HMRC Interest and Penalties

[minstral 5,375]

WTFYOA??

I didnt say I had loads of accounts. said Id been on here a lot. said i have many guises, none of which is AOYFB. enuf?

You have never changed still the same abusive Ricardo.

[bluegecko 306]

TOTKO

enuff for me

I didn't call you anything

Noticed you dodged my questions, so again,

why so many accounts and where you banned?

[Mor3los_1 3,672]

WTFYOA??

I didnt say I had loads of accounts. said Id been on here a lot. said i have many guises, none of which is AOYFB. enuf?

Retard alert, if you have many guises on the forums it means you have many accounts. Which part of your feeble little brain doesn't understand that?

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

I didn't call you anything

Noticed you dodged my questions, so again,

why so many accounts and where you banned?

I said suggested - you t'ic?

wtf about banned? banned where?

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

Retard alert, if you have many guises on the forums it means you have many accounts. Which part of your feeble little brain doesn't understand that?

Fuck yourself you little cunt. Fucking fans forum and you start making allegations like this. Never said I had many accounts on THIS fucking site. Said I'd been on HERE for years you dipshit little prick.

[minstral 5,375]

Fuck yourself you little cunt. Fucking fans forum and you start making allegations like this. Never said I had many accounts on THIS fucking site. Said I'd been on HERE for years you dipshit little prick.

There you go Ricardo you just can not help yourself with your abuse, you should seek some medical help.

[bluegecko 306]

I said suggested - you t'ic?

wtf about banned? banned where?

you said you had been on here in the past in many guises but only had 9 posts with this name.

So for the last time why not use one of your other accounts or have you been banned?

Don't bother replying if your gonna dodge the question again, I've got better things to do with my life than

chase a fucking idiot round in circles

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

There you go Ricardo you just can not help yourself with your abuse, you should seek some medical help.

i dont know why you feel the need to involve yourself - but why just not bother?

you seem to think you know me- you dont. so stop messaging me.

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

you said you had been on here in the past in many guises but only had 9 posts with this name.

So for the last time why not use one of your other accounts or have you been banned?

Don't bother replying if your gonna dodge the question again, I've got better things to do with my life than

chase a fucking idiot round in circles

Not that its AOYFB - i've been on here years ago (c;2006/9) = in those years ive had many email add's and pass's - and user-fucking names for that matter (none of which I can ever remember).

that answer your nosey arsed questions you pain in the arse?

[minstral 5,375]

i dont know why you feel the need to involve yourself - but why just not bother?

you seem to think you know me- you dont. so stop messaging me.

Your problem is that i do know you.

[bluegecko 306]

Not that its AOYFB - i've been on here years ago (c;2006/9) = in those years ive had many email add's and pass's - and user-fucking names for that matter (none of which I can ever remember).

that answer your nosey arsed questions you pain in the arse?

such a lovley guy nite nite.

[minstral 5,375]

such a lovley guy nite nite.

Do not bother with him mate as he is a wanker.

[bluegecko 306]

Do not bother with him mate as he is a wanker.

not fussed either way dude,

entertaining end to what started out a really shit day.

Hopefully more good news tomorrow

[Chineseboy 1,563]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, however I am new to this forum and feel that this is an issue that needs to be aired for those that are not perhaps aware of the ridiculous pressures being brought to bear on our club by HMRC.

I highlight these, as a small business owner myself, who has also come under pressure from the HMRC for falling behind in VAT and PAYE. I have come out the other side (after I, like almost everyone else, got royally fucked by the banks and government in 2008) and I've paid my dues. I'm not asking for judgement or looking for any kind of commentary, praise, criticism etc. I just want everyone to be aware of the ridiculous scenario that is being protrayed by HMRC and the HMRC LOYAL media with regards to RFC's Tax case - which I believe scares every Rangers fan to their core because of the ridiculous sums of money that are being bandied about as being owed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17302801

Apparently the "small tax case" has gone from £2.5m in recent weeks to £4m to £9m to £15 Million - as reported today by the BBC.

Where do these people get their figures from?

A couple of years ago (or thereabouts) RFC owed about £20 (some) million in Taxes (PAYE and VAT - who knows!?) How accurate this figure was I have no idea.

Here's what I do know and here's what has never bee reported...

If you default your VAT (dont pay VAT when it's due) by 3 months - the HMRC charge you 5% on that sum.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

If you default on your NEXT VAT as well - the HMRC charge you 10% on both sums owed.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

If you default AGAIN on your NEXT VAT AS WELL - the HMRC charge you 15% on ALL sums owed.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

Not including the interest chargeable, lets have a look at how this stacks up...

Lets say RFC started out by defaulting on VAT alone on their March 2009 Return on a £10M bill (purely hypothetical to get my point across)

By the time June return comes round, RFC owes £10.5M - £0.5 MILLION MORE

Take to the next stage and lets assume FOR SIMPLICITY that ALL VAT IS PAID ON TIME FROM HEREON.

When September return comes round, RFC owes £10.5M FOR jUNE'S RETURN plus £1.05M - £11.55 MILLION now

Fast forward to December's - 15% rate kicks in - amount owed jumps to £13.05M

In the space of Nine Months - HER MAJESTY'S Government demands a 30% PLUS return on amounts not paid - and thats NOT including FUCKING INTEREST!

Lets recap:

1 default: 5%

2 defaults: 10%

3 defaults: 15%

4 or more defaults: 15% thereafter

Guys - this is just a nine month period I'm talking about here. After the 15% rate kicks in, every Quarter thereafter is calculated at 15% which means that £10M costs £1.5M ALONE to service to the Government every bloody quarter!

Think about it.

A company in this kind of position...

After 2 years ALONE of this nonsense of non-paid VAT for one quarter of £10M, the company would end up oweing HMRC nearly DOUBLE at £19.05m

PLUS INTEREST!!!!!!!!!

And that's just one quarter of difficulty - which Her Majesty's Government (Revenue & Customs) insists you get fucked over for.

Look at those figures and tell me the Sheriff of Nottingham is not alive and well and trying to take our club up the ass.

I don't know Craig Whyte and I think his PR is awful. But I know HMRC all too well and they are useless cunts who don't know what they are doing and they make a rich living out of (you and me) doing it.

be careful who you direct your anger at is all I ask: -

HER MAJESTY'S REVENUE & CUSTOMS (Trust me, the irony stings like a bitch) or...

Craig Whyte / SDM - who prior to the 2008 Banking FUCKUP were HUGELY successful and wealthy Businessmen

Lloyds TSB - their withdrawal of banking support in terms of overdrafts etc (which came at HUGE COST whilst they offered it) and ultimately resulted in RFC using HMRC as their short term 'Banking alternative'.

The whole thing stinks like a cesspit. You decide where your allegiances should lie. If you still bank with Lloyds / HBOS after this, shame on you. If (after reading the 5%, 10%, 15% incremental quarterly increases above) you decide you should still pay your taxes, well good for you.

Me? Where's Robin fucking Hood when you need him?

Good post , mate, with many interesting points. Ignore the bully boys on here who call everyone and their granny a Tim. You usually find these guys are the ones with many many posts and that, somehow, that makes them better Rangers fans, well,actually, no it doesn't, rather, it just means they don't have the balls to say things face to face. You will get to see the usual suspects. I myself had to prove to admin i wasn't a Tim when i joined, simply because the "real fans" didn't agree with my suggestions. WATP

[BRICKY1872 118]

Not that its AOYFB - i've been on here years ago (c;2006/9) = in those years ive had many email add's and pass's - and user-fucking names for that matter (none of which I can ever remember).

that answer your nosey arsed questions you pain in the arse?

You my friend are trying way too hard. Why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favour and go fuck yourself?

[minstral 5,375]

Good post , mate, with many interesting points. Ignore the bully boys on here who call everyone and their granny a Tim. You usually find these guys are the ones with many many posts and that, somehow, that makes them better Rangers fans, well,actually, no it doesn't, rather, it just means they don't have the balls to say things face to face. You will get to see the usual suspects. I myself had to prove to admin i wasn't a Tim when i joined, simply because the "real fans" didn't agree with my suggestions. WATP

You do not know him, and he has been banned that many time on this board. He is abusive to fellow bears, but you stick up for him as that is up to you.

[Thermopylae 15,288]

I suppose I'm broadly in favour of the tax man having swingeing powers because it's just the governments way making sure it doesn't run out of money.

The problem of course is that as with anything power can be abused and I think we have been made a bit of a fall guy because we don't have the financial resources of a Vodaphone

[Chineseboy 1,563]

You do not know him, and he has been banned that many time on this board. He is abusive to fellow bears, but you stick up for him as that is up to you.

Fair point, mate;however, i am mainly having a pop at the many people on this forum who do constantly abuse other bears. As for the guys OP, then all he did was make a good post, yet HE was the one who started getting abuse for no reason at all. If his post was initially abusive then he would have deserved the abuse, but it wasn't. He stood up for himself, so i can't blame him for that.

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

I suppose I'm broadly in favour of the tax man having swingeing powers because it's just the governments way making sure it doesn't run out of money.

The problem of course is that as with anything power can be abused and I think we have been made a bit of a fall guy because we don't have the financial resources of a Vodaphone

Its a fair point mate, but the difference is that any other Creditor would never let the debt get to the stage that HMRC did and with their arbitrary penalty system they end up behaving and looking no better than a loan shark. And a pretty fucking careless one at that.

£75M FFS! The debt should never have been allowed to be quoted as such - it's just frankly ridiculous and HMRC will end up looking like fools for allowing these figures to be bandied about whenever this gets to court. I for one can't wait for that day to come.

[jonbryce 63]

1331249531' post='1059849859']

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, however I am new to this forum and feel that this is an issue that needs to be aired for those that are not perhaps aware of the ridiculous pressures being brought to bear on our club by HMRC.

I highlight these, as a small business owner myself, who has also come under pressure from the HMRC for falling behind in VAT and PAYE. I have come out the other side (after I, like almost everyone else, got royally fucked by the banks and government in 2008) and I've paid my dues. I'm not asking for judgement or looking for any kind of commentary, praise, criticism etc. I just want everyone to be aware of the ridiculous scenario that is being protrayed by HMRC and the HMRC LOYAL media with regards to RFC's Tax case - which I believe scares every Rangers fan to their core because of the ridiculous sums of money that are being bandied about as being owed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/17302801

Apparently the "small tax case" has gone from £2.5m in recent weeks to £4m to £9m to £15 Million - as reported today by the BBC.

Where do these people get their figures from?

A couple of years ago (or thereabouts) RFC owed about £20 (some) million in Taxes (PAYE and VAT - who knows!?) How accurate this figure was I have no idea.

Here's what I do know and here's what has never bee reported...

If you default your VAT (dont pay VAT when it's due) by 3 months - the HMRC charge you 5% on that sum.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

If you default on your NEXT VAT as well - the HMRC charge you 10% on both sums owed.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

If you default AGAIN on your NEXT VAT AS WELL - the HMRC charge you 15% on ALL sums owed.

PLUS INTEREST until it's paid.

Not including the interest chargeable, lets have a look at how this stacks up...

Lets say RFC started out by defaulting on VAT alone on their March 2009 Return on a £10M bill (purely hypothetical to get my point across)

By the time June return comes round, RFC owes £10.5M - £0.5 MILLION MORE

Take to the next stage and lets assume FOR SIMPLICITY that ALL VAT IS PAID ON TIME FROM HEREON.

When September return comes round, RFC owes £10.5M FOR jUNE'S RETURN plus £1.05M - £11.55 MILLION now

Fast forward to December's - 15% rate kicks in - amount owed jumps to £13.05M

In the space of Nine Months - HER MAJESTY'S Government demands a 30% PLUS return on amounts not paid - and thats NOT including FUCKING INTEREST!

Lets recap:

1 default: 5%

2 defaults: 10%

3 defaults: 15%

4 or more defaults: 15% thereafter

Guys - this is just a nine month period I'm talking about here. After the 15% rate kicks in, every Quarter thereafter is calculated at 15% which means that £10M costs £1.5M ALONE to service to the Government every bloody quarter!

Think about it.

A company in this kind of position...

After 2 years ALONE of this nonsense of non-paid VAT for one quarter of £10M, the company would end up oweing HMRC nearly DOUBLE at £19.05m

PLUS INTEREST!!!!!!!!!

And that's just one quarter of difficulty - which Her Majesty's Government (Revenue & Customs) insists you get fucked over for.

Look at those figures and tell me the Sheriff of Nottingham is not alive and well and trying to take our club up the ass.

I don't know Craig Whyte and I think his PR is awful. But I know HMRC all too well and they are useless cunts who don't know what they are doing and they make a rich living out of (you and me) doing it.

be careful who you direct your anger at is all I ask: -

HER MAJESTY'S REVENUE & CUSTOMS (Trust me, the irony stings like a bitch) or...

Craig Whyte / SDM - who prior to the 2008 Banking FUCKUP were HUGELY successful and wealthy Businessmen

Lloyds TSB - their withdrawal of banking support in terms of overdrafts etc (which came at HUGE COST whilst they offered it) and ultimately resulted in RFC using HMRC as their short term 'Banking alternative'.

The whole thing stinks like a cesspit. You decide where your allegiances should lie. If you still bank with Lloyds / HBOS after this, shame on you. If (after reading the 5%, 10%, 15% incremental quarterly increases above) you decide you should still pay your taxes, well good for you.

Me? Where's Robin fucking Hood when you need him?

The default charge is levied if you don't file the return. If you file the return but don't pay, you get interest but not the default charge. Also, the penalty is charged on the amount due in the late return, not any interest or on any previous liabilities, and is only charged once per return. Still a lot of money, but not quite as bad as your calculations.

[*ricardopatrese* 0]

Fair point, mate;however, i am mainly having a pop at the many people on this forum who do constantly abuse other bears. As for the guys OP, then all he did was make a good post, yet HE was the one who started getting abuse for no reason at all. If his post was initially abusive then he would have deserved the abuse, but it wasn't. He stood up for himself, so i can't blame him for that.

I appreciate your support CB - you will find that I have never been abusive to anyone who has not dished it out first. The old 'he started it' argument. But it seems some are happy to dish it out but can't take it when it comes back to them. I don't know what Minstral's beef is. Maybe he's on his period.

[Mikhailichenko 90]

What a croc of shit. If you don't pay your taxes you get penalised. If there were no penalties everyone and their granny would be at it and that includes CB's secret jakey lover that he keeps hidden in a phone box.

[Guardian 4,281]

Jolly Good.

Threads like this reek of panic and fear.

Timmy has seen the HMRC deal in the media and has to come on and try to scotch it.

A sure sign the fear is running down their legs.

I'm glad we're seeing threads like this now. They're on the back foot again.

Classically they underestimate the mighty Rangers every time. That's why they always live in our shadow.

And that's a tall shadow.

[bluepeter 5,627]

...however I am new to this forum...

I suppose it's a compliment to RM that you can ban someone over and over again but they still keep coming back...

[Mikhailichenko 90]

I suppose it's a compliment to RM that you can ban someone over and over again but they still keep coming back...

Aww, the fun was just about to begin