Am I a Bigot?

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,912]

read your post back!

I've more respect for a bigot who has reached their beliefs through their own thinking, rather than someone who spews bile taught to them since childhood with no understanding of what they are saying.

the only song you mention is the sash

[minstral 5,375]

Frankie, whilst I can appreciate the reasons for your view, whether it be right or wrong, I think you are in danger of using the so-called 'conspiracy theory' as an excuse for reverting to the old ways. You rightly say the club/support has taken great steps to put our own house in order, the difference now to twenty years ago is marked, just asked some of the older posters whatever their opinion on the direction the club is taken. Most gers fans would accept that on occasion elements of our support do continue to let us down with their behaviour. Now by no means I'm I saying we are any worse/better than Celtic or anyone else, in fact thats where I see the problem. We love to be better than them, whether it's on the park, in Europe or at having the best fans. But by constantly comparing our behaviour we are in danger of stagnating. We reach a point where we do so much, i.e. banning TBB, TFS, FTP chants, etc. etc., and we don't see this change embraced by our east end neighbours, so we, perhaps rightly, think we are better than them. But that ignores the problems we still have. Yes there will always be elements of bigoted behaviour, but does that mean the club should condone it?

So by thinking that they are just out to get us, causes resentment amongst the fans. It makes us think if they can do it, why can't we. It perhaps encourages protest behaviour, and I'm convinced TFS was in direct response to this. It also shifts the focus away from the good we have done and the work still to be done, onto a supposed conspiracy theory. Even if, and it's a big IF, there was a conspiracy theory, it doesn't make any of the reported behaviour right. Bigotry is still bigotry whether its reported fairly or not.

At the end of the day, it doesn't concern me if they are out to get us. Let them stoop to cowardly tactics whilst doing nothing to change their IRA chanting ways. Time will show who the real embracers of social change are, and I'm convinced years from now the headlines will be different. Rangers will reap the benefits from the work we have done and must continue to do. The next big step for me is social education. Take the message to the classrooms, to the kids, and reap the benefits in future generations.

I'm all for freedom of speech, and by no means do I believe that people should be TOLD what to think, but I don't think its an elaborate claim that education generally removes discrimination, sectarianism. Part of the problem for me is in the words, 'The Sash My Father Wore'. Parents teach their kids beliefs and values, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but more importantly what we need to teach our kids is to think for themselves. Challenge what you are taught and come to your own decisions. Don't wear your fathers sash, wear your own. I've more respect for a bigot who has reached their beliefs through their own thinking, rather than someone who spews bile taught to them since childhood with no understanding of what they are saying.

What is your problem with the Sash My Father Wore as you have admitted that its not bigoted.

[bjorkland 13]

read your post back!

I've more respect for a bigot who has reached their beliefs through their own thinking, rather than someone who spews bile taught to them since childhood with no understanding of what they are saying.

the only song you mention is the sash

Metaphorically, not literally.

[bjorkland 13]

What is your problem with the Sash My Father Wore as you have admitted that its not bigoted.

None at all.

I said the words 'The Sash My Father Wore', illustrates the problem of bigotry as I see it. It was a metaphor, not a literally condemnation of The Sash. Read my post back and hopefully this makes sense

[Bluedell 14]

Bigotry is still bigotry whether its reported fairly or not.

But what is bigotry? A large part of the problem is that it is not easily defined.

Some people claim that "The Sash" is. Some would claim that the "Go Home" song is. Some even claim BJK is. I don't believe any of these are, and therefore I will defend people's right to sing them, even though I'm not a fan of the latter two. people may claim theiy are offensive, but hey, we're football fans. That's what we do.

The authorities have refused on countless occasions to get round the table and discuss what is and what is not acceptable in respect of bigotry, and will not have a rational and reasoned debate and come up with reasons behind their arguments. Until they do, it will be dictated by those with the loudest voice, ie journalists with an agenda.

[bjorkland 13]

Bigotry is still bigotry whether its reported fairly or not.

But what is bigotry? A large part of the problem is that it is not easily defined.

Some people claim that "The Sash" is. Some would claim that the "Go Home" song is. Some even claim BJK is. I don't believe any of these are, and therefore I will defend people's right to sing them, even though I'm not a fan of the latter two. people may claim theiy are offensive, but hey, we're football fans. That's what we do.

The authorities have refused on countless occasions to get round the table and discuss what is and what is not acceptable in respect of bigotry, and will not have a rational and reasoned debate and come up with reasons behind their arguments. Until they do, it will be dictated by those with the loudest voice, ie journalists with an agenda.

Well Bigotry is defined as an irrational and intolerable devotion to ones own beliefs and opinions, to the point of hatred towards others of a different view.

The hard things is to determine whether any given 'bigoted' action is done out of hatred or not, because such feelings are internal. It requires us to be honest with ourselves and each other. I would perhaps argue that intolerable hatred of Celtic, rather than Catholicism or Republicism could be classed as bigotry. Hence under that definition when a song or chant is used purely out of hatred of Celtic, then it would be bigoted. So taken by themselves words to songs aren't bigoted, unless they are sung with hatred. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure, I would argue that some songs/chants are.

It's a grey area I agree, and I'm by no means the expert.

[Bluedell 14]

Bigotry is still bigotry whether its reported fairly or not.

But what is bigotry? A large part of the problem is that it is not easily defined.

Some people claim that "The Sash" is. Some would claim that the "Go Home" song is. Some even claim BJK is. I don't believe any of these are, and therefore I will defend people's right to sing them, even though I'm not a fan of the latter two. people may claim theiy are offensive, but hey, we're football fans. That's what we do.

The authorities have refused on countless occasions to get round the table and discuss what is and what is not acceptable in respect of bigotry, and will not have a rational and reasoned debate and come up with reasons behind their arguments. Until they do, it will be dictated by those with the loudest voice, ie journalists with an agenda.

Well Bigotry is defined as an irrational and intolerable devotion to ones own beliefs and opinions, to the point of hatred towards others of a different view.

The hard things is to determine whether any given 'bigoted' action is done out of hatred or not, because such feelings are internal. It requires us to be honest with ourselves and each other. I would perhaps argue that intolerable hatred of Celtic, rather than Catholicism or Republicism could be classed as bigotry. Hence under that definition when a song or chant is used purely out of hatred of Celtic, then it would be bigoted. So taken by themselves words to songs aren't bigoted, unless they are sung with hatred. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure, I would argue that some songs/chants are.

It's a grey area I agree, and I'm by no means the expert.

When the term bigotry is used in Scotland, it is implicit that it is referring to religious bigotry and it is that which we should be trying to get rid of.

If you are expanding the definition then it's taking the thread in a whole different direction.

BTW, I hate Celtic and I don't see anything wrong with that and it doesn't make me a bigot.

[bjorkland 13]

When the term bigotry is used in Scotland, it is implicit that it is referring to religious bigotry and it is that which we should be trying to get rid of.

If you are expanding the definition then it's taking the thread in a whole different direction.

BTW, I hate Celtic and I don't see anything wrong with that and it doesn't make me a bigot.

What you refer to is sectarianism. Bigotry isn't confined to religion.

Again there are distinctions that need to be made. You can hate Celtic for a good reason and not be a bigot. But if you have no justifiable reasons and your hatred is irrational then by definition that is bigotry. Also you can hate the organisation of Celtic FC, but if you then also hate all those associated with it purely for their association, that again is unreasonable.

A lot depends on rationality, intent and purpose

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,912]

Hence under that definition when a song or chant is used purely out of hatred of Celtic, then it would be bigoted. So taken by themselves words to songs aren't bigoted, unless they are sung with hatred. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure, I would argue that some songs/chants are.

so if i sing any song hitting all the b's and g's im ok. But if i sang with veins popping out my neck im being a bigot?

[bjorkland 13]

Hence under that definition when a song or chant is used purely out of hatred of Celtic, then it would be bigoted. So taken by themselves words to songs aren't bigoted, unless they are sung with hatred. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure, I would argue that some songs/chants are.

so if i sing any song hitting all the b's and g's im ok. But if i sang with veins popping out my neck im being a bigot?

Well intent has a lot to do with it I think.

To try and simplify it, which is never easy, the statement 'I hate you' could be said two ways. I could say 'I hate you' and not mean it, therefore the statement doesn't have a hateful intent, and isn't meant as an insult. But I could say 'I hate you' and mean it, so the hateful intent is there.

Similarly the statement 'I hate you' can be taken in two ways. I could say 'I hate you' but you could not be offended by it, therefore if you aren't offended it can't be an offensive comment. But I could say 'I hate you' and you could be offended, hence the statement is offensive.

The problem is no other than you can know for sure what the true intent of your statements are. And no one other than you can know for sure if you really are offended by something

[bluepeter 5,627]

Hence under that definition when a song or chant is used purely out of hatred of Celtic, then it would be bigoted. So taken by themselves words to songs aren't bigoted, unless they are sung with hatred. Whilst it's impossible to know for sure, I would argue that some songs/chants are.

so if i sing any song hitting all the b's and g's im ok. But if i sang with veins popping out my neck im being a bigot?

[Bluedell 14]

When the term bigotry is used in Scotland, it is implicit that it is referring to religious bigotry and it is that which we should be trying to get rid of.

If you are expanding the definition then it's taking the thread in a whole different direction.

BTW, I hate Celtic and I don't see anything wrong with that and it doesn't make me a bigot.

What you refer to is sectarianism. Bigotry isn't confined to religion.

I know. I thought that was clear in my previous post.

The OP and everybody else has been referring to religious bigotry.

[bjorkland 13]

When the term bigotry is used in Scotland, it is implicit that it is referring to religious bigotry and it is that which we should be trying to get rid of.

If you are expanding the definition then it's taking the thread in a whole different direction.

BTW, I hate Celtic and I don't see anything wrong with that and it doesn't make me a bigot.

What you refer to is sectarianism. Bigotry isn't confined to religion.

I know. I thought that was clear in my previous post.

The OP and everybody else has been referring to religious bigotry.

Cool, no probs.

[Frankie 505]

Frankie, whilst I can appreciate the reasons for your view, whether it be right or wrong, I think you are in danger of using the so-called 'conspiracy theory' as an excuse for reverting to the old ways. You rightly say the club/support has taken great steps to put our own house in order, the difference now to twenty years ago is marked, just asked some of the older posters whatever their opinion on the direction the club is taken. Most gers fans would accept that on occasion elements of our support do continue to let us down with their behaviour. Now by no means I'm I saying we are any worse/better than Celtic or anyone else, in fact thats where I see the problem. We love to be better than them, whether it's on the park, in Europe or at having the best fans. But by constantly comparing our behaviour we are in danger of stagnating. We reach a point where we do so much, i.e. banning TBB, TFS, FTP chants, etc. etc., and we don't see this change embraced by our east end neighbours, so we, perhaps rightly, think we are better than them. But that ignores the problems we still have. Yes there will always be elements of bigoted behaviour, but does that mean the club should condone it?

So by thinking that they are just out to get us, causes resentment amongst the fans. It makes us think if they can do it, why can't we. It perhaps encourages protest behaviour, and I'm convinced TFS was in direct response to this. It also shifts the focus away from the good we have done and the work still to be done, onto a supposed conspiracy theory. Even if, and it's a big IF, there was a conspiracy theory, it doesn't make any of the reported behaviour right. Bigotry is still bigotry whether its reported fairly or not.

At the end of the day, it doesn't concern me if they are out to get us. Let them stoop to cowardly tactics whilst doing nothing to change their IRA chanting ways. Time will show who the real embracers of social change are, and I'm convinced years from now the headlines will be different. Rangers will reap the benefits from the work we have done and must continue to do. The next big step for me is social education. Take the message to the classrooms, to the kids, and reap the benefits in future generations.

I'm all for freedom of speech, and by no means do I believe that people should be TOLD what to think, but I don't think its an elaborate claim that education generally removes discrimination, sectarianism. Part of the problem for me is in the words, 'The Sash My Father Wore'. Parents teach their kids beliefs and values, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but more importantly what we need to teach our kids is to think for themselves. Challenge what you are taught and come to your own decisions. Don't wear your fathers sash, wear your own. I've more respect for a bigot who has reached their beliefs through their own thinking, rather than someone who spews bile taught to them since childhood with no understanding of what they are saying.

Apologies for the delay in replying - on the golf course this morning... I'm not online long this afternoon either but here is a quick rebuttal.

To be clear I don't advocate the promotion of sectarianism - however, I see no problem with 'hatred' per se as that is part of football (and life generally). The only issue for me is when this hatred manifests itself in violence or racism/sectarianism. Offensive chants aren't an issue and have been part of football for as long as any of us will remember.

What I do promote is questioning the intentions of people who do challenge us. And when that challenge is erroneous; as it often is - or imbalanced; as it often is - then I see no reason to remove songs which can be debated.

In actual fact I agree with you that the 'Go Home' song originated via a response to the whole sectarianism sham. This is perhaps a flawed response but it certainly did prove that people hostile to our club will continue to challenge us even when the line is vague. That song is the perfect example of something that may well be offensive but is certainly not sectarian or racist. The message behind it is one mirrored in the Soldier Song, the Fields of Athenry and Let the People Sing but these songs have not been challenged despite them all being played over the official tannoy at Celtic Park.

What do you think the reaction would be if Rangers started playing the Sash this season before games? I think we both know the answer.

Therefore, I'm a bit unsure about your analogy. Of course people should be strong enough to lead their own lives but the message behind the Sash is not one of sectarianism or bigotry but pride and strength of character in the same way many national anthems work. As such the values are fine and I've no issue with it at all. I'm also not overly convinced people sing these songs because they agree with the message or background anyway. They are sung because they are songs easily identifiable with Rangers (as the Billy Boys is) not because we're all loyalists looking to overthrow catholicism.

The whole issue is taken too seriously by the people who look to promote is because they have selfish intentions - be it biased journalists looking to sell papers (and increase their wage) or politicians looking for votes (and increase their wage).

If these people were really serious they would not use football as some sort of flawed deflection from the real issues.

[AMMS 27]

Apologies for the delay in replying - on the golf course this morning... I'm not online long this afternoon either but here is a quick rebuttal.

Ha! The life of a mod on here is a hard one, don't over do it now on your way from the jacuzi to the all over body massage from the RangersMedia bearettes now.....

[Frankie 505]

Apologies for the delay in replying - on the golf course this morning... I'm not online long this afternoon either but here is a quick rebuttal.

Ha! The life of a mod on here is a hard one, don't over do it now on your way from the jacuzi to the all over body massage from the RangersMedia bearettes now.....

I need more than a massage after my performance with the driver today...

[nostragerus 1]

Defending martin o neill and Neil lennon, surely the straw that broke the camels back.....

Is calling Rangers fans orange bastards not enough bigotry for you ? Why would you defend that and constantly lay into fans of your own team ?

Unfortunately, I think some posters prefer the infamy of the continual contrary opinion to actually looking at subjects in a reasoned fashion.

The Neil Lennon DOB issue proves the point of slewed media/authority coverage perfectly. Why any Rangers fan would want to suggest Lennon isn't a bigot is beyond me?

I can sometimes be a bit contrary myself, you may have noticed..... At least it is my honest opinion though. I have never met/spoke to/encountered online a Rangers fan who doesn't think Lennon is a scumbag and a bigot.

He spat on a Rangers scarf and has publicly stated how much he hates our club, who would even begin to defend that......

Good luck getting an answer from that breed of fan.

They can never back up their opinion with anything worthy.

you shut it you tried to compare Martin O'neill and Kenny miller a few days ago.......

I hate Lennon more than I hate McGeady and I know he hates us.. so what.. I hate them equally as much.

The fact is he played for NI, something that a large % of people from NI would never do.

There is a difference imo.

can you tell me what well known players from n ireland who refused to play for n ireland at the same time o,neill and lennon played for n ireland?

still awaiting the names of any players

[Thistledhub 2]

Religion, all religion is bollocks.

I am by birth a Protestant and a Scot. From an early age I was a Gers fan. After seeing many deaths in the name of religion, some of them up close, I dont like religion.

I am still a Gers fan!

[minstral 5,375]

Religion, all religion is bollocks.

I am by birth a Protestant and a Scot. From an early age I was a Gers fan. After seeing many deaths in the name of religion, some of them up close, I dont like religion.

I am still a Gers fan!

No its not, be careful as god is watching you.

[nostragerus 1]

Religion, all religion is bollocks.

I am by birth a Protestant and a Scot. From an early age I was a Gers fan. After seeing many deaths in the name of religion, some of them up close, I dont like religion.

I am still a Gers fan!

i take it your are not the rev i m jolly

[Thistledhub 2]

Religion, all religion is bollocks.

I am by birth a Protestant and a Scot. From an early age I was a Gers fan. After seeing many deaths in the name of religion, some of them up close, I dont like religion.

I am still a Gers fan!

No its not, be careful as god is watching you.

very good!

[brissybear 50]

Defending martin o neill and Neil lennon, surely the straw that broke the camels back.....

Is calling Rangers fans orange bastards not enough bigotry for you ? Why would you defend that and constantly lay into fans of your own team ?

Unfortunately, I think some posters prefer the infamy of the continual contrary opinion to actually looking at subjects in a reasoned fashion.

The Neil Lennon DOB issue proves the point of slewed media/authority coverage perfectly. Why any Rangers fan would want to suggest Lennon isn't a bigot is beyond me?

I can sometimes be a bit contrary myself, you may have noticed..... At least it is my honest opinion though. I have never met/spoke to/encountered online a Rangers fan who doesn't think Lennon is a scumbag and a bigot.

He spat on a Rangers scarf and has publicly stated how much he hates our club, who would even begin to defend that......

Good luck getting an answer from that breed of fan.

They can never back up their opinion with anything worthy.

you shut it you tried to compare Martin O'neill and Kenny miller a few days ago.......

I hate Lennon more than I hate McGeady and I know he hates us.. so what.. I hate them equally as much.

The fact is he played for NI, something that a large % of people from NI would never do.

There is a difference imo.

can you tell me what well known players from n ireland who refused to play for n ireland at the same time o,neill and lennon played for n ireland?

still awaiting the names of any players

Cant think of one, but would you hear about it?

Did they play at the same time?

Im basing my judgement on folk from NI I have met while over here. After NI beat Poland, withjout thinking I said, great result for you boys last night in the pub. I thought they were going to rip my head off.

the 3 boys drink, well used to drink in our local, and every one of them to a man didnt recognise NI. It simply didnt exist to them. One of the boys said Lennon was hated by republicans in NI for turning out for NI, the same with O'neill.

A bigot too me is someone who HATES and JUDGES a person just because of his religious or cultural beliefs. Neil Lennon and MON may very well be bigots, I dont know them personally and have never met them.

Every day folk are posting on here asking why they are perceived as bigots when most of them are not. The refrence to lennon and MON is in the context of the OP.

Have you ever called either of them a DFB? Have you ever chanted FTP? If you did, would you perceive youreslf as a bigot?

[MacWoodburn 2]

Defending martin o neill and Neil lennon, surely the straw that broke the camels back.....

Is calling Rangers fans orange bastards not enough bigotry for you ? Why would you defend that and constantly lay into fans of your own team ?

Unfortunately, I think some posters prefer the infamy of the continual contrary opinion to actually looking at subjects in a reasoned fashion.

The Neil Lennon DOB issue proves the point of slewed media/authority coverage perfectly. Why any Rangers fan would want to suggest Lennon isn't a bigot is beyond me?

I can sometimes be a bit contrary myself, you may have noticed..... At least it is my honest opinion though. I have never met/spoke to/encountered online a Rangers fan who doesn't think Lennon is a scumbag and a bigot.

He spat on a Rangers scarf and has publicly stated how much he hates our club, who would even begin to defend that......

Good luck getting an answer from that breed of fan.

They can never back up their opinion with anything worthy.

you shut it you tried to compare Martin O'neill and Kenny miller a few days ago.......

I hate Lennon more than I hate McGeady and I know he hates us.. so what.. I hate them equally as much.

The fact is he played for NI, something that a large % of people from NI would never do.

There is a difference imo.

can you tell me what well known players from n ireland who refused to play for n ireland at the same time o,neill and lennon played for n ireland?

still awaiting the names of any players

Cant think of one, but would you hear about it?

Did they play at the same time?

Im basing my judgement on folk from NI I have met while over here. After NI beat Poland, withjout thinking I said, great result for you boys last night in the pub. I thought they were going to rip my head off.

the 3 boys drink, well used to drink in our local, and every one of them to a man didnt recognise NI. It simply didnt exist to them. One of the boys said Lennon was hated by republicans in NI for turning out for NI, the same with O'neill.

A bigot too me is someone who HATES and JUDGES a person just because of his religious or cultural beliefs. Neil Lennon and MON may very well be bigots, I dont know them personally and have never met them.

Every day folk are posting on here asking why they are perceived as bigots when most of them are not. The refrence to lennon and MON is in the context of the OP.

Have you ever called either of them a DFB? Have you ever chanted FTP? If you did, would you perceive youreslf as a bigot?

For all the numbskull abuse and grief i've given you brissy , i'm deeply sorry ! Going by that post ,you're clearly only 2 years old ! Aw poor wee brissy , thought he was gonnae get his wee heid ripped aff!!!

Yes i am a bigot !!

[brissybear 50]

Defending martin o neill and Neil lennon, surely the straw that broke the camels back.....

Is calling Rangers fans orange bastards not enough bigotry for you ? Why would you defend that and constantly lay into fans of your own team ?

Unfortunately, I think some posters prefer the infamy of the continual contrary opinion to actually looking at subjects in a reasoned fashion.

The Neil Lennon DOB issue proves the point of slewed media/authority coverage perfectly. Why any Rangers fan would want to suggest Lennon isn't a bigot is beyond me?

I can sometimes be a bit contrary myself, you may have noticed..... At least it is my honest opinion though. I have never met/spoke to/encountered online a Rangers fan who doesn't think Lennon is a scumbag and a bigot.

He spat on a Rangers scarf and has publicly stated how much he hates our club, who would even begin to defend that......

Good luck getting an answer from that breed of fan.

They can never back up their opinion with anything worthy.

you shut it you tried to compare Martin O'neill and Kenny miller a few days ago.......

I hate Lennon more than I hate McGeady and I know he hates us.. so what.. I hate them equally as much.

The fact is he played for NI, something that a large % of people from NI would never do.

There is a difference imo.

can you tell me what well known players from n ireland who refused to play for n ireland at the same time o,neill and lennon played for n ireland?

still awaiting the names of any players

Cant think of one, but would you hear about it?

Did they play at the same time?

Im basing my judgement on folk from NI I have met while over here. After NI beat Poland, withjout thinking I said, great result for you boys last night in the pub. I thought they were going to rip my head off.

the 3 boys drink, well used to drink in our local, and every one of them to a man didnt recognise NI. It simply didnt exist to them. One of the boys said Lennon was hated by republicans in NI for turning out for NI, the same with O'neill.

A bigot too me is someone who HATES and JUDGES a person just because of his religious or cultural beliefs. Neil Lennon and MON may very well be bigots, I dont know them personally and have never met them.

Every day folk are posting on here asking why they are perceived as bigots when most of them are not. The refrence to lennon and MON is in the context of the OP.

Have you ever called either of them a DFB? Have you ever chanted FTP? If you did, would you perceive youreslf as a bigot?

For all the numbskull abuse and grief i've given you brissy , i'm deeply sorry ! Going by that post ,you're clearly only 2 years old ! Aw poor wee brissy , thought he was gonnae get his wee heid ripped aff!!!

Yes i am a bigot !!

Oh sorry Woody our resident forum hardman, I bow down to your superior grasp and retort in such a achallenging debate!

Wahts with your new moniker? A refrence to the ICF? My hero!

[MacWoodburn 2]

Defending martin o neill and Neil lennon, surely the straw that broke the camels back.....

Is calling Rangers fans orange bastards not enough bigotry for you ? Why would you defend that and constantly lay into fans of your own team ?

Unfortunately, I think some posters prefer the infamy of the continual contrary opinion to actually looking at subjects in a reasoned fashion.

The Neil Lennon DOB issue proves the point of slewed media/authority coverage perfectly. Why any Rangers fan would want to suggest Lennon isn't a bigot is beyond me?

I can sometimes be a bit contrary myself, you may have noticed..... At least it is my honest opinion though. I have never met/spoke to/encountered online a Rangers fan who doesn't think Lennon is a scumbag and a bigot.

He spat on a Rangers scarf and has publicly stated how much he hates our club, who would even begin to defend that......

Good luck getting an answer from that breed of fan.

They can never back up their opinion with anything worthy.

you shut it you tried to compare Martin O'neill and Kenny miller a few days ago.......

I hate Lennon more than I hate McGeady and I know he hates us.. so what.. I hate them equally as much.

The fact is he played for NI, something that a large % of people from NI would never do.

There is a difference imo.

can you tell me what well known players from n ireland who refused to play for n ireland at the same time o,neill and lennon played for n ireland?

still awaiting the names of any players

Cant think of one, but would you hear about it?

Did they play at the same time?

Im basing my judgement on folk from NI I have met while over here. After NI beat Poland, withjout thinking I said, great result for you boys last night in the pub. I thought they were going to rip my head off.

the 3 boys drink, well used to drink in our local, and every one of them to a man didnt recognise NI. It simply didnt exist to them. One of the boys said Lennon was hated by republicans in NI for turning out for NI, the same with O'neill.

A bigot too me is someone who HATES and JUDGES a person just because of his religious or cultural beliefs. Neil Lennon and MON may very well be bigots, I dont know them personally and have never met them.

Every day folk are posting on here asking why they are perceived as bigots when most of them are not. The refrence to lennon and MON is in the context of the OP.

Have you ever called either of them a DFB? Have you ever chanted FTP? If you did, would you perceive youreslf as a bigot?

For all the numbskull abuse and grief i've given you brissy , i'm deeply sorry ! Going by that post ,you're clearly only 2 years old ! Aw poor wee brissy , thought he was gonnae get his wee heid ripped aff!!!

Yes i am a bigot !!

Oh sorry Woody our resident forum hardman, I bow down to your superior grasp and retort in such a achallenging debate!

Wahts with your new moniker? A refrence to the ICF? My hero!

Apololy accepted .

Spellcheck Soul Crew #1