Monkey Man 91 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I've got your number and no deary me. You certainly have a number!Number 2s emanating incessantly from your gob.Incurable verbal diarrhea.Oh deary you indeed. Now piss off and put a new nappy on your face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 There is irrefutable proof that Charlie saved The Rangers, the proof will be on show tomorrow night. You really are not the smartest are you?Rangers playing tomorrow night means that Rangers did not die. It does not mean that Green saved Rangers.Let me give you an example of how fucking moronic your statement actually is:-When I was a kid, a doctor gave me a MMR vaccine. Right now I am alive. Does this prove that that Doctor saved my life?Surely we would have to consider the possibility that I may have survived to this day without the doctor giving me the MMR vaccine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 But there was a bid on the table, a bid from Green.Just because Smith didnt have a bid in did not mean that the CVA vote would not take place.Dont forget that the bid from Green was somewhere in the region of £8m for the CVA I believe. Smith might not have had £8m to rival this bid, so why put a lesser bid in knowing it was irrelevant?Smith might have only had £5.5m, which was enough to put in a reasonable bid on the business and assets.So, D&P should have said "Look Charles, we want your deposit, we want you to incur costs to put a bid in but if the CVA fails, we are going to start looking again for somebody else"Come on. Think about it.Greens bid was unconditional of the CVA. Thats the way it should have been. It was 100% right that a deal was struck CVA or no CVA in favour of the ONLY party willing to put their heads above the parapet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 That bid was well below what Charles Green's consortium had put up though. At the time of the bid from Walter's group all the hard work had been done to secure the new holding company and the clubs assets, and, out of administration. It was more like 11m.Like all the others involved, except Charles Green's team, they did not want to be the ones held up for ridicule, as being the peopleresponsible for putting the previous holding company (Murray) into the liquidation process. Once all the dirty work had been done,and only then, did they feel it now safe to approach the situation, and make a make a bid, safe in the knowledge, that they were not to be blamed for the situation that Rangers now found themselves in.No amount of deviation of historic facts will change the story, that, but for The Charles Green Consortium, and the Rangers support,we would not have a Club to support.A Club, that also, despite all the monies that have been taken out by employees/shareholders, is still in receipt of all it's assets, and is also debt free, and beholding to no financial institution. For that we can thank The Charles Green Consortium and the support.No amount of bickering, whitaboutery, or point scoring is going to see that money returned. It must, at some point, sink in to all concerned, that, the money, however it was distributed, went to consolidate the future of the club.A new Board has been elected, and they will be well aware of the justified anger of the support, and hopefully they will set about rectifying the wrongs of the past, hopefully.If not, we duly make our voices heard, loud and clear, and let them know about it. The bit in bold I dont agree with.At the end of the day, it doesnt matter if Green spend £11m or £111m before the sale of the assets was complete.As long as there was an alternative bid on the table to a relative value (which there was), then the club was not going to be liquidated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson's cat 744 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The point is there was one credible offer, everyone else was offering too little, pulled out or came in too late. We needed a buyer to survive, hence why he saved us. Speculation that someone else would have just come in doesn't change what the situation was, we didn't have bidders falling over each other to get us.We're going round in circles here. Do you not accept that if there had been a fresh bidding process for the assets of the oldco after HMRC had rejected the CVA, there would have been other interested parties, including Smith & McColl? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 You really are not the smartest are you?Rangers playing tomorrow night means that Rangers did not die. It does not mean that Green saved Rangers.Let me give you an example of how fucking moronic your statement actually is:-When I was a kid, a doctor gave me a MMR vaccine. Right now I am alive. Does this prove that that Doctor saved my life?Surely we would have to consider the possibility that I may have survived to this day without the doctor giving me the MMR vaccine?To be fair, and you know my disagreements and thoughts on Bawsburst, but that is a bad example.A better example is that when you were younger, you got bitten by a poisonous snake. The poison was so strong that you needed an antidote within 24 hours. Dr Green gave you it and saved your life. If Dr Green hadnt given you it, then its possible you might have found another Doctor but its also possible you wouldnt have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMccoist 204 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Around 18 months later, who would have thought they would all be gone in the summer of 2012. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 We're going round in circles here. Do you not accept that if there had been a fresh bidding process for the assets of the oldco after HMRC had rejected the CVA, there would have been other interested parties, including Smith & McColl?Charles Green would not have put the bid in for the CVA if this was the case though. Which in turn means no Rangers playing in July 2012. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 So, D&P should have said "Look Charles, we want your deposit, we want you to incur costs to put a bid in but if the CVA fails, we are going to start looking again for somebody else"Come on. Think about it.Greens bid was unconditional of the CVA. Thats the way it should have been. It was 100% right that a deal was struck CVA or no CVA in favour of the ONLY party willing to put their heads above the parapet. I have thought about it.If there was no-one offering a CVA (which I think Smiths group would have, even if for a lesser amount), then the next logical step for the admins would have been to look for the alternative best value solution.This would have been a sale of the economic entity.As soon as this option became available, I do believe that we would have seen bids come in, most likely one from Smiths consortium. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 We're going round in circles here. Do you not accept that if there had been a fresh bidding process for the assets of the oldco after HMRC had rejected the CVA, there would have been other interested parties, including Smith & McColl?Interested parties probably, but probably not very credible parties going by history.Although I don't see how we had any time for a fresh bidding process anyway, we had to get our applications sorted so we could actually have a league to play in, we only got our membership to play football 24 hours before the first match. The bidding process had to come to an end and that's what Green's offer was about, whether by CVA or newco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have thought about it.If there was no-one offering a CVA (which I think Smiths group would have, even if for a lesser amount), then the next logical step for the admins would have been to look for the alternative best value solution.This would have been a sale of the economic entity.As soon as this option became available, I do believe that we would have seen bids come in, most likely one from Smiths consortium."believe" "likely" "alternative"We were in administration from 14th February. Many different names came in, looked and walked away. Some come in and made a total dick of themselves with stupid bids conditional on reaching Champions League quarter finals etc. We were only 6 weeks away from the start of the season and no-one wanted to touch us. Green and Co stepped up and saved us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawsburst 1,381 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Good we are all agreed Charlie saved The Rangers, harmony is abroad tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 To be fair, and you know my disagreements and thoughts on Bawsburst, but that is a bad example.A better example is that when you were younger, you got bitten by a poisonous snake. The poison was so strong that you needed an antidote within 24 hours. Dr Green gave you it and saved your life. If Dr Green hadnt given you it, then its possible you might have found another Doctor but its also possible you wouldnt have. What about if there was another doctor standing behind him, with the same antidote willing to give me the injection?Would it be certain that I would have died if the first doctor had not given me the jag, or is there a good possibility that without the first doctor, the second doctor would have fixed me up?My point is that it is not a fact that without Green, Rangers would be no more. IMO there is a very good chance that we would have survived without him.Im not saying we would have been any better off now, and im not saying that Green didnt handle things correctly and better than the others during the takeover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Robot 21,513 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Only CG was in the running as it was only him and his consortium who put up the cash for the exclusivity rights which gave him first come, first served. The only way Walter and the Blue Knights would have got the club would have been if CG pulled out. I believe they did have the cash at that point but CG stuck to his word and the rest is our history. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Interested parties probably, but probably not very credible parties going by history.Although I don't see how we had any time for a fresh bidding process anyway, we had to get our applications sorted so we could actually have a league to play in, we only got our membership to play football 24 hours before the first match. The bidding process had to come to an end and that's what Green's offer was about, whether by CVA or newco.The discussions on the licence didnt really begin until the takeover was complete though.The bid from Smiths group came in about 2 hours after the CVA failed, so I dont think the timescale was really going to be too different.The one thing I will always be greatful to Green for is that he never gave up our titles to get that licence. Ive heard some say that that was more down to McCoist than Green, but im willing to give Green a nod for this regardless. His one truly great act! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Robot 21,513 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 What about if there was another doctor standing behind him, with the same antidote willing to give me the injection?Would it be certain that I would have died if the first doctor had not given me the jag, or is there a good possibility that without the first doctor, the second doctor would have fixed me up?My point is that it is not a fact that without Green, Rangers would be no more. IMO there is a very good chance that we would have survived without him.Im not saying we would have been any better off now, and im not saying that Green didnt handle things correctly and better than the others during the takeover.I actually believe we would be better off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 11,453 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I actually believe we would be better off.How? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 What about if there was another doctor standing behind him, with the same antidote willing to give me the injection?Would it be certain that I would have died if the first doctor had not given me the jag, or is there a good possibility that without the first doctor, the second doctor would have fixed me up?My point is that it is not a fact that without Green, Rangers would be no more. IMO there is a very good chance that we would have survived without him.Im not saying we would have been any better off now, and im not saying that Green didnt handle things correctly and better than the others during the takeover.There was no other Doctor standing behind Doctor Green though. So again, your hypothesis is wrong. You could have refused to accept the antidote and run the risk that another Doctor came forward but by accepting Dr Greens, you guaranteed your life was saved. Lets be honest, Smith and McColl were never going to offer anything pre CVA because they didnt want to be associated with the "death" of the old company if the CVA was rejected. It was the same with The Blue Knights as well. It was a stigma they all wanted to avoid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 "believe" "likely" "alternative"We were in administration from 14th February. Many different names came in, looked and walked away. Some come in and made a total dick of themselves with stupid bids conditional on reaching Champions League quarter finals etc. We were only 6 weeks away from the start of the season and no-one wanted to touch us. Green and Co stepped up and saved us. Sorry Lawman, we are going to have to have our different opinions on this one.Green was the one who ultimately made the purchase, but there is nothing to suggest that had he not, then it was game over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Sorry Lawman, we are going to have to have our different opinions on this one.Green was the one who ultimately made the purchase, but there is nothing to suggest that had he not, then it was game over.There is more to suggest no-one would have came forward with an unconditional bid on a successful CVA than there is to suggest somebody would have stepped in. Only 1 person did in 4 months. What makes you remotely confident we would have got someone else in a quarter of the time ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 There was no other Doctor standing behind Doctor Green though. So again, your hypothesis is wrong. You could have refused to accept the antidote and run the risk that another Doctor came forward but by accepting Dr Greens, you guaranteed your life was saved. Lets be honest, Smith and McColl were never going to offer anything pre CVA because they didnt want to be associated with the "death" of the old company if the CVA was rejected. It was the same with The Blue Knights as well. It was a stigma they all wanted to avoid. There was indeed another doctor and he did have the same medicine.He just didnt have to put in all the hard work in the blood screening and diagnosis, he just gave me the injection and stiffed the other doctor with the bill for the earlier work.We really are kicking the arse out that analogy now!!!!I agree that Smith and co didnt want anything to do with the death of the OldCo, of course there was politics going on there. Doesnt mean they were not willing to jump in as soon as the CVA was off the table though.Who knows, if Green didnt have a CVA proposal, Smiths group could have put in a bid earlier for a Business and Asset transfer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,511 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 There is more to suggest no-one would have came forward with an unconditional bid on a successful CVA than there is to suggest somebody would have stepped in. Only 1 person did in 4 months. What makes you remotely confident we would have got someone else in a quarter of the time ?You yourself have answered it.You stated that Smith party wanted nothing to do with a failed CVA for political reasons, yet somehow through magic had the funds available to make a move matching Green's as soon as the CVA was off the table. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgoalie 637 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Around 18 months later, who would have thought they would all be gone in the summer of 2012.What a fckn conversation that would be......certainly would'nt be any long term plan for the club thats for sure.££££££££. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Robot 21,513 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 How?I believe we would have went down the same road with the IPO but we wouldn't have haemorrhaged money the way we did. I also believe DK would be heavily involved at this point. It's just my opinion and nothing more but we are where we are and I think we have eventually landed on our feet with GW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hume 13,876 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The bit in bold I dont agree with.At the end of the day, it doesnt matter if Green spend £11m or £111m before the sale of the assets was complete.As long as there was an alternative bid on the table to a relative value (which there was), then the club was not going to be liquidated.OK, you have your point of view , so we can agree to disagree, fair enough mate.Your point of view is appreciated as your point of view, but are you honestly sure, that it is factual ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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