Accounts have been decided before publication - £16.7 million,from ££.

[Creampuff 22,628]

Look at the time AC FF its getting late.

No excuses .

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

A bonus by way of shares doesn't take money out of the club. A CEO bonus should certainly be linked to running the business well - 2 different things.

Running the company at a huge loss takes money out of the company though.

It also makes it much harder to get trust in the market for future investment.

Didn't Green also take a huge bonus for fulfilling the promise of getting us out the SFL? Is that a sign of him running the business well?

[bawsburst 1,381]

Malcolm Murray was the chairman while the things mentioned in the OP happened. We have been told often by the McCollco minions how strong on corporate governance MM was. So I assume they will agree these transactions must have been in order if Malcolm Murray approved them. No?

Indubitably so Boss indubitably so.

[woodvale1690 43]

thats about as clear as mud

so were in the black by £££££££££££££££ 26m

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

if PM gets control of us he will take out more money than he has put in, Even the biggest PM lovers cant hide this fact

But I thought this was okay?

We didn't mind Green doing it?

[KingKirk 25,779]

Through changing how the business is run.

Years ago Apple had to get Steve Jobs back to get them successful. He didn't do this by investing money, he did it by changing processes and making the company profitable in its operation.

How can he do that from were we are atm, what will he do differently? Nothing at the moment that's why he isn't telling us his plans because he will just follow the current boards plans until were back in prem. I cant see how we could make a profit at this time at this level, for me its impossible to do.

[boss 1,941]

See if we are to ignore the revaluation of the assets, do we also get to ignore the fact we were in SFL3? Or that we had virtually no corporate and sponsorship income? Or are we just to ignore some things and include others? Accounts can often say anything you want them to.

[Carson's cat 744]

if PM gets control of us he will take out more money than he has put in, Even the biggest PM lovers cant hide this fact

Why? He didn't take any money out the last time he was a director. Besides, in order to 'get control' he would have to buy 51% of the shares. He doesn't want control. He just wants to help manage the club properly.

[KingKirk 25,779]

But I thought this was okay?

We didn't mind Green doing it?

Green had made us money the only payoff he got was when he recently left.. Green had paid up and put that money into the club he doesn't then take that out the IPO when he sells up that's between buyer n seller. The money he put in is ours regardless.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

Running the company at a huge loss takes money out of the company though.

It also makes it much harder to get trust in the market for future investment.

Didn't Green also take a huge bonus for fulfilling the promise of getting us out the SFL? Is that a sign of him running the business well?

Do you want to try and stick to at least two points at a time.

The year 1 set up was going to be a huge loss, deal with it. Football debts were paid, capital outlays were made, a new squad was bought, and in some cases top league salaries were paid, commercial deals had been ripped up and season ticket prices had to drop. That will have no impact on long-term investment, the future plan is what matters.

As I already said, CEO bonuses should be based on running the company well , I have no idea why you think I will defend Green's every decision.

My point (which was answering your original one) is that he had to put in these hard yards to set us up from scratch as a company and raise £20m+ in an IPO, while leading the consortium who reached us from oblivion. Murray didn't do that, and therefore the right to run the club now that someone else has done the hardest part needs to be earned.

I have no idea why you think Murray is a person who can bring any sort of expertise around running this club, I believe he only wants to be an NED anyway?

[woodvale1690 43]

Through changing how the business is run.

Years ago Apple had to get Steve Jobs back to get them successful. He didn't do this by investing money, he did it by changing processes and making the company profitable in its operation.

back in the day it was a 2 horse race, apple v microsoft and we know who won that race, but there are hundreds of football clubs with many different business models, the board have set out to make us profitable

[bawsburst 1,381]

See if we are to ignore the revaluation of the assets, do we also get to ignore the fact we were in SFL3? Or that we had virtually no corporate and sponsorship income? Or are we just to ignore some things and include others? Accounts can often say anything you want them to.

I don't think the usual suspects have appreciated your input.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

How can he do that from were we are atm, what will he do differently? Nothing at the moment that's why he isn't telling us his plans because he will just follow the current boards plans until were back in prem. I cant see how we could make a profit at this time at this level, for me its impossible to do.

It is probably impossible to make an operating profit, but you have to minimise your loss.

Wage bill is far too high IMO, should be reduced if possible. Director bonuses should be suspended until the company is profitable. Trim costs wherever possible. Unpopular one now, sell Wallace.

Do what is needed to stretch every penny.

We won't be profitable till we are at the top, but we need to generate as small an operating loss as possible.

[woodvale1690 43]

Why? He didn't take any money out the last time he was a director. Besides, in order to 'get control' he would have to buy 51% of the shares. He doesn't want control. He just wants to help manage the club properly.

pm was never a director?, non-exec do you know the diffrence

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

See if we are to ignore the revaluation of the assets, do we also get to ignore the fact we were in SFL3? Or that we had virtually no corporate and sponsorship income? Or are we just to ignore some things and include others? Accounts can often say anything you want them to.

No of course not.

We can't expect the club to run at an operating profit just now. We won't till we are back in the spl IMO.

The board should be measured accordingly.

The board however cannot be praised for bringing in £20m profit on the goodwill adjustment that required absolutely no skill on. It was purely a consequence of the takeover.

[woodvale1690 43]

Do you want to try and stick to at least two points at a time.

The year 1 set up was going to be a huge loss, deal with it. Football debts were paid, capital outlays were made, a new squad was bought, and in some cases top league salaries were paid, commercial deals had been ripped up and season ticket prices had to drop. That will have no impact on long-term investment, the future plan is what matters.

As I already said, CEO bonuses should be based on running the company well , I have no idea why you think I will defend Green's every decision.

My point (which was answering your original one) is that he had to put in these hard yards to set us up from scratch as a company and raise £20m+ in an IPO, while leading the consortium who reached us from oblivion. Murray didn't do that, and therefore the right to run the club now that someone else has done the hardest part needs to be earned.

I have no idea why you think Murray is a person who can bring any sort of expertise around running this club, I believe he only wants to be an NED anyway?

he can't he's a follower of the detractors

[boss 1,941]

I don't think the usual suspects have appreciated your input.

They seem to be ignoring me. Perhaps I'm telling the truth rather than being 'on message'?

[legalbeagle 3,734]

They seem to be ignoring me. Perhaps I'm telling the truth rather than being 'on message'?

The truth is just the stuff I use when I've run out of bullshit arguments, and that's the way it will stay! Don't go spoiling everyone's fun with the truth!

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Green had made us money the only payoff he got was when he recently left.. Green had paid up and put that money into the club he doesn't then take that out the IPO when he sells up that's between buyer n seller. The money he put in is ours regardless.

Firstly, the club pays back the original funding for the club. Green didn't put money in here, more like loaned it.

Secondly, he got paid a 100% bonus for achieving the goal of getting us out the SFL. Bit shit don't you agree?

The only money he put in we're for hugely discounted shares which he punted at huge profit. Didn't net us very much, certainly not enough to make up for his bonus.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

Firstly, the club pays back the original funding for the club. Green didn't put money in here, more like loaned it.

Secondly, he got paid a 100% bonus for achieving the goal of getting us out the SFL. Bit shit don't you agree?

The only money he put in we're for hugely discounted shares which he punted at huge profit. Didn't net us very much, certainly not enough to make up for his bonus.

Netted us £20m+. If you are so obsessed with all the IPO money being gone you clearly accept it came in. And so what? He has gone, what is your point?

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Do you want to try and stick to at least two points at a time.

The year 1 set up was going to be a huge loss, deal with it. Football debts were paid, capital outlays were made, a new squad was bought, and in some cases top league salaries were paid, commercial deals had been ripped up and season ticket prices had to drop. That will have no impact on long-term investment, the future plan is what matters.

As I already said, CEO bonuses should be based on running the company well , I have no idea why you think I will defend Green's every decision.

My point (which was answering your original one) is that he had to put in these hard yards to set us up from scratch as a company and raise £20m+ in an IPO, while leading the consortium who reached us from oblivion. Murray didn't do that, and therefore the right to run the club now that someone else has done the hardest part needs to be earned.

I have no idea why you think Murray is a person who can bring any sort of expertise around running this club, I believe he only wants to be an NED anyway?

Firstly, I have always said that the club will operate at a loss for the first year, probably 3.

I was one of the few who hated the idea of being put in the 3rd division rather than the 1st as I didn't think it was affordable.

I feel one of the major issues of the current board is overspending in the playing squad. We didn't need all those players to win an amateur league.

I'm not saying you are defending Greens every move, but the stance many are showing is hypocritical. There seems to be a vie that Murray is in it to 'take' from the club and that this is a crime. Yet we all, including myself didn't mind Green coming out and saying this was his intention.

They also didn't do a new business start up. This is a continuing economic entity. Many new companies report losses in the first years due to one off costs and also having to establish a client base. We had one off costs, but we have a huge existing client base.

As far as I see the goings on at takeover, Green got his money on the table first and got exclusivity. Given time, I think Murray might have also produced a bid which would have satisfied the admins. If green has set this up to make a short term killing, rather than secure the future of the club, it is no surprise he got his money up and secured the deal. He would have no concerns with future spending to keep the club ticking over.

Finally, I don't think Murray is the guy to take us forward. He has not told me his plans, I can't support him. If he does this in the future, I might support him.

I will point out where I think people are being hypocritical though. I think people are letting emotion and bitterness cloud the views on Murray.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Netted us £20m+. If you are so obsessed with all the IPO money being gone you clearly accept it came in. And so what? He has gone, what is your point?

He could have netted us £10000000bn, if it has been squandered it doesn't mean shit.

My point is that folk bang on about Murray not paying to take over and that he might take from the club.

This is exactly what happened with Green. People should stop being so hypocritical.

I don't know if Murray is good or bad, I don't know if the board are running us well. We don't have enough information to make definitive statements.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

Firstly, I have always said that the club will operate at a loss for the first year, probably 3.

I was one of the few who hated the idea of being put in the 3rd division rather than the 1st as I didn't think it was affordable.

I feel one of the major issues of the current board is overspending in the playing squad. We didn't need all those players to win an amateur league.

I'm not saying you are defending Greens every move, but the stance many are showing is hypocritical. There seems to be a vie that Murray is in it to 'take' from the club and that this is a crime. Yet we all, including myself didn't mind Green coming out and saying this was his intention.

They also didn't do a new business start up. This is a continuing economic entity. Many new companies report losses in the first years due to one off costs and also having to establish a client base. We had one off costs, but we have a huge existing client base.

As far as I see the goings on at takeover, Green got his money on the table first and got exclusivity. Given time, I think Murray might have also produced a bid which would have satisfied the admins. If green has set this up to make a short term killing, rather than secure the future of the club, it is no surprise he got his money up and secured the deal. He would have no concerns with future spending to keep the club ticking over.

Finally, I don't think Murray is the guy to take us forward. He has not told me his plans, I can't support him. If he does this in the future, I might support him.

I will point out where I think people are being hypocritical though. I think people are letting emotion and bitterness cloud the views on Murray.

Murray let down a lot of people last summer with his big talk and small bids, he let us all down the season before with his stupid bid against Whyte and he has been at the front of a group who have destabilised the club badly over the last few months. So yes, I do have a problem with him.

I disagree with your accusation of hypocrisy, I don't see that you can compare the two situations to draw that parallel.

[bawsburst 1,381]

They seem to be ignoring me. Perhaps I'm telling the truth rather than being 'on message'?

The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.

[Zappa 358]

Let's hear the REAL truth from Green (don't laugh please!), Ahmad, Stockbridge and the others involved in this whole scam.