D'Artagnan

Official - on SSN

Fish I noticed you touched on some of the issues briefly which has caused you to reach your opinions regarding SDM. Can I respectfully suggest you enlighten some of those on here....things such as the ticket office...Albion...etc.

Yes, you've not even vaguely backed it up. I don't work with speculation or claims. Only fact. No disrespect intended. Prove your point Well I cant prove anything to you on here.....what I can tell you is that the bear who unearthed this article and posted it on the net...and was referred to by Hartley's agent as a "dubious source"...has heard nothing whatsoever from Hartley's legal representatives. If you chose not to accept this fair enough.

Who is asking anyone to tolerate bigotry California ? The problem is that whatever Rangers supporters do they are castigated for it. Now I dont know if you live in the states....but tell me this...would Americans accept the stars and stripes being banned at their sporting venues ?

An Irish war ? Please Justiston...before you engage your mouth like that plaease at least do yourself the honour of a little research....that way you may it least spare yourself from looking so ignorant... Battle of the Boyne

Do you really think Wattie would pursue O'Connor after he went AWOL for Scotland ?

Yes Danny...the papers reported that he was taking it up with his lawyer... But if he did...that lawyer never made any representation to the individual who unearthed the original article...and that is fact. Fact? By fact, that forces the conclusion you can back this up. Feel free Happy to.... The Bear who unearthed it is a personal friend of mine....if you still wish to doubt..perhaps Alba will verify.

Debating...Manticore....debating... But worry not....theres plenty more where that came from...

Yes Danny...the papers reported that he was taking it up with his lawyer... But if he did...that lawyer never made any representation to the individual who unearthed the original article...and that is fact.

I was dreaming...

"How come I agree wholeheartedly with you on this post?" Call me...persuasive (beer1) Your round !

Im not asking you to like it Wrecked....perhaps a brief explanation behind the motivation to it may help. We are regularly demonised as a support....but lets look actually what for. Those who want to sing about having sex with the RC pontiff....would get short shrift from this bear. Unacceptable....and damaging to our club. However we call ourselves a Rangers family. Considering that the second biggest Rangers supporting city in the UK is Belfast...then why should it be of any surprise that Red Hands Flags are on display at Ibrox ? If we are a family should we not care what is happening to our brother supporters ? Or are we so shallow that our concern only lasts for 90 minutes of a football match. ? We are slated for singing about the Boyne/The seige of Londonderry.....but these are definging moments in British history. And heres the surprise for you...I am well aware that the Boyne etc was not a religious war...it was a battle to stop the spread of French colonialism...and that the Pope was an ally of sorts with Prince William of Orange in the League of Ausburg. So...if its not a religious war...why are we letting people condemn us for it ? Before the Milan game we held one of the biggest card displays ever....Saltires and Union flags...it was magnificent....how was it perceived..? Spiers and McNee likened Ibrox to a Nuremberg Rally. In a country where our govt. are trying to introduce classes for incomers to acquaint them with British culture and traditions....Rangers supporters are slated for flying the flag of their country and celebrating their Britishness. We sing GSTQ and we are mocked or booed...it seems whatever we do...it is never right. As for the Billy Boys.....not a song I lose a great deal of sleep over...as glorifying a Glasgow gang from the 1920's is not my cup of tea. But I think it demonstrates the imbalance when Rangers fans can be arrested for it while Celtic supporters singing about the IRA will not be as that is now deemed "political" Thats the "political" organisation who murdered people by reason of their religion....to me that is the epitome of sectarian haterd..yet that appears to go unpunished. So my whole article was a pop at those who wish to demonise us whatever we do...and to remind us all there are traditons at our club which we should be rightly proud of...and no matter what current knee jerk politics are in fashion we should be forever proud that we remain true to that which is important and which defines us as more than just a football club.

But many fans dislike for him have nothing to do with bigotry or his background....its the fact that he formerly stated in a fanzine that he would like to shit on us and that we were in his words..."orange bastards".

Did I say you had mentioned them? Don't think so mate! "History as seen through Orange-tinted glasses. Check the REAL history books before you spout this romantic and misguided trash."

Okay Wrecked... My first question to you.....where in my article is there any mention of the OO ?

Go on Wreckedroy....the floor is yours. If you are going to criticise at least have the balls to justify your comments.....not the slate and run away routine.

I think it he might be the author. Not sure, but I'm pretty sure I credited him with it at the time. I think it's brilliant. If you don't agree with it say why, this is the 'Rangers FC Discussion Area' after all. I am the author Manticore....but I will forgive you your apparent breach of copyright Like you I would be keen to hear the disagreements.

I watched them at a distance?.filing into their theatre?those commonly referred to as ?bigots? My first impression was one of surprise?. because the ?bigots? donned themselves in colours and flags I was eminently familiar with?Saltires?.Union Flags?Red Hand Flags?the flags of my nation. Their procession into their theatre was only interrupted as they stood?.respectfully?in front of a statue commerating their fallen brethren?heads bowed they paid silent homage to the fateful 66. The respect they showed was far more appropriate than that of one of their accusers who years ago had sought to seek humour at the statue commemorating their fallen. And as I entered their theatre I was I was treated to their choruses. As they glorified their country, their sovereign, their history and the battles which forged and shaped all of the former? I confess I searched hard to find out just what the problem was. Perhaps it was the tingle at the back of neck which caused a wave of patriotism to wash over me,,,,which momentarily reminded who I was?..where I had come from?for a brief moment I was reminded of all I was meant, and had once aspired, to be?.yes that was it?that?s what clouded my judgment of the ?Bigots? For one thing I would say about the ?bigots? they are without compromise, they are not swayed by fashionable or knee jerk politics?.in fact you could say the things they value are those timeless principles?.faith?honour?loyalty?steadfastness. Some commentators have referred to them as stubborn?.my impression was that they were resolute?unflinching. And another chorus started?..this one praising the people of the Northern territories across the water?.saluting their steadfastness and refusal to submit to the terrorist bomb and bullet. These were the type of choruses their accusers had found ?distasteful?. Apparently it is ?distasteful? to sing songs about a war which shaped our country nearly 300 hundred years ago. The strange thing is?.its apparently okay to sing about a battle 700 years ago?..and even replace our country?s national anthem with it. And amidst all these ?distasteful? songs about Ulster?.I have to admit to casting my eye beyond the ?Bigots? theatre?.across the shores of our country and across the sea?to the northlands of Ireland. And there a saw a people?.a people feeling isolated?abandoned and confused. A people vilified by those who are ignorant?.and yet a people triumphed as a ?Faithful Tribe? by those who have taken the time to investigate, explore and seek out the truth. For the like the ?bigots? they are without compromise?.their crimes appear to be faith?loyalty and steadfastness before their God?their Sovereign and their country. Their accusers are those who sought to rule them by the bomb and the bullet?.and when the bomb and the bullet could break not their spirit..faith loyalty or steadfastness?then the accusers sought to undermine them by all means political. It was then that I realised what the ?bigots? were doing. They were sending a message of support to a forgotten and isolated people?.their songs were extending a hand across the sea.?a hand of friendship?letting them know they were not forgotten?not abandoned. They were honouring the promises their country had given centuries before. It seems there are still some within our country who feel it important to honour promises given, But back to theatre. The songs stopped?and neither man, woman or child spoke. For a minute within the theatre there was a respectful silence, impeccably observed. Again battles from history were on the agenda as thousands stood remembering the sacrifice of thousands. The husbands?sons?brothers?who never returned home, and who perished under the flags so many of the ?bigots? donned?.were no longer just a cross at Flanders?.the Somme?Ypres. For their memories were alive and their ultimate sacrifice cherished and respected. And as the heroes took to the field with poppies embroidered into their jerseys?I realised this was a club and support for whom the past was not just important?it was vital?.it shaped the people they were and everything they stood for and believed in. And what they stood for and what they both believed and aspired to be?was good. And as I streamed out of the theatre at the end?it dawned on me that if I even managed to achieve half of what I truly aspire to be as a man?then I too would be a ?bigot? RANGERS FOREVER

Ricardo.. Point 1 - I have no problem with that...but the point is he was in charge and sanctioned spending which was inapprorpriate to our income to an extent which placed us in dire financial straights.....we are still paying the price for that. Considering he is one of the most succesful businessmen in Scotland....thats not the kind of financial prudence I would expect from him. I heard him during a radio interview blame the debt on stadium redevelopment...correct me if Im wrong but during his tenure has not the only re-development been the club deck ? Point 2 - I realise there is a financial gulf between ourselves and England... but even that is disproportionate to the position we find ourselves in...we are not talking about buying top names...we are talking about the manager of Rangers shopping around in bargain basement...unable to even compete for some of Scotlands emerging talent. We have a dire squad because of financial mismanagement at the top....I fail to see how that is driving us forward. Point 3 - Given that SDM bought Rangers for ?6 million and we are now worth ?25 million I would say that was something of a healthy investment. I have no problems with his metals being used in the construction. However Azure catering which do the catering inside Ibrox is run by..? One of SDM's sons. So the metal sales are not the only benefit he enjoys. Point 4 - And I appreciate you never mentioned this but I will. His defence of Rangers and their supporters from a particularly vitriolic and sustained attack from quarters of the press ahs been nothing less than abysmal. I expect more action from the Rangers chairman when fans who died in the Ibrox disaster are being mocked in the press....and other such lies To say if a paper offends dont buy is not good enough. As I have always maintained I am neither a Murray lover or Murray hater...I am delighted with some of things he has done and disappointed with others. I dont feel the need to adopt a polarised view one way or another. I feel there are arguements on both sides.

Lets be clear Ricardo....I am not a Murray hater....what I do hate however is the blind allegiance to the man and the atitude that he can do no wrong. There is no point calling for SDM to go when you dont have any viable replacement....and as far as Im aware there are none at present. But to answer your points... SDM "saving" the club ? ....can I point out to you it was his financial mismanagement which caused the problem in the first place. Furthermore he has not saved us with his personal fortune as you suggest...the Rangers debt has been carried over into Murray International Metals. Perhaps eventually, he will discharge that debt from his own personal fortune..but to date he hasn't. As for him driving the club forward strategically.....when he came to Rangers we were able to purchase some of the top players in the UK...now after years of his tenure our managers for a no. of years have been forced to shop around in bargain basement snapping up Bosmans and duds such as Egil/Emerson/Bernard which no-one else has wanted. Im sorry but I dont think that is evidence of him driving us forward Regarding the appointment of PLG - totally agree and not SDM's fault that it did not work out. But it is not fair to label anyone with who doesn't blindly follow SDM as a Murray hater...I think it is right and proper to question some of his actions where they concern the club I have followed for over 40 years. If you dont like it...then basically tough shit....if Im asking questions based on facts....then I make no apologies for upsetting those who want to follow blindly without question.

So because you do not agree with his opinion you want a fellow Bear banned ? :o Surely the proper way to conduct this is to challenge the things he has to say...after all it is a debating forum.. Can I ask you why should we blindly trust...as you seem to be advocating... a man who led us to the brink of financial ruin ? Who made a no. of promises which he has failed to keep....and who has in the past been at the very least economical with the truth surrounding certain things at our club.

Most definetly CanadaGer...its about time the supporters had a democractically elected voice within Ibrox. They are also not afraid to tackle press lies about our club and have done some very good work with regards to that.

I have to say ...I fail to understand why today's performance should serve as a benchmark for Barry to go... However perhaps its the revelations in SOS which form the basis of Cooper's post.

Hear Hear ! A Rangers legend let down by 11 imposters

Well it appears to be the worst kept secret in Scottish football?.following PLG?s departure Walter Smith appears to be the man to replace him at our club?.though it would appear as some sort of management pair with Super Ally. I think no matter the titles apportioned to either of them?.in the first few months Walter will be running the show whether he be director of football or manager. The reason I emphasise this point is that the buck will stop with Walter and not Ally?.and that?s the way it should be?he is the seasoned veteran...the warhorse. I have to say as well?..I take my hat off to Walter?he has much to lose and accepting this position is probably the biggest gamble of his managerial career. He could have stayed in the well paid job at the SFA where he has earned much respect throughout Scotland with his management of the Scotland side?achieving heights few would have dreamed of when he took over from the inept Bertie Vogts. Furthermore the expectations at managing Scotland, with all due respect to our country, will never be the same as those managing Rangers?given the size, reputation, expectation and potential of our club. Furthermore there is the huge media scrutiny surrounding being the manger of Rangers?.with a press pack far less favourably disposed to our club than that of the Scottish national side. Often that kind of goldfish bowl scrutiny impacts on the family as well as those at the sharp end so to speak. In addition history appears to side against Walter?with the dictum of ?never go back? echoing in the ears and one only has to look at our very own Jock Wallace?s second stint in charge for verification. Walter delivered an astonishing NIAR for this club?and for this Bear he was always a hero. Yes he was well funded during that period and did inherit an excellent squad of players from the previous incumbent. But this time is different. Funds are not as available as they once were, in fact they appear to be severely restricted and he inherits a poor squad of underachievers?with apparent dressing room tensions. Which it makes it almost unbelievable that Walter would leave the extremely comfortable niche` he has for himself to take the mammoth and daunting task which lies ahead at our shambles of a club. But against all the logic and reason which has been aforementioned one thing has been omitted which is crucial in recognising why a man would go against all reasoning and logic and make such a decision. Walter Smith is a Ranger man through and through. At a time of its most urgent need Rangers Football Club called upon Walter, and without thought for himself, he answered the call. Quite simply in a week where there has been arguments about who or what is a true Ranger, a true leader, Walter Smith stands alone for this Bear in the nomination stakes. The fact that the odds are against him, the fact that he is inheriting a shambles, the fact that the easy remedy of buying our way out of trouble is not an option, the fact that his personal reputation which had been restored is being put on the line matters not a jot to Walter. Rangers called.. and Walter answered irrespective of the self sacrifice involved. If ever these immortal words deserved to be heaped on one individual?.then I think Walter Smith personifies them?. ?No true Ranger has ever failed in the tradition set him? Come Monday?if the press reports are accurate regarding the appointment?there will be a Rangers legend sitting in the manager?s seat. RANGERS FOREVER