Proposal For A Membership Scheme

[Kai_Johansen 978]

Ah that's clear

You are proposing an ownership scheme as opposed to a membership scheme as mooted by Frankie elsewhere

You can see why I was confused

I proposing a membership scheme, which has the power to purchase a controlling interest in our club!

Frankie's proposing a membership scheme that offers trinkets and discounts, and a fans board with no real power!

Hope that clears any confusion.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

I proposing a membership scheme, which has the power to purchase a controlling interest in our club!

Frankie's proposing a membership scheme that offers trinkets and discounts, and a fans board with no real power!

Hope that clears any confusion.

Most certainly does.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I proposing a membership scheme, which has the power to purchase a controlling interest in our club!

Frankie's proposing a membership scheme that offers trinkets and discounts, and a fans board with no real power!

Hope that clears any confusion.

It would be useful to potential members of your membership scheme if you were to outline plans of how you could fund the club year on year

Would you encourage institutional investors?

[Frankie 505]

I proposing a membership scheme, which has the power to purchase a controlling interest in our club!

Frankie's proposing a membership scheme that offers trinkets and discounts, and a fans board with no real power!

Hope that clears any confusion.

Not at all. Sure, initially I'd be comfortable with a more simple (but worthwhile) scheme but in the longer term I'd like to see it grow into something more substantive.

Clearly, as swally suggests, there are valid difficulties with that so that would give us enough time to explore potential solutions. No-one is saying it would simple but are we to be reliant on others for ever?

Is there anyone who'd prefer the status quo?

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Not at all. Sure, initially I'd be comfortable with a more simple (but worthwhile) scheme but in the longer term I'd like to see it grow into something more substantive.

Clearly, as swally suggests, there are valid difficulties with that so that would give us enough time to explore potential solutions. No-one is saying it would simple but are we to be reliant on others for ever?

Is there anyone who'd prefer the status quo?

You have cleared up everything now

[Kai_Johansen 978]

I am a member of a membership scheme in fact two schemes........my season book (although I pay for them rarely use them) and in the share scheme, no not that one , the one that you buy the shares in your own name and get the share to do with as you wish re your vote, now that brings me back to the membership scheme..........surely if all the fans think the same way then when a sherholders vote takes place and it's something the fans agree on they will each vote that way.

Like you I also have a (family) season ticket, and own shares in our club.

As for the voting issue, yes that's correct. However, whoever holds the majority shareholding has the power to control what direction the club takes, that includes not only directors remuneration packages, but how debt and assets are controlled.

A membership to purchase scheme would be no different from any other investor membership scheme, one member, one vote, how that would be administered would be laid down in articles of association, and agreed on by the members.

The essence of the scheme is that no one individual, or group could control the scheme, and once purchased all shareholding can be placed in trust for the benefit of the club, with continued membership monies used to fund whatever the membership deems fit

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

Like you I also have a (family) season ticket, and own shares in our club.

As for the voting issue, yes that's correct. However, whoever holds the majority shareholding has the power to control what direction the club takes, that includes not only directors remuneration packages, but how debt and assets are controlled.

A membership to purchase scheme would be no different from any other investor membership scheme, one member, one vote, how that would be administered would be laid down in articles of association, and agreed on by the members.

The essence of the scheme is that no one individual, or group could control the scheme, and once purchased all shareholding can be placed in trust for the benefit of the club, with continued membership monies used to fund whatever the membership deems fit

As I mentioned earlier, I read the the European Union had started looking into Real and Barca and the legitimacy of their membership schemes.

This would make the rst redundant so straight away they would be up in arms about that.

[TheFarmer 260]

Membership scheme won't work unless the membership has a controlling stake in the club like the continental versions.

Liverpool & Man United have membership schemes, but they are useless without a owning the club, all you get is ticket priority a membership card and some discounted merchandise.

[Kai_Johansen 978]

It would be useful to potential members of your membership scheme if you were to outline plans of how you could fund the club year on year

Would you encourage institutional investors?

Swally its not my membership scheme, its a fans membership scheme

The membership scheme would be for the sole purpose of buying a controlling interest in our club, then providing additional funding.

Once the purchase of the controlling interest has been achieved, any additional monies would be used at the discretion of the membership for the benefit of the club.

As for the funding of the club, that would remain as present, from current commercial activity, remember that if you own the controlling majority shareholding, you control the revenue streams also!

Would the scheme be attractive to institutional investors, why not, if the scheme has a membership of thousands why would any commercial enterprise walk away from a database of potential customers

Lets be clear, you or I as fans would not be sitting in the boardroom as directors, but we would have the power as the collective majority shareholders to employ and dismiss any director who deviates from our goal of a healthy and vibrant club, both on and off the field

I consider myself no more than a dog soldier in the fight to save our club, I belong to no supporters group, nor do I favour any of the current protagonist fighting to gain control of our club for their own financial gain

[govansw1 326]

As I mentioned earlier, I read the the European Union had started looking into Real and Barca and the legitimacy of their membership schemes.

This would make the rst redundant so straight away they would be up in arms about that.

The EU also wanted straight bananas.

[Edmiston Drive 3,846]

The EU also wanted straight bananas.

And they got them.

[Kai_Johansen 978]

As I mentioned earlier, I read the the European Union had started looking into Real and Barca and the legitimacy of their membership schemes.

This would make the rst redundant so straight away they would be up in arms about that.

The EU may well be investigating Real and Barca, however not all fan memberships are similar to those mentioned. I believe both schemes have major debt issues.

As for the RST, why would they have any input, it would be a completely new institution with its own articles of association, of course if any individual RST member wished to contribute by way of membership fees, why not!

As for the RST being up in arms, having achieved nothing in ten plus years, I think we would have nothing to fear!

[dan_ger 1,454]

Every day on this forum and elsewhere people bemoan the lack of supporter interaction with the club. They complain the Trust is useless, they ask if the Assembly is suitable and the Association are hardly even mentioned due to their lack of profile.

As it stands, the supporters are split (to a degree) and lack cohesion as a group. Ergo, at some point we have to ask ourselves if we really want positive change or prefer just to offer up excuses about anything and everything. A membership scheme offers us the chance for improvement and if everyone gets involved, then a sound, open and accountable concept could be delivered.

Or we could moan about one or two people and other irrelevancies and keep the status quo? Do people really want that? Seriously?

Not sure if these questions are directed at me specifically or to all in general.

I'm all for fan representation of a kind that is part of the club. It has to have buy in from all involved. I'm not sure how this would be integrated with the current business model used in the UK. That is why I favour a simple system of fans being able to invest in the parts of the club that they wish to see developed. For me that would be youth development funds. Other may wish to invest in something else.

Anything more complex means having some sort of democratic process, there will always require to be a leader as there are too many views to represent, which is of course dangerous if done without some sort of well thought out structure. Turnaround times for how long people can stay in a leadership role would have to be considered. I suppose voting via the internet makes these sort of systems easier to implement.

[Frankie 505]

Not sure if these questions are directed at me specifically or to all in general.

I'm all for fan representation of a kind that is part of the club. It has to have buy in from all involved. I'm not sure how this would be integrated with the current business model used in the UK. That is why I favour a simple system of fans being able to invest in the parts of the club that they wish to see developed. For me that would be youth development funds. Other may wish to invest in something else.

Anything more complex means having some sort of democratic process, there will always require to be a leader as there are too many views to represent, which is of course dangerous if done without some sort of well thought out structure. Turnaround times for how long people can stay in a leadership role would have to be considered. I suppose voting via the internet makes these sort of systems easier to implement.

Sorry it was a general moan, not directed at you...

As said elsewhere, we can cherry pick the best parts of existing schemes and put them to good use in ours. As for leadership roles, that process of election and accountability would be vital to the credibility of the scheme which is why we need to learn from historic mistakes in that regard.

[Kai_Johansen 978]

Not sure if these questions are directed at me specifically or to all in general.

I'm all for fan representation of a kind that is part of the club. It has to have buy in from all involved. I'm not sure how this would be integrated with the current business model used in the UK. That is why I favour a simple system of fans being able to invest in the parts of the club that they wish to see developed. For me that would be youth development funds. Other may wish to invest in something else.

Anything more complex means having some sort of democratic process, there will always require to be a leader as there are too many views to represent, which is of course dangerous if done without some sort of well thought out structure. Turnaround times for how long people can stay in a leadership role would have to be considered. I suppose voting via the internet makes these sort of systems easier to implement.

Doesn't need to be complex, nor does it require a leader, one membership with one vote.

The sole purpose of the scheme would be to purchase a controlling interest in the club, which could be very easily handled by an accountant and a set of articles of association. How and when additional monies would be spent, would be voted on by the members, again one membership, one vote!

What I and other like minded people are proposing is no different from how Mr McColl or Green would control our club, the only difference is that a membership scheme would run it for the benefit of our club and support, they however would run it for personal financial gain

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I am a member of a membership scheme in fact two schemes........my season book (although I pay for them rarely use them) and in the share scheme, no not that one , the one that you buy the shares in your own name and get the share to do with as you wish re your vote, now that brings me back to the membership scheme..........surely if all the fans think the same way then when a sherholders vote takes place and it's something the fans agree on they will each vote that way.

Oh FFS - when did you start posting sense!

Agreed: Anyone can join the shares 'club' by buying - a wee online broker and a few quid - there is no minimum (but the broker will likely have one) and then you have a vote.

The membership scheme is all about putting new money into the club every season - and I (like ED) do that via a Season Ticket - those that don't have season tickets can buy TV subscriptions, merchandise etc.

We need to learn to use the collective power of our shareholdings - that should be the issue to focus on - and if we use our shareholdings any one who disagrees can still vote for or against a proposal (or even not vote - apathy loyal)

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Swally its not my membership scheme, its a fans membership scheme

The membership scheme would be for the sole purpose of buying a controlling interest in our club, then providing additional funding.

Once the purchase of the controlling interest has been achieved, any additional monies would be used at the discretion of the membership for the benefit of the club.

As for the funding of the club, that would remain as present, from current commercial activity, remember that if you own the controlling majority shareholding, you control the revenue streams also!

Would the scheme be attractive to institutional investors, why not, if the scheme has a membership of thousands why would any commercial enterprise walk away from a database of potential customers

Lets be clear, you or I as fans would not be sitting in the boardroom as directors, but we would have the power as the collective majority shareholders to employ and dismiss any director who deviates from our goal of a healthy and vibrant club, both on and off the field

I consider myself no more than a dog soldier in the fight to save our club, I belong to no supporters group, nor do I favour any of the current protagonist fighting to gain control of our club for their own financial gain

The fans can buy a controlling interest of the club NOW - and its cheap just now - we don't NEED a collective to do so - we need the will to do so - just go buy shares - and use the vote - no need for an intermediatery!

[The Educator 1,572]

How do you convince them to either sell you their shares; the same way as any other share sale, offer them the current offer market value! What if they just won't sell at the price you offer?

Do you run the scheme and save up and buy shares? Yes, its no different from any other group investor scheme, you have the money, you buy the shares So How many years do you project that it would take to get the 51%?

How do you finance new signings during the transfer windows? The same way the club finances signing now, from revenue raised by commercial activity! Would a fans board have the expertise to be successful at this, or du you suggest that you will be able to pay market values for the people who do?

The flaw in all of this is that Rangers are a massive club; many would see that as a positive, and what sponsor would walk away from a database of thousands, willing to spend money!

This is not about RST or any other fans group, its about finding a solution to the current crisis currently engulfing our club. If you know of a better or easier solution then lets hear it! Why bring up the RST? The only solution is that fans buy whatever shares they can and hope one day that a member of the board will be their representative. Our support is so fractured that that won't happen. How many years do you think folk would stick with a scheme that was taking possibly ten years or so to get near the end goal?

[Kai_Johansen 978]

Oh FFS - when did you start posting sense!

Agreed: Anyone can join the shares 'club' by buying - a wee online broker and a few quid - there is no minimum (but the broker will likely have one) and then you have a vote.

The membership scheme is all about putting new money into the club every season - and I (like ED) do that via a Season Ticket - those that don't have season tickets can buy TV subscriptions, merchandise etc.

We need to learn to use the collective power of our shareholdings - that should be the issue to focus on - and if we use our shareholdings any one who disagrees can still vote for or against a proposal (or even not vote - apathy loyal)

A membership scheme is all about putting new money into the club every season, and learning to use the collective power of our shareholdings!

Excellent points, care to expand!

[brazz1972 397]

Chelsea and Arsenal have membership schemes. Think Chelsea is £25/£30 for the season. Don't know all the benefits but it gives you first shout on tickets when they go to general sale. This wouldn't really benefit us though as its not hard to get tickets for Ibrox. I do reckon its a good idea though. Obviously needs a bit of thought into it and a plan put together and I reckon most bears would buy into it.

[Kai_Johansen 978]

The fans can buy a controlling interest of the club NOW - and its cheap just now - we don't NEED a collective to do so - we need the will to do so - just go buy shares - and use the vote - no need for an intermediatery!

All good point, fans can buy shares now, and cheaply, nor is a collective required to do so, and without the services of an intermediary.

However, what's the chance of a group of disparate individuals coming together and buying sufficient shares or voting in a unified way to effect significant change

Far better to be organised into a unified voice, and one way to achieve that is by implementing a membership scheme, what form that scheme ultimately takes is surely open for discussion!

Far better to discuss, than to dismiss out of hand that it wont work!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

A membership scheme is all about putting new money into the club every season, and learning to use the collective power of our shareholdings!

Excellent points, care to expand!

Season ticket money puts new money into the club every season! An Rtv subscription puts new money into the club every season. A 'share' gives you a vote to use at your own discretion. A 'membership' sche just adds a layer of beauraucracy as far as I can see.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

All good point, fans can buy shares now, and cheaply, nor is a collective required to do so, and without the services of an intermediary.

However, what's the chance of a group of disparate individuals coming together and buying sufficient shares or voting in a unified way to effect significant change

Far better to be organised into a unified voice, and one way to achieve that is by implementing a membership scheme, what form that scheme ultimately takes is surely open for discussion!

Far better to discuss, than to dismiss out of hand that it wont work!

I think you point you miss is about how the membership scheme collective would be managed - look at the RST trust in fighting ( or sniping or whatever) at least if I own my share in the club I use it as I want. I just don't see the need but I do agree there has to be a better mechanism for the fans to use thir collective voice.

[Kai_Johansen 978]

As a PLC shares are offered not by the buyer, but the seller, shares are always on offer, available!

How many years would it take to purchase a controlling interest; don't know, however once shares were purchased, the shareholding influence would grow!

What fans board, as I said, the majority shareholding would appoint a board, unlikely to be a fan, more likely to be individuals with experience of running a major PLC, depends what you consider market value!

I never brought the RST into anything, if you read my post you will clearly see that I said its not about the RST in answer to a previous question!

Yes you can purchase shares as an individual and hope that some time in the distant future change you support comes along, just don't bank on it!

[Kai_Johansen 978]

I think you point you miss is about how the membership scheme collective would be managed - look at the RST trust in fighting ( or sniping or whatever) at least if I own my share in the club I use it as I want. I just don't see the need but I do agree there has to be a better mechanism for the fans to use thir collective voice.

At present there is no mechanism for a fans collective shareholder scheme, therefore there is no collective fans shareholder group, which means that individual shareholders (of which I'm one) have no collective voice!

Would I contribute to a monthly fan membership scheme to purchase shares, yes I would, would I place my current shares in to a collective fan membership scheme yes I would.

My personal stance is that a fan membership scheme with share purchasing powers would most certainly be a good thing for the fans, and our club, it would give a collective voice to the many individual Rangers fans who currently feel disenfranchised and marginalised.

Rangers shares are bought and sold on a daily basis, with an active fan membership scheme, our club could and would ultimately belong to us the fans, what's not to like!

Anywho time to go and do work I actually get paid for!