Gregor Stevens Fan Club 42 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I wouldn't buy a football club if i couldn't afford to run one.....Even if it only cost you a £1Even if you could borrow against 4 years future income and don't declare to anyone where that money has went to.Even if you could sell its assets (which you got for a £1) for £5.5MEven if could draw a possible sizable wage from it.Even if you could walk away from it all, only losing your original £1 investment - leaving everyone up shit-creek, with the blame being put on the previous owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It should be noted that anything i said was not from a position of supporting old Board members either individually or as a group, Im merely pointing out the irony of the people getting shot down for asking questions.The headline figures tell us nothing. Deeper questions need to be asked and need to be answered. And very quickly at that. Would it be possible, as the VB have access to Mr Whyte, that you would consider puting a joined effort to him from a few trusted and financially savvy contributors on this site with the hope of providing some clarity for the fans. You didnt need to point that out, I realise this The headline figures tell us something. My assumption, is that everything is fluid at the moment, pending the results and impllcations of the tax case, until then, we have no solid figure to work with. Its also why there probably isnt a lot of clarity at the moment, as, a lot hinges on the outcome, and, which plan we need to look at.I have no issue doing that at all mate, drop me a line, and, can look to draw something up offline? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Even if it only cost you a £1Even if you could borrow against 4 years future income and don't declare to anyone where that money has went to.Even if you could sell its assets (which you got for a £1) for £5.5MEven if could draw a possible sizable wage from it.Even if you could walk away from it all, only losing your original £1 investment - leaving everyone up shit-creek, with the blame being put on the previous owner.Are you really this stupid? Or are you being ridiculous on purpose? little answers for you1 - conveniently forgetting the £18 million paid to Lloyds, never mind2 - haha, you mean, didnt declare to ex members of staff who set it up in the first place?3 - so, you think Jelavic was our only asset?4 - aaah, a "possible", thats a good one5 - AND the £18 million from point 1, and costs already incurred, and.... are you now saying Murray DIDNT create the current financial status the club is in?? There is definately a name for people like you Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza010 393 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 "people shouldnt buy football clubs if they cant afford to buy players for the team!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRITNEY IS NOT FEELING IT 8,293 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So what exactly has happened to us being a Club that is deemed to be debt free after Mr Whyte's takeover ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemdale1873 167 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 A quote used not only by Whyte but Bain before him that if you miss out on CL revenue the costs associated with running Rangers FC means an average annual loss of around £10M.Now either costs have to come down or income streams increase.Given that the scope for increasing revenue is limited thanks to the JJB deal and fixed TV income then the logical conclusion is you must cut costs.The only way a company can cut costs dramatically and quickly is in staff wages.Take away all the shite and misinformation surrounding Whyte.Ask yourself this question....what would you do if this was your business and your annual operating costs resulted in a £10m loss each year?If we only had a £10m black hole then why borrow £24m from ticketus?, and where is the other £14m as well as the £5.5m from Jela and £2.0m from Bougherra.Also if we have a £10m shortfall this season then its going to be a lot worse in the years to come as a large slice of our s.t. money is now spent for the next 4 years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You didnt need to point that out, I realise this The headline figures tell us something. My assumption, is that everything is fluid at the moment, pending the results and impllcations of the tax case, until then, we have no solid figure to work with. Its also why there probably isnt a lot of clarity at the moment, as, a lot hinges on the outcome, and, which plan we need to look at.I have no issue doing that at all mate, drop me a line, and, can look to draw something up offline?Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram 1,919 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 If we only had a £10m black hole then why borrow £24m from ticketus?, and where is the other £14m as well as the £5.5m from Jela and £2.0m from Bougherra.Also if we have a £10m shortfall this season then its going to be a lot worse in the years to come as a large slice of our s.t. money is now spent for the next 4 years.The £10m shortfall is on a normal business year if the current financial practices remain.I'll ask you some questions in return as i am not Craig Whyte.What happens to the club if the tax case goes against us?Do we know how much (if anything) we will be asked to pay?We also had to fund the increase in wages to key players so is it not feasible that the Bougherra money went to cover this?As for the ticket money only Whyte can answer that.My initial post was to highlight the operating costs of Rangers FC as opposed to our income streams in a normal year without CL football. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It won't be that now considering the fee we got for jela and the wages we have saved all together , prob touching 50k a week Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If we only had a £10m black hole then why borrow £24m from ticketus?, and where is the other £14m as well as the £5.5m from Jela and £2.0m from Bougherra.Also if we have a £10m shortfall this season then its going to be a lot worse in the years to come as a large slice of our s.t. money is now spent for the next 4 years.Firstly, to create what is called working capital, without which we die. Simple as that. Negative cashlow kills companies, of any size, and, whether they make profit or not. Secondly, theres a little tax case happening, my assumption would be, We have an amount set aside, just in case, or, perhaps for negotiation purposes to reach a mutual agreement with HMRC? removing that problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Meaning that ultimately Rangers go out of business without a Sugar Daddy to bankroll them???No it means what it says.IF I COULDN'T AFFORD TO BUY AND RUN A FOOTBALL CLUB I WOULDN'T BUY ONE...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Stevens Fan Club 42 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Are you really this stupid? Or are you being ridiculous on purpose? little answers for you1 - conveniently forgetting the £18 million paid to Lloyds, never mindIf you believe Whyte paid the debt with his own money, then more fool you - but say for instance he did - then he has managed to purchase a brand name, with all its assets (stadium, Training facilities, Players, etc.) for £18M + £1. A great deal for him.2 - haha, you mean, didnt declare to ex members of staff who set it up in the first place?I t is common place for many clubs to be paid in advance from next season's ST money to ensure cash flow is in place - NOT 4 Season's ST money FFS.And if he has done this - WHY, if the debt to Lloyds has been cleared ??? 3 - so, you think Jelavic was our only asset?Of course I don't ??4 - aaah, a "possible", thats a good oneIf full financial accounts had been published then we would be able to find out about Directors' renumeration.5 - AND the £18 million from point 1, and costs already incurred, and.... are you now saying Murray DIDNT create the current financial status the club is in?? If it all goes tits up, will he be a preffered creditor, where his investment would be ring-fenced ?? - with regards to Murray, disregarding the Tax Case as you stated current financial status, he sold the club with all of its assets (and £18M debt) for £1 - That's cheap to me. But leaving us with the Tax Case heading over us is a complete shambles by Murray, of course it is.There is definately a name for people like youCome on, no need for that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Even if it only cost you a £1Even if you could borrow against 4 years future income and don't declare to anyone where that money has went to.Even if you could sell its assets (which you got for a £1) for £5.5MEven if could draw a possible sizable wage from it.Even if you could walk away from it all, only losing your original £1 investment - leaving everyone up shit-creek, with the blame being put on the previous owner.Yes....but i care about Rangers..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Stevens Fan Club 42 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Not really when you know that a few months later you will be reducing your costs dramatically as we have just done plus brought in £5m from the sale of Jelavic.WeirOrtizFleckBendiksenJelavicThose 5 alone have either left the club or gone out on loan to other clubs where you would suspect they will be covering the bulk if not all of their wages.I would estimate the wages alone would be in the region of around £60k per week or £3m per annum.What we then have to do is compare that with the increase offered to Whittaker, Davis and McGregor to see if the overall costs have reduced, stayed the same or increased.I would say that with the Jelavic fee included the operating costs will have reduced.Again you are contradicting your opening post - are you now saying that by conducting the business above, then there will not be a £10M shortfall ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemdale1873 167 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What happens to the club if the tax case goes against us?I think the real question everyone should be asking now is what was CW's real motivation for buying Rangers knowing we could face a large tax bill in the first place?The guy's not got the money to pay it so why buy the club unless he has ulterior motives. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Cheers Maybe you can do what the authorities have been trying to do for years...good luck to you Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram 1,919 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes....but i care about Rangers.....Cheap and petty...how qualified are you to detemine that Whyte doesn't.Have you met him and asked him? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmalade1872 40 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 do you think he would sell for £2 that would be 100 per cent profit in less than a year Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Stevens Fan Club 42 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 do you think he would sell for £2 that would be 100 per cent profit in less than a year :lol: Are you thinking of buying the club off him ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmalade1872 40 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 :lol: Are you thinking of buying the club off him ??av olny got a pound Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram 1,919 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Again you are contradicting your opening post - are you now saying that by conducting the business above, then there will not be a £10M shortfall ???Obtuse i think is the word i am looking for.Whyte could have cut all the operating costs with immediate effect when he took over could he have not?He didn't because to protect his investment and the value of his assets he had to increase their nett worth. This could only have been done by extending or improving their contracts. My view is that it was a short term issue that has now been addressed in the January window by letting 9 players leave the club either permanently or on loan.It is in year 2 onwards (after the tax case has been settled) that proper long term fiscal plans can be introduced and rigidly adhered to if he wants the club to be self sustaining. Even then though i think it will take the sale of one key player each season to keep us viable and competetive.There is no contradiction though to my basic point that if we cost £45m to run and only generate £35m then the present business model is flawed and has to change in the long term. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemdale1873 167 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 do you think he would sell for £2 that would be 100 per cent profit in less than a yearNo but he paid £1 for the club and could walk away with £18m in his back pocket.We owe Wavetower his company £18m and i've yet to see any proof that any of the money paid to Lloyds came from him. If the Daily rebel are printing lies about him then why not sue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Cheap and petty...how qualified are you to detemine that Whyte doesn't.Have you met him and asked him?I haven't looked him in the eyes as of yet....hopefully soon....I don't need to though.Cheap and petty shots at a club chairman...this is what you are complaining about Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackem09 2 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Quite simply, Rangers either need to find new revenue streams or start to slash the wage bill. Going forward, the club need to invest more in the youth set up and produce quality players which can be sold for big profit if needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian 4,281 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 No but he paid £1 for the club and could walk away with £18m in his back pocket.We owe Wavetower his company £18m and i've yet to see any proof that any of the money paid to Lloyds came from him. If the Daily rebel are printing lies about him then why not sue?If the money didn't come from him, then, unless the lender was insane, they would have taken a security on the loan, hence Whyte would walk away with feck all.That seems to keep getting overlooked for some reason. Wonder why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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