Ajax youth setup-a lesson for us?.

[MrSifter 181]

Scottish football does not produce any top quality players. This can be evidenced by our performances in Europe at Club level and at International level.

Further proof is the lack of Scottish players at top English and European clubs.

Any other nation (or indeed the individual clubs) would have some self analysis, look to where was producing quality players and try to emulate this.

"Clear your lines", "knock it into the corners", "get tore intae them", are the Scottish footballing battle cries.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality. WINNING MENTALITY!

Planning season to season.

I'm sure Walter said part of the reason young boys don't get a chance is because of the huge pressure to come first so he goes with experience.

I'm not saying we can't win anything if we focus on youth for a couple of seasons but if it meant we had a team capable of wiping the board for years to come and getting to the latter stages of European competitions I'd be happy to sacrifice a couple of shots at the Champions League

for the time being.

[flecky1 4]

OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality. WINNING MENTALITY!

Planning season to season.

I'm sure Walter said part of the reason young boys don't get a chance is because of the huge pressure to come first so he goes with experience.

I'm not saying we can't win anything if we focus on youth for a couple of seasons but if it meant we had a team capable of wiping the board for years to come and getting to the latter stages of European competitions I'd be happy to sacrifice a couple of shots at the Champions League

for the time being.

i dont agree with Walter on this, i think young boys can be just as talented and do just as well as experienced ones, he is just a stubborn manager who would rather play experience than skill/youth.

and i dont think we would have to sacrifice any success to bring through more kids, both can be done, we just need the right coach with right intelligence/bottle and coaching skills to do it.

[MrSifter 181]

Darren Fletcher's doing ok at Man United. Granted, he is an exception at that level. However, if you look at other countries of a similar size (Denmark, Norway, Finland for example), how many of their top players are playing at top, top European clubs? I'd also argue that Scotland is a bit unique; the top two teams are without doubt the best of all countries with a population of 5 million or less in the world. Therefore, youths here will aim to play for Rangers or Celtic, while a youth in, say, Denmark, will try and make a move abroad, to the Bundesliga, for example, as soon as possible.

This attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

The saddest thing is we have the aggressive mentality that, if it was combined with skill and intelligence, would give our players a real chance of doing very well.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality. WINNING MENTALITY!

Planning season to season.

I'm sure Walter said part of the reason young boys don't get a chance is because of the huge pressure to come first so he goes with experience.

I'm not saying we can't win anything if we focus on youth for a couple of seasons but if it meant we had a team capable of wiping the board for years to come and getting to the latter stages of European competitions I'd be happy to sacrifice a couple of shots at the Champions League

for the time being.

i dont agree with Walter on this, i think young boys can be just as talented and do just as well as experienced ones, he is just a stubborn manager who would rather play experience than skill/youth.

and i dont think we would have to sacrifice any success to bring through more kids, both can be done, we just need the right coach with right intelligence/bottle and coaching skills to do it.

yea i guess no-one knows if he would actually play youth if the pressure was off so to speak.

The bolded part i agree with as well but i'd hope if we fell just short while bringing through kids that the support would understand and not

kick up fuck and see we were a work in progress.

That's really what my reply to PIB was about,i don't think a lot of our support have the patience(IMO) if we didn't manage to retain the SPL while we're building for the future.

[flecky1 4]

OK, I'm a bit confused now about a Youth Academy, I'm sure that Rangers do have a youth academy which has under 10s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 17s, the under 19s and to a certain extent reserves?

Not only do we have these stages in development but we also have very strong links within the community now supporting education etc, both academically and supporting healthy living. The Youth set up I agree has taken a lot longer than what I expected and hoped for but there have been a few who have come through the ranks and there will be a lot more in the next couple of seasons, forget this rubbish about we should be giving the youth more of a chance because in all honesty if we had the finances to buy big and if we did buy big giving us success I doubt very much anyone on here would be complaining.

The lack of youth/buying big happens at most clubs, just look at Man City (now), Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd for some examples how many of their players actually came through their youth ranks without them paying millions of pounds for their top players, it sure as hell won't be 1 or 2 a season. Only Arsenal to a certain extent develop their youth, but when was the last time they won anything, and some of their young players they paid millions for them from other clubs.

We are Rangers, and we demand success, it doesn't matter if we have someone in charge at the top who can turn around and say tough, we're going to develop youth and if that means we don't win anything for a few years you're just going to have to get over it, it won't happen not with some of our fans because if we don't have success then some of our fans will stop attending matches etc.

That's a very interesting point me and a mate discussed,hard to put into words but the crux of it was both of us would be disappointed but accept not winning the league for a couple of seasons if it meant we would have a much stronger team for the future,and also touched on the fact that a lot of fans wouldn't be happy as the be all and end all is finishing above them and winning the SPL.

Short-term mentality. WINNING MENTALITY!

Planning season to season.

I'm sure Walter said part of the reason young boys don't get a chance is because of the huge pressure to come first so he goes with experience.

I'm not saying we can't win anything if we focus on youth for a couple of seasons but if it meant we had a team capable of wiping the board for years to come and getting to the latter stages of European competitions I'd be happy to sacrifice a couple of shots at the Champions League

for the time being.

i dont agree with Walter on this, i think young boys can be just as talented and do just as well as experienced ones, he is just a stubborn manager who would rather play experience than skill/youth.

and i dont think we would have to sacrifice any success to bring through more kids, both can be done, we just need the right coach with right intelligence/bottle and coaching skills to do it.

yea i guess no-one knows if he would actually play youth if the pressure was off so to speak.

The bolded part i agree with as well but i'd hope if we fell just short while bringing through kids that the support would understand and not

kick up fuck and see we were a work in progress.

That's really what my reply to PIB was about,i don't think a lot of our support have the patience(IMO) if we didn't manage to retain the SPL while we're building for the future.

[MrSifter 181]

I wouldn't say that Dorrans, McFadden, Hutton, Fletcher, Adam, Riordan, McCormack, McArthur etc are all 'technically deficient'.

Fletcher is the only one there that can be judged operating regularly at the top level and I'm quite happy to say the others mentioned are technically deficient. Do they have excellent first touches, shooting ability and range of passing?

[MrSifter 181]

Ok, if you can find a country similar to Scotland (in terms of population, climate, development) that has a significant amount more technically sound players than we do, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong

And that's us come full circle. As i originally replied this attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

Population undoubtedly gives us a smaller pool to fish in but attitudes towards youth development and attitudes towards being a truly professional athelete (and the sacrifices this entails) need to change or we will never get any better.

I don't believe we should just accept the status quo. My old Chairman had a motto for the company, "there is always a better way". This mentality has taken his organisation from a three person company in the 1970s to an organisation with a £1.2 billion income employing about 900 today.

Instead of bemoaning "population, climate, development" (not sure what defines development!?!?) we should be looking at a better way. Where better to start than emulating the countries known for consistently producing the best players?

[flecky1 4]

Ok, if you can find a country similar to Scotland (in terms of population, climate, development) that has a significant amount more technically sound players than we do, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong

And that's us come full circle. As i originally replied this attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

Population undoubtedly gives us a smaller pool to fish in but attitudes towards youth development and attitudes towards being a truly professional athelete (and the sacrifices this entails) need to change or we will never get any better.

I don't believe we should just accept the status quo. My old Chairman had a motto for the company, "there is always a better way". This mentality has taken his organisation from a three person company in the 1970s to an organisation with a £1.2 billion income employing about 900 today.

Instead of bemoaning "population, climate, development" (not sure what defines development!?!?) we should be looking at a better way. Where better to start than emulating the countries known for consistently producing the best players?

are croatia and holland, maybe serbia not small countries too? they seem to develop outstanding talents

even the smaller south american countries, they can all play football, basics come naturally to them unlike the scots who cant even do the basics on a pitch

[flecky1 4]

Ok, if you can find a country similar to Scotland (in terms of population, climate, development) that has a significant amount more technically sound players than we do, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong

And that's us come full circle. As i originally replied this attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

Population undoubtedly gives us a smaller pool to fish in but attitudes towards youth development and attitudes towards being a truly professional athelete (and the sacrifices this entails) need to change or we will never get any better.

I don't believe we should just accept the status quo. My old Chairman had a motto for the company, "there is always a better way". This mentality has taken his organisation from a three person company in the 1970s to an organisation with a £1.2 billion income employing about 900 today.

Instead of bemoaning "population, climate, development" (not sure what defines development!?!?) we should be looking at a better way. Where better to start than emulating the countries known for consistently producing the best players?

are croatia and holland, maybe serbia not small countries too? they seem to develop outstanding talents

even the smaller south american countries, they can all play football, basics come naturally to them unlike the scots who cant even do the basics on a pitch

The Netherlands have almost four times as many people as we do. Croatia, smaller population, but better climate and less developed, so it's easier for youngsters to play football in the street. Serbia have twice as many people as we do, and have a similar climate to Croatia.

fuck me, the girls have been busy in holland, i didnt know their population was upto 20million! thats news to me

cheers

[MrSifter 181]

Yeah I totally agree that we should always be trying to improve, but here at Rangers we have some brilliant young players coming through. I would say that we probably have one of the best academies in Britain, going on Europe if the current youths fulfil their potential.

(By the way, by development, I just meant how developed the country was economically, politically etc.)

I've been hearing for nearly 20 years about how great our youths coming through are and we've hardly any that have done it at the top level. The ones that do end up in England are at mid to low level premiership teams at best and more often than not in the lower tiers of English football.

As Flecky says, look at the vast majority of our professional players, they have poor first touches and cannot pass with reliable accuracy. I'd add into the mix that most lack top level fitness and that is truly unforgivable. Fitness is the least we should expect from professional atheletes.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Another thing that has to be taken into consideration regarding the youth set up for any team is the lack of facilities at grass root levels throughout the whole country especially at schools, not just on what one club can do.

[MrSifter 181]

Another thing that has to be taken into consideration regarding the youth set up for any team is the lack of facilities at grass root levels throughout the whole country especially at schools, not just on what one club can do.

Spot on. Although not a fan of state intervention I'd make football part of the curriculum from primary school and I'd ban gravel pitches.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Another thing that has to be taken into consideration regarding the youth set up for any team is the lack of facilities at grass root levels throughout the whole country especially at schools, not just on what one club can do.

Spot on. Although not a fan of state intervention I'd make football part of the curriculum from primary school and I'd ban gravel pitches.

Definitely ban gravel pitches, but I will take your football and raise to more emphasis being placed on sports in general.

[jcb 1,167]

Ok, if you can find a country similar to Scotland (in terms of population, climate, development) that has a significant amount more technically sound players than we do, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong

And that's us come full circle. As i originally replied this attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

Population undoubtedly gives us a smaller pool to fish in but attitudes towards youth development and attitudes towards being a truly professional athelete (and the sacrifices this entails) need to change or we will never get any better.

I don't believe we should just accept the status quo. My old Chairman had a motto for the company, "there is always a better way". This mentality has taken his organisation from a three person company in the 1970s to an organisation with a £1.2 billion income employing about 900 today.

Instead of bemoaning "population, climate, development" (not sure what defines development!?!?) we should be looking at a better way. Where better to start than emulating the countries known for consistently producing the best players?

are croatia and holland, maybe serbia not small countries too? they seem to develop outstanding talents

even the smaller south american countries, they can all play football, basics come naturally to them unlike the scots who cant even do the basics on a pitch

The Netherlands have almost four times as many people as we do. Croatia, smaller population, but better climate and less developed, so it's easier for youngsters to play football in the street. Serbia have twice as many people as we do, and have a similar climate to Croatia.

fuck me, the girls have been busy in holland, i didnt know their population was upto 20million! thats news to me

cheers

Population of The Netherlands is 16.6 million compared to our 5.2 million yet they have produced some of the Worlds greatest players,defeat countries with far bigger populations and regularly reach the latter stages of World Cups & Euro Championships while we have failed to qualify for either and produce players who lack even the basic skills.What is it going to take for us to change!!.

[MrSifter 181]

Definitely ban gravel pitches, but I will take your football and raise to more emphasis being placed on sports in general.

I agree with you and I'm all for kids playing more sports. I'd like to see all kids participating in a sport after the regular school day four days per week. Say from 3.30 - 4.30. This should also be targeted to a couple of specific sports like football, athletics and hockey as practice makes perfect.

They could sample all other sports in their normal PT module during the day.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Definitely ban gravel pitches, but I will take your football and raise to more emphasis being placed on sports in general.

I agree with you and I'm all for kids playing more sports. I'd like to see all kids participating in a sport after the regular school day four days per week. Say from 3.30 - 4.30. This should also be targeted to a couple of specific sports like football, athletics and hockey as practice makes perfect.

They could sample all other sports in their normal PT module during the day.

Fully agree with what you say.

[flecky1 4]

Ok, if you can find a country similar to Scotland (in terms of population, climate, development) that has a significant amount more technically sound players than we do, then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong

And that's us come full circle. As i originally replied this attitude is why we will never improve. A sad acceptance of Scotland producing technically deficient players and a "we're daein no' too bad" view.

Population undoubtedly gives us a smaller pool to fish in but attitudes towards youth development and attitudes towards being a truly professional athelete (and the sacrifices this entails) need to change or we will never get any better.

I don't believe we should just accept the status quo. My old Chairman had a motto for the company, "there is always a better way". This mentality has taken his organisation from a three person company in the 1970s to an organisation with a £1.2 billion income employing about 900 today.

Instead of bemoaning "population, climate, development" (not sure what defines development!?!?) we should be looking at a better way. Where better to start than emulating the countries known for consistently producing the best players?

are croatia and holland, maybe serbia not small countries too? they seem to develop outstanding talents

even the smaller south american countries, they can all play football, basics come naturally to them unlike the scots who cant even do the basics on a pitch

The Netherlands have almost four times as many people as we do. Croatia, smaller population, but better climate and less developed, so it's easier for youngsters to play football in the street. Serbia have twice as many people as we do, and have a similar climate to Croatia.

fuck me, the girls have been busy in holland, i didnt know their population was upto 20million! thats news to me

cheers

Population of The Netherlands is 16.6 million compared to our 5.2 million yet they have produced some of the Worlds greatest players,defeat countries with far bigger populations and regularly reach the latter stages of World Cups & Euro Championships while we have failed to qualify for either and produce players who lack even the basic skills.What is it going to take for us to change!!.

Fuck now your asking!

Change in kids attitudes

Change in coaches mentalities

Change in facilities availible

Bring back schools football

Kids generally playing more football

They are so spoiled nowadays they just expect things to happen for them instead going out and trying hard to succeed.

[wearethemighty 186]

The problem with the coaching in this country is that they always look for players that are the biggest/strongest and work more on that aspect than say the technical side of things this wont be changing anytime soon as the mismanagement of resources and the jobs for boys syndrome that they (SFA SFL etc) all have makes it impossible for there to be any legislation for real change. TThe same thing happens at Rangers, theres some real talented players in our youth squads, if said same players were at any smaller clubs they'd get a chance to flourish whereas here they seem to go backwards. Players like Shinnie who played in the Hong Kong tournament and was praised by other coaches. is now 20 has hardly even been near the first team picture, surely he should be given a role in the team? Instead what will happen is he'd be let go for free or little money and go on to prove hes a talented player much like Adam has once he'd gone and no doubt Steven Smith will aswell.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

The problem with the coaching in this country is that they always look for players that are the biggest/strongest and work more on that aspect than say the technical side of things this wont be changing anytime soon as the mismanagement of resources and the jobs for boys syndrome that they (SFA SFL etc) all have makes it impossible for there to be any legislation for real change. TThe same thing happens at Rangers, theres some real talented players in our youth squads, if said same players were at any smaller clubs they'd get a chance to flourish whereas here they seem to go backwards. Players like Shinnie who played in the Hong Kong tournament and was praised by other coaches. is now 20 has hardly even been near the first team picture, surely he should be given a role in the team? Instead what will happen is he'd be let go for free or little money and go on to prove hes a talented player much like Adam has once he'd gone and no doubt Steven Smith will aswell.

Shinnie, Adam and Smith are 3 very bad examples, Shinnie was actually injured for a period of time which prevented him from playing, Adam not making it at us is partially his own fault as his attitude stunk at times, and Smith was really unlucky with the previous injuries he had, he moved on because he wanted more chance of first team football which he won't get with us as I doubt he would be able to displace Papac.