the Iraq War ? The vast majority of the British public are in favour of capital punishment....yet parliament refuses to sanction it. Therefore to say society decides what is acceptable/unacceptable behaviour is erroneous. Furthermore what if a particular society is ignorant or deprived of the facts when deciding what is acceptable and unacceptable ? Your answer fails to determine what exactly is "society" Its fails to account for the many variables inevitable in a human race where there exists various belief systems many of which are not complimentary to one another.

Accepted (beer1)

I entered his street and immediately I knew which house was his?without looking at the numbers. His garden was his number?his identity. Red, blue and white flowers carefully pruned, giving a show of a bygone age?perhaps gone but obviously not forgotten. The vibrant colours of blue, red and white told their own story. Carefully nurtured and carefully tended?and they told me so much about the man I had come to see. The basics had not only been done well?..they had been strictly and faithfully observed?followed to the letter?.resulting in a show of pure magnificence. Before I even chapped his door he was there inviting me in. And as we walked through his hallway I felt I was in a time warp?framed portraits dawned the wall?triggering my memory to remember players both my father and grandfather had spoken of. But furthermore there were pictures of players and managers I had never even heard of. As we entered his living room I caught a glimpse of our former monarch gazing down at me and immediately recognised it as Annigoni?s portrait from the 1950?s of Queen Elizabeth the Second. And around the room I was taken back through time?some from my early years?but some even from before even my grandfather?s time. For there above the fireplace hung a picture of William of Orange on his white horse?victoriously crossing the Boyne. At this point I knew my paper?s researchers had done their job well. This Ranger?s supporter was most certainly one who we would refer to as ?old school??and that was exactly what my remit was. To interview one of the ?forgotten ones?. As I spoke with this old gent it was hard to believe that anyone could ever have taken issue with him?.or the things he honoured and defended could ever be seen as offensive. His manner was assured?and his voice steady?.you knew the moment you spoke to him that nothing but truth emanated from his lips. ?So how did it start I asked him?what was the catalyst ?? He thought long and hard before he spoke. ?Well it wasn?t just one thing? he said. ?More a combination of factors?. I asked him to elaborate. ?At the time there was fairly vitriolic campaign against Rangers by certain sections of the media?no matter what Rangers fans did it would be reported in a negative fashion? ?Such as ?? I asked. ?Well when I was younger I attended a European match and we had a huge card display before the game?one of the biggest ever?with Saltires and Union Flags?it looked magnificent, but afterwards all the press would say was that Ibrox looked like a Nuremberg Rally? How ironic I thought. In a country where immigrants received classes in ?Being British? that home grown British citizens showing their loyalty to flag and crown could be compared to Nazis. ?And it went on? he continued?bit by bit they kept chipping away?and the more they chipped the more defiant we became. We loved our club and refused to let it be tarnished by the negative press and their lies. We were fighting for more than a football club?we were fighting for a set of beliefs?.a way of life? As I listened to the old gent speak my memory was taken back and I remembered conversations with my grandparents about ?the old Rangers?. To a time where supporting the club was not orchestrated like a directed play?tedious and predictable, lacking feeling and passion but was instead spontaneous?imaginative?colourful and not forced. To a time when banners and songs said so much about the people who sung them and what they believed in. When to be a Ranger truly reflected the person you were. ?And then of course there was the anti-sectarian initiative?. ?he continued. I listened in awe as the old gent recounted the impact of Holyrood?s legislative impact. I almost had to pinch myself to ensure I was hearing correctly. My sense of disbelief was due to the revelations years afterwards regarding the same Labour Party who had been the architects of this legislation. How could it be the same party whose ?west coast mafia? was commonly spoken of in journalistic circles?.whose own sectarian scandals exposed in places like Monklands?could have the gall to drive through such legislation. ? ?It was another time?another place? the old gent retorted. ?Spin doctors and a favourable press ensured a smooth passage? Ah ?spin doctors??.it had been years since I had heard anyone use that term?.its use nowadays in politics was political suicide?for since this old gents day the spin doctors had been exposed for what they were ?.professional liars who dressed up bad news or even worse? twisted and distorted the truth and misled the public. ?And what of those inside Ibrox?.those with the power?what did they do to defend the club ?? I enquired. He looked at me ruefully and thought long and hard before answering. ?They say time is a great healer but I find it hard to forgive them. They were warned time and time again about the consequences of their failure to respond to the lies?to the accusations against the club. But they did not listen and they did not defend the club. Instead they pursued an agenda of appeasing the press and their lies?the only time they responded was when they themselves were criticised.? ?And what affect did that have ?? I asked . For the first time during our interview I saw emotion in the old gents eyes?not just sadness but a deep sense of pain. ?In the end we came to realise that the club?the institution?the way of life we were fighting for bore no semblance to that which masqueraded as Rangers Football Club. They continued to appease the press and politicians to the point that they drove and banned their very own supporters from Ibrox itself? Had it not been for my previous research it would have been difficult to believe what the old gent was saying, but I knew it to be true. The difficult bit was trying to understand it. Hindsight only made it more difficult to understand exactly what the ?guardians? of Rangers were trying to achieve. For they had at their disposal this priceless gem?this body of people who lived for the Rangers?whose lives embodied everything which this club stood for?who were wonderful ambassadors for this once great club?and not only did the fail to hold onto this priceless gem?they actively threw it away. Unforgivable. And of course the rest as they say is history. Rangers became a club without a soul?without traditions and lacking in heritage no longer an institution or a way of life. Ibrox?when fans bothered to attend?was like a morgue?devoid of spontaneous atmosphere?and the only singing was when the ?customers? bothered to respond to the screen prompts pleading with them to sing. It?s a true saying?. sometimes you only truly appreciate something when it is gone.

Dado, Were you aware PLG had not targetted any players for the January window....and according to an interview with SDM he did not intend to buy anyone ?

I think the problem was Dado that at the time he was available PLG was in charge..had Wattie been at the helm then who knows.

Harry Redknapp refers to him as "a right hard bastard" Perhaps just what we need.

Thats fair comment dek...but is not a great part of your own statement a case of exercising self control ? I appreciate that there are a no. amongst our support who find that particularly difficult as evidenced by the ftp brigade and those who persist in trying to sing TBB...despite the damage it coud bring to our club. However I think that banning all our traditional songs...which have been proven via the legal system to be non-sectarian in nature....would equally have a negative backlash. A bit of a case of damned if I do damned if I dont. However I loved the mad professor and lab assistant analogy.

Amazing that a club the size of Chelsea with their depth of squad....can suffer so much from the loss of one player. Perhaps thats an indictement itself of Jose's managerial capability.

What about dek when what the media and press are saying has an impact on our club ? Or are you of the opinion that it has no effect at all ?

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale. However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ? I seriously doubt if Nil By Mouth do that. You doubt....so you dont know ? Did you read the comments by other contributors to this thread ?

Ok I will re-phrase it for you ...Some of our founders came from Ulster-Scots descent. That better ?

PISS OFF

I never said there was a genocide in respect of Rangers supporters...I was merely asking where we all thought we were on the scale. Genocide is the one end of the scale. However...as other supporters have testified.....it would appear that the sectarian murder of Rangers supporters is treated differently by Nil By Mouth...so you tell me Ibroxblue...where does that leave us ?

I think they were perfectly entitled to regard themselves as Ulster Scots, not that I know if they did. But we're losing the point here. Undoubtedly Rangers have a large support in Ulster. Undoubtedly Rangers are a Protestant Club to many people. I'm not really bothered whether you think these should be celebrated. The point is (correct me if I'm wrong D'Artagnan) that it is not bigotted or sectarian to celebrate these things. If you disagree, tell me why, please. EDIT For the record I am neither a Protestant nor from Ulster. I agree Manticore...wholeheartedly There is a world of difference in celebrating your identity..your faith your culture....and being bigotted. That is something Justiston just does not seem to accept....In all my 40 years of supporting Rangers I can honestly say I have never heard a bear speak with such venom against our club or its supporters. Ibroxblue...well if you dont want to call it splitting hairs..fair enough...however I would rather deal with some of the other accusations made by Justiston than this one....but if you dont want to let this go.. fair enough. So I will ask you....Moses and Peter's mother was an Ulster Scot....so how can you be so assertive that they were solely Scottish...that they abandoned their Ulster Scot connections ?

Well Ibroxblue to be honest....irespective of who is right or wrong on the Ulster Scots question....I think some of the allegations made against our club and its supporters last night on this thread are far more important than splitting hairs over whether Moses McNeil was an Ulster Scot or just a Scot.

Manticore I stand corrected ...I should have said Ulster is part of the United Kingdom...It was early morning...and I couldnt believe some of the thing I was reading.

Frankie absolutely 150% agree...!!

Well Ibroxblue...I think if my mother was German/Austrian/American I would look upon myself as German Scottish or whatever.

"None of our founders were Ulster Scots as far as I know." Moses McNeil's mother was an Ulster Scot.