Craig Whyte and Brian Kennedy in talks re shares

[simplythebest 11,453]

why the think he's unnecessarily ruining us.

Then they're deluded.

Their rescue plan was not good enough, going in a huff because they failed convinces me even less about them being 'true Rangers men'.

[gunslinger 270]

Then they're deluded.

Their rescue plan was not good enough, going in a huff because they failed convinces me even less about them being 'true Rangers men'.

what makes you say they are in the huff?

[HHB 63]

Then they're deluded.

Their rescue plan was not good enough, going in a huff because they failed convinces me even less about them being 'true Rangers men'.

Maybe. But Miller is non-exclusive which means that, if they can come up with a better bid, they could still win out.

The interesting aspect is that it is Kennedy who is getting involved in this. I suspect that his entrepreneurial background is more suited than Paul Murray's corporate one.

[simplythebest 11,453]

what makes you say they are in the huff?

Well, you're the one saying they'd never consider helping Miller, even though he's the man currently trying to save the club.

[simplythebest 11,453]

Maybe. But Miller is non-exclusive which means that, if they can come up with a better bid, they could still win out.

The interesting aspect is that it is Kennedy who is getting involved in this. I suspect that his entrepreneurial background is more suited than Paul Murray's corporate one.

If they were good enough to over take Miller they'd have managed it after all this time.

[gunslinger 270]

Well, you're the one saying they'd never consider helping Miller, even though he's the man currently trying to save the club.

its just a stupid notion though. do you pay half the mortgage on a house you didn't get after bidding for.

no of course not. doesn't make you bitter just normal.

[gunslinger 270]

Maybe. But Miller is non-exclusive which means that, if they can come up with a better bid, they could still win out.

The interesting aspect is that it is Kennedy who is getting involved in this. I suspect that his entrepreneurial background is more suited than Paul Murray's corporate one.

plus he's not been leeking storys about whyte to the daily record for a year

[simplythebest 11,453]

its just a stupid notion though. do you pay half the mortgage on a house you didn't get after bidding for.

no of course not. doesn't make you bitter just normal.

I'd have thought saving Rangers meant much more than a house.

I don't know if anything they could do would help out, i'm just saying if there was an opportunity you'd like to think these 'true Rangers men' would do it.

[gunslinger 270]

I'd have thought saving Rangers meant much more than a house.

I don't know if anything they could do would help out, i'm just saying if there was an opportunity you'd like to think these 'true Rangers men' would do it.

well some people insist that's what miller is doing. clearly he doesn't need any help.

[Cadman 352]

here's a conspiracy theory for you :

TBK are really only after the shares (they have always stated they need them from CW have they not) which, in total, are 92,842,233 and manage a 10p in the pound CVA (going by their original £5 million quid bid) . Suppose they pay (and they may have to after all) Whyte even what he's looking for to get Ticketus off his case - say £30 million - they would be aquiring those shares for like 30p each. So they then have a share issue at £1 per share with a £1000 minimum spend and, somehow, manage to sell 65,000,000 meaning they have banked 60 million quid between them AND got there original £5 mill back. They then sell the controlling stake in the club (almost 30 million shares) to a Bill Miller or a Bill Ng for a knockdown £15 - £20 million pound price and sail off into the sunset having more than doubled their original investment - without actually really doing anything.

All of this just pure conjecture but it has made me wonder why the shares are so important to TBK when Miller has said he can still go ahead an do a deal without them (or at least they are not such a priority) and also why TBK are / were not willing to match Millers tabled bid - in case the share issue didn't or doesn't go quite to plan leaving them a wee bit out of pocket.

I also admit i could be well wide of the mark (i'm just going to get my flak jacket and tin hat )

[gunslinger 270]

here's a conspiracy theory for you :

TBK are really only after the shares (they have always stated they need them from CW have they not) which, in total, are 92,842,233 and manage a 10p in the pound CVA (going by their original £5 million quid bid) . Suppose they pay (and they may have to after all) Whyte even what he's looking for to get Ticketus off his case - say £30 million - they would be aquiring those shares for like 30p each. So they then have a share issue at £1 per share with a £1000 minimum spend and, somehow, manage to sell 65,000,000 meaning they have banked 60 million quid between them AND got there original £5 mill back. They then sell the controlling stake in the club (almost 30 million shares) to a Bill Miller or a Bill Ng for a knockdown £15 - £20 million pound price and sail off into the sunset having more than doubled their original investment - without actually really doing anything.

All of this just pure conjecture but it has made me wonder why the shares are so important to TBK when Miller has said he can still go ahead an do a deal without them (or at least they are not such a priority) and also why TBK are / were not willing to match Millers tabled bid - in case the share issue didn't or doesn't go quite to plan leaving them a wee bit out of pocket.

I also admit i could be well wide of the mark (i'm just going to get my flak jacket and tin hat )

wrong on so many levels.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

I think TBK should definitely add all of their money to the Bill Miller bid... guess that'll take it up to £11.25m? Or is £50k too big a stretch?

[gunslinger 270]

the shares are so important so we don't need to newco and avoid the sanctions it brings.

[gunslinger 270]

the shares are so important so we don't need to newco and avoid the sanctions it brings.

[RWM1216 20]

So reading between the lines, more specifically Gunslinget's linrs, is this a possible scenario (a bit JK Rowling-esque):

1. D&P have agreed a CVA in principle with major creditors prior to announcing preferred bidder

2. TBK'S are unofficially preferred but cannot be accepted due to share ownership issue

3. Ticketus are dropped from TBK'S bid in order to call Whytes bluff ie they will pursue him rather than accept CVA

4. This hasn't worked therefore D&P name Bill Miller as PB knowing that his route will leave Whyte without a pot to piss in but the offer is deliberately non-exclusive to leave back door open

5. Kennedy approaches Whyte and offers him a deal to purchase shares for an nominal sum which he accepts

6. TBK'S submit new bid which surpasses Miller's and the CVA is accepted - they pay the £500k which gives them exclusivity

7. Rangers continues in present form with single year European ban, reduced transfer embargo after successful appeal and negotiate small Tax Tribunal Settlement paid over 5 years

8. The next quidditch world cup is held at Ibrox........

[1873bear 192]

After David Murray and Whyte, I don't do 'faith'.

I'm with you a bit on that myself to be honest I'm very cautious of the next owner, TBK were kidding themselves on..Basically guys in the VIP lounges of Ibrox full of bravado but no real cash, Maybe more cash than me & you but doesn't make them more of a bear or best interest of the club at heart.....BM has put his money where his mouth is whether he is working on behalf of others or not he is the only option at this time....One thing we all know this has proved we have no mega rich bears amoungst of massive support & our high profile fans have been forced to remain underground because they are fukking cowards scared to admit they are bears because of InTIMidation....Sometime soon hopefully certain people will be proud to be presytarian & Rangers supporters but the damage has been done so fukk them........I know for a fact we will be back bigger than ever after all this.

[gunslinger 270]

So reading between the lines, more specifically Gunslinget's linrs, is this a possible scenario (a bit JK Rowling-esque):

1. D&P have agreed a CVA in principle with major creditors prior to announcing preferred bidder

2. TBK'S are unofficially preferred but cannot be accepted due to share ownership issue

3. Ticketus are dropped from TBK'S bid in order to call Whytes bluff ie they will pursue him rather than accept CVA

4. This hasn't worked therefore D&P name Bill Miller as PB knowing that his route will leave Whyte without a pot to piss in but the offer is deliberately non-exclusive to leave back door open

5. Kennedy approaches Whyte and offers him a deal to purchase shares for an nominal sum which he accepts

6. TBK'S submit new bid which surpasses Miller's and the CVA is accepted - they pay the £500k which gives them exclusivity

7. Rangers continues in present form with single year European ban, reduced transfer embargo after successful appeal and negotiate small Tax Tribunal Settlement paid over 5 years

8. The next quidditch world cup is held at Ibrox........

your taking it to far but its about right none the less.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

your taking it to far but its about right none the less.

You mean they might finally put in a good, transparent bid that can actually win? (obviously Bill Miller is just about to unravel any day now)

[gunslinger 270]

You mean they might finally put in a good, transparent bid that can actually win? (obviously Bill Miller is just about to unravel any day now)

who knows what might happen.

[RWM1216 20]

your taking it to far but its about right none the less.

Sorry - shouldn't have added the last bit.....

You have no idea how long that post took to write on my iPhone!!!

[gunslinger 270]

Sorry - shouldn't have added the last bit.....

You have no idea how long that post took to write on my iPhone!!!

[Alwaysblue 709]

I'm with you a bit on that myself to be honest I'm very cautious of the next owner, TBK were kidding themselves on..Basically guys in the VIP lounges of Ibrox full of bravado but no real cash, Maybe more cash than me & you but doesn't make them more of a bear or best interest of the club at heart.....BM has put his money where his mouth is whether he is working on behalf of others or not he is the only option at this time....One thing we all know this has proved we have no mega rich bears amoungst of massive support & our high profile fans have been forced to remain underground because they are fukking cowards scared to admit they are bears because of InTIMidation....Sometime soon hopefully certain people will be proud to be presytarian & Rangers supporters but the damage has been done so fukk them........I know for a fact we will be back bigger than ever after all this.

Lets assume you are a very rich bear. You have a bank account that holds £m20. Would you give money to the creditors? There are a lot of wealthy Rangers men out there - who do you think was going to buy the shares from TBK? - they were, which would have given us cash going forward so why give money to HMRC and Ticketus?

[gunslinger 270]

getting into a bidding war doesn't help rangers.

if a deal can be done that doesn't require a newco and the associated penalties I think most will agree that's the way to go.

[Sobatai 70]

Well, it's hard to see anything coming from this anyway. Kennedy isn't talking about the "floating charge" Whtye holds over the club and that is the basis of the Ticketus deal. If that's not on the table then Whyte isn't secure from Ticketus. Why would Whyte sell his shares for a pittance while still leaving himself open to being chased by Ticketus?

[HHB 63]

Lets assume you are a very rich bear. You have a bank account that holds £m20. Would you give money to the creditors? There are a lot of wealthy Rangers men out there - who do you think was going to buy the shares from TBK? - they were, which would have given us cash going forward so why give money to HMRC and Ticketus?

I agree .... even 'not so rich but comfortable' Bears are probably keeping their powder dry.

I'm on record that I am willing to put a five figure sum into a share issue. But, having seen an £8,000 investment destroyed by Murray and Whyte, that money is only available in the context of a broad based ownership model with proper corporate governance. I would not invest in a Bill Miller share issue if he kept 50% or more of the shares.