Sick of all the PC brigade

[minstral 5,375]

I think its time to let the world know that we are a Protestant club and not ashamed of it. For a start we should bring back the annual Orange parade to Ibrox where it belongs and dont worry what the PC brigade think. If it was good enough for our fathers and grandfathers to be proud of our protestant traditions, then we should all be proud and stop trying to appease the Pc brigade. I think the club should have a flute band at every home game to entertain our fans and play the Sash before every home game. We should welcome all religions to Ibrox but stop being scared to tell the whole world that we are a protestant club and not ashamed of our past.

minstral cant read all the posts,but i think you are wrong.

you would sign Kaka in a heartbeat,you would have Rino back and wee Mo..etc. to short sighted sir.

but "God SaveThe Queen",should be played..us oldies remember tellys that finished with it .EVERY night..for all religions.

I have already said that all religions are welcome at our club, but we should all remember that our Protestant support helped make us into one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Substitute 'Scottish' for 'Protestant' and I'd agree with you. It's not just the Irish that have a 'diaspora' after all.

What about Scottish Protestants.

Fine. You can include Ulster Scots in that as well if you want. I'm not ashamed of or washing my hands of our Protestant identity - as a boy brought up by Protestant parents in Lanarkshire in the 1970s I was naturally drawn to Ibrox (via a brief detour to what was felt by my folks to be the safer environment of Firhill). I just want to put it into context. Folk like to have a go at Ally on here but I think that's pure jealousy. The feeling seems to be that he has 'deserted the cause' due to his involvement (amongst many without doubt) with a Catholic charity. How any true Rangers fan could doubt Ally's commitment to the cause is beyond me. The fact is, Ally outgrew the parochial concerns of Glasgow and Lanarkshire without in any shape or form losing his identity or his love for Rangers FC. It's something a few of our fans could maybe take on board.

Its a shame that a player from the scum would not come out and do something fo a Rangers charity, but they dont want to be loved by everyone.

[MacWoodburn 2]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

I don't have A Problem with that either. All My Family Are Catholics Apart From Me & My Dad. so I think I can Take It on Board.

[papaguy51 912]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

It's either;

Bears arguing with Bears.

Too many politics for a football club.

Or

People denying that we're a historically Protestant club, but a club who has modernised and doesn't have the same religious restraints as before.

Depression from every angle!

[papaguy51 912]

minstral cant read all the posts,but i think you are wrong.

you would sign Kaka in a heartbeat,you would have Rino back and wee Mo..etc. to short sighted sir.

but "God SaveThe Queen",should be played..us oldies remember tellys that finished with it .EVERY night..for all religions.

Kaka is one of Brazil's few Protestant players

[minstral 5,375]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

It's either;

Bears arguing with Bears.

Too many politics for a football club.

Or

People denying that we're a historically Protestant club, but a club who has modernised and doesn't have the same religious restraints as before.

Depression from every angle!

Papa its been a interesting debate and very enjoyable.

[MacWoodburn 2]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

It's either;

Bears arguing with Bears.

Too many politics for a football club.

Or

People denying that we're a historically Protestant club, but a club who has modernised and doesn't have the same religious restraints as before.

Depression from every angle!

It's being modern and leaving the spine behind that saddens me!

[papaguy51 912]

Yes, yes.

People who forget our history depress me also.

[minstral 5,375]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

It's either;

Bears arguing with Bears.

Too many politics for a football club.

Or

People denying that we're a historically Protestant club, but a club who has modernised and doesn't have the same religious restraints as before.

Depression from every angle!

It's being modern and leaving the spine behind that saddens me!

Nail in the head.

[DougieJ 0]

Am I the only one on RM that never reads this sort of thread?

It depresses me

Aw cheer up Papa ,it ain't that bad

It's either;

Bears arguing with Bears.

Too many politics for a football club.

Or

People denying that we're a historically Protestant club, but a club who has modernised and doesn't have the same religious restraints as before.

Depression from every angle!

I know what you mean, but I think we as a support need to work these things out, and that is the value of forums like this. At the risk of further depressing you, I travelled to Manchester for the Uefa cup final like countless others just to watch the game on the big screen (so I thought) amongst fellow bears. I felt incredible pride at the sheer numbers of Rangers fans who were there and the positive atmosphere which was reported in the early editions of the Manchester Evening News. Needless to say, this turned sour, not because of the result, which was always on the cards, but because of the aftermath. No point in going over this again, but there's no doubt that, regardless of the competence of any given Polis, we attract elements that I'd rather had nothing to do with our club. Our supposed 'ultra loyalist' identity unfortunately does attract these types though, whether we like it or not.

[Dietspam 733]

I'd say the majority of Rangers fans are Atheists actually. And most protestants are pretty much Atheist as well. Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I'm not sure how Religion attached itself to our club. My Dad told me something like alot of people from came over to work on the ship yards, and went to Rangers games, sung their songs and it caught on. But he talks so much shite, it's hard to know what's real.

Rangers History? It's about the Football for me.

Scottish League championships (52)

1891, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1939, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009.

Cup Winners' Cup winners (1)

1972

Scottish Cup winners (33)

1894, 1897, 1898, 1903, 1928, 1930, 1932, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2008, 2009.

League Cup winners (25)

1947, 1949, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2008.

It's about what we've won and what we've done on the park that makes Rangers so great for me.

[papaguy51 912]

Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I think that's it in one Dietspam.

Nothing worse than hearing someone say: "I support Rangers/Celtic therefore I'm Protestant/Catholic."

I do not see myself as a Protestant, as you say. Definitely Athiest, as I don't do the whole Church thing. That's not to say that I'm not fiercely proud of our club's roots though, as I am and will always defend them.

[DougieJ 0]

Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I think that's it in one Dietspam.

Nothing worse than hearing someone say: "I support Rangers/Celtic therefore I'm Protestant/Catholic."

I do not see myself as a Protestant, as you say. Definitely Athiest, as I don't do the whole Church thing. That's not to say that I'm not fiercely proud of our club's roots though, as I am and will always defend them.

Great, as long as folk remember that we were formed in Glasgow in 1872 by lads from the Gareloch, not in the shadow of Harland & Wolff's 'Samson & Goliath' as is often implied. The Ulster connection took hold in the 1920s (50 years into the club's existence), when the Belfast shipyard H&W opened a shipyard in Glasgow. As said before, not denying our heritage but it's definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog as far as I'm concerned.

[Dietspam 733]

Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I think that's it in one Dietspam.

Nothing worse than hearing someone say: "I support Rangers/Celtic therefore I'm Protestant/Catholic."

I do not see myself as a Protestant, as you say. Definitely Athiest, as I don't do the whole Church thing. That's not to say that I'm not fiercely proud of our club's roots though, as I am and will always defend them.

Great, as long as folk remember that we were formed in Glasgow in 1872 by lads from the Gareloch, not in the shadow of Harland & Wolff's 'Samson & Goliath' as is often implied. The Ulster connection took hold in the 1920s (50 years into the club's existence), when the Belfast shipyard H&W opened a shipyard in Glasgow. As said before, not denying our heritage but it's definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog as far as I'm concerned.

So My dad wasn't talking shite then? That's how it pretty much happened?

[FUDGIE52 9]

Dietspam religion,s not the root of all evil.............man is if people followed the true meaning of religion the world would be a much better place

and even if there was no religion men would still fight and kill whether it was over colour,money, land, greed etc.etc.

As a species man connot get along as history has proven.

[KingKai 439]

Are we at a point in the clubs history where its changing?

I considered myself Protestant when I was young, but I never went to church, except through school etc.

My dad played football, and wasnt a follower, so my memory as to how I loved Rangers is vague.

Now I do remember parties where 'Sellick stuff' was thrown around the house and treated with 'disdain' ( for a better word)

In fact I remember when I was real young I heard my dad was on Sellicks books as a goalie, but im not sure if thats true and not that I care!

I lived inthe east end, and crowds of us used to go to Ibrox every week..in fact a lot of the times, we'd be the ones starting the singing in the "Derry'

No Surrender..The sash..Dolly's Brae.. these werent Rangers songs 'per se'..but AT THAT TIME..they were considered as part of the Ibrox 'song book'..just as "We'll suport you evermore' was..or Follow Follow.

The Billy Boys really came alive in the early 80's I would guess...although even in my time it was a great song.

Im not there every week singing, so have no idea what the atmosphere is like...all I know is, as in Minstral's time, it used to be 'Electric'..

We were all 'one'...'The people', a game against 'them' was fantastic, all the 'berrs' together going mental!

So it seems some think we shouldnt be singing ceratin songs, they only go for the football etc. take the religous aspect out , and you still have a football team to support.

That may be true, but for a lot of us 'older' boys, Rangers stood for a whole lot more.

Is Murray attempting to change that? Certainly sounds like it.

While Im all for anyone of any religion playing for our great team, I think it behooves ALL of our support to remember, who we are, where we came from, and what we ONCE stood for at the very least.

[StevenDavis 112]

Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I think that's it in one Dietspam.

Nothing worse than hearing someone say: "I support Rangers/Celtic therefore I'm Protestant/Catholic."

I do not see myself as a Protestant, as you say. Definitely Athiest, as I don't do the whole Church thing. That's not to say that I'm not fiercely proud of our club's roots though, as I am and will always defend them.

I'm the same, I don't really care about religion on all honesty, I support Rangers cause I've been brought up to do so, and the majority of my family support Rangers, not because I'm technically a Protestant.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

Are we at a point in the clubs history where its changing?

I considered myself Protestant when I was young, but I never went to church, except through school etc.

My dad played football, and wasnt a follower, so my memory as to how I loved Rangers is vague.

Now I do remember parties where 'Sellick stuff' was thrown around the house and treated with 'disdain' ( for a better word)

In fact I remember when I was real young I heard my dad was on Sellicks books as a goalie, but im not sure if thats true and not that I care!

I lived inthe east end, and crowds of us used to go to Ibrox every week..in fact a lot of the times, we'd be the ones starting the singing in the "Derry'

No Surrender..The sash..Dolly's Brae.. these werent Rangers songs 'per se'..but AT THAT TIME..they were considered as part of the Ibrox 'song book'..just as "We'll suport you evermore' was..or Follow Follow.

The Billy Boys really came alive in the early 80's I would guess...although even in my time it was a great song.

Im not there every week singing, so have no idea what the atmosphere is like...all I know is, as in Minstral's time, it used to be 'Electric'..

We were all 'one'...'The people', a game against 'them' was fantastic, all the 'berrs' together going mental!

So it seems some think we shouldnt be singing ceratin songs, they only go for the football etc. take the religous aspect out , and you still have a football team to support.

That may be true, but for a lot of us 'older' boys, Rangers stood for a whole lot more.

Is Murray attempting to change that? Certainly sounds like it.

While Im all for anyone of any religion playing for our great team, I think it behooves ALL of our support to remember, who we are, where we came from, and what we ONCE stood for at the very least.

The song Book at Ibrox now is,

No Surrender

Follow Follow

The Blue sea of Ibrox

Rangers till I die

Fathers advice

The Sash, But some people to scared to sing it. incase the Offended Brigade start shouting there mouths off.

There will be many many more. but they are the songs that if/mostly get sung at Ibrox and Defo away from home. with a wee bit Udr4 & Build My Gallows Flung in there too.

[Zappa 358]

Are we at a point in the clubs history where its changing?

Rangers Football Club is always changing, but since we're talking about the fans & support here, then yes it's changing in that sense too (not trying to start something here with the separation of Club & support, but that's the way it is). The consciousness of the fans & support has been changing for quite a number of years & I honestly don't think it's the fault of a 'PC brigade' or even SDM as some here on this thread are implying. Despite their foul attempts, I don't even believe that the mhedia can be blamed to any great extent either (although I definitely think there is a green campaign & not the type that involves windmills). Personally, I think that what we're talking about here is a combination of important factors & those are (in no real order):-

- 1) Our new generations form their own (don't laugh) beliefs on all the matters involved in this type of subject or discussion.

- 2) Over the years, we as individuals have formed our own (again, don't laugh) beliefs on all the matters involved in this type of subject or discussion)

- 3) Religions are falling apart. Despite their followers, they're surely being exposed as the sham that they are, as institutions organized by people who wanted to control other people.

- 3) The internet is the new religion. Even masses of people in 'radical' Islam are moving away from their roots in disgust at their lives and radical society at large & moving into a new age. It's the modernization of society & it's not an accident, it's the religion of our time. What's it's name? I don't know. Communication?

- 4) Despite many things pointing to the contrary (we don't need to go into it here), the vast majority of people still believe they are 'FREE' & that they have the right to ALL of the things attributed to 'freedom'. They are wrong. Our rights are governed & whether anyone here happened to notice or not, rights are being taken AWAY from us, not given TO us. Our new age communication? - monitored at levels that human communication has never been monitored before.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Great, as long as folk remember that we were formed in Glasgow in 1872 by lads from the Gareloch, not in the shadow of Harland & Wolff's 'Samson & Goliath' as is often implied. The Ulster connection took hold in the 1920s (50 years into the club's existence), when the Belfast shipyard H&W opened a shipyard in Glasgow. As said before, not denying our heritage but it's definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog as far as I'm concerned.

Dougie to be honest thats a popular misconception. If you read the research by Graham Walker or Bill Murray in their books you will find that the historical event you refer to ( H & W) was not the catalyst to Rangers absorption of a Protestant identity.

It started way before that and seemed to be a response to the overtly Catholic/Irish identity of Celtic FC. In fact around the turn of the century Celtic were often referred to as "The Irishmen" by the popular press. The Scottish people yearned for a football club which reflected their culture in the same way Celtic represented the Irish/Catholic community. Rangers (probably for reasons based mainly around transportation) became that Scottish/Protestant platform.

Further proof exists from 1912 when the Home Rule crisis in Ireland was on the go. John Ure Primrose, a Rangers chairman, shared the same political platform as Edward Carson - lending his support to the cause and encouraging Glaswiegans to follow suit.

Prior to 1920 Rangers were playing charity matches to raise funds for The Orange Order.

Walker also comments on the emergence of the Union flag at Ibrox round about this time. Bear in mind that during this period we also had a World War and the Easter uprising.

Therefore its probably pretty fair to suggest that' given the foregoing evidence' that the shipworkers who came across to Scotland attached themselves to a club which already had a very strong Protestan identity rather than moulded such an identity themselves.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,792]

PC is dyin on it's arse and the enemy, apologists and handwringers know it, they like the bheggars are on the run. They actually thought we'd buckle under pressure, nae chance gypsies time for you to hitch up yer caravans and go home or suffer the consequences.

[grahamteuchter 1]

PC is dyin on it's arse and the enemy, apologists and handwringers know it, they like the bheggars are on the run. They actually thought we'd buckle under pressure, nae chance gypsies time for you to hitch up yer caravans and go home or suffer the consequences.

eh?

[AMMS 27]

Great, as long as folk remember that we were formed in Glasgow in 1872 by lads from the Gareloch, not in the shadow of Harland & Wolff's 'Samson & Goliath' as is often implied. The Ulster connection took hold in the 1920s (50 years into the club's existence), when the Belfast shipyard H&W opened a shipyard in Glasgow. As said before, not denying our heritage but it's definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog as far as I'm concerned.

Dougie to be honest thats a popular misconception. If you read the research by Graham Walker or Bill Murray in their books you will find that the historical event you refer to ( H & W) was not the catalyst to Rangers absorption of a Protestant identity.

It started way before that and seemed to be a response to the overtly Catholic/Irish identity of Celtic FC. In fact around the turn of the century Celtic were often referred to as "The Irishmen" by the popular press. The Scottish people yearned for a football club which reflected their culture in the same way Celtic represented the Irish/Catholic community. Rangers (probably for reasons based mainly around transportation) became that Scottish/Protestant platform.

Further proof exists from 1912 when the Home Rule crisis in Ireland was on the go. John Ure Primrose, a Rangers chairman, shared the same political platform as Edward Carson - lending his support to the cause and encouraging Glaswiegans to follow suit.

Prior to 1920 Rangers were playing charity matches to raise funds for The Orange Order.

Walker also comments on the emergence of the Union flag at Ibrox round about this time. Bear in mind that during this period we also had a World War and the Easter uprising.

Therefore its probably pretty fair to suggest that' given the foregoing evidence' that the shipworkers who came across to Scotland attached themselves to a club which already had a very strong Protestan identity rather than moulded such an identity themselves.

All good and well but if it hadn't been for the Govan ferry and the ineptitude of the Thistle board of the early 20th century we'd all be wearing red and yellow scarves. The fact that Rangers had a decent team and Govan was more easily accessible than Maryhill is a far bigger reason we are who we are.

[minstral 5,375]

Sure, they will claim to be a Protestant, ask them if they believe in God and they don't. Religion is dying, thankfully. It is the root of all evil. What a life it would be without it.

I think that's it in one Dietspam.

Nothing worse than hearing someone say: "I support Rangers/Celtic therefore I'm Protestant/Catholic."

I do not see myself as a Protestant, as you say. Definitely Athiest, as I don't do the whole Church thing. That's not to say that I'm not fiercely proud of our club's roots though, as I am and will always defend them.

Great, as long as folk remember that we were formed in Glasgow in 1872 by lads from the Gareloch, not in the shadow of Harland & Wolff's 'Samson & Goliath' as is often implied. The Ulster connection took hold in the 1920s (50 years into the club's existence), when the Belfast shipyard H&W opened a shipyard in Glasgow. As said before, not denying our heritage but it's definitely a case of the tail wagging the dog as far as I'm concerned.

So My dad wasn't talking shite then? That's how it pretty much happened?

You should try and read up about our history and find out about our support.

[AMMS 27]

All this talk of 'history', very little talk of the future, have a look around you guys, see which way the wind is blowing.

The arrogance of the assumption that our 'protestant identity' somehow needs the Orange Order is bizarre. I've stated before the OO is an irrelevant organisation, the vast majority of us have no connection to it and no desire to have, what's so difficult to understand about that? Modern 'Protestantism' in Scotland has very little to do with Orangism, seems to me Rangers stance is entirely in keeping with the stance of the vast majority of Scottish Protestants, therefore they mirror our 'Protestant heritage' perfectly. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the numbers of people who'll march through Glasgow during the next Orange parade? Bet more protestants go to Braehead that day, do you want them to have a march round Ibrox too?