Red Hands Red Poppies Red Flags

[.Williamson. 83,837]

Absolutely astonished but not really that a couple of people on here who are sympathetic to the loyalist cause also cringe at seeing Rangers tops worn at parades

Embrace it for fuck sake be proud

I'm not going to take pride in folk that wear Rangers tops to parades so they can drape UVF flags around them and start shite, just to actually support Man Utd or Liverpool the rest of the year.

Obviously if someone is an actual fan of the club I'd have no problem with them wearing our tops wherever they want. Can't get on board with it being used solely to show someone's political/religious stance.

[SkiBunny 441]

I'm not going to take pride in folk that wear Rangers tops to parades so they can drape UVF flags around them and start shite, just to actually support Man Utd or Liverpool the rest of the year.

Obviously if someone is an actual fan of the club I'd have no problem with them wearing our tops wherever they want. Can't get on board with it being used solely to show someone's political/religious stance.

It's not as black and white as that. I mean, what attracted you to supporting Rangers if it wasn't a common kinship with the culture??? I would doubt it's the local coverage of Scottish football as it's practically non-exsistent outside of SKY Tv etc.

I understand the point you are making though with regards people in NI wearing a Rangers top and possibly not being able to name you a full eleven players but I'm struggling to understand what makes you think you're a pure supporter.....what attracted you to shitty Scottish football instead of the premiership??

[.Williamson. 83,837]

It's not as black and white as that. I mean, what attracted you to supporting Rangers if it wasn't a common kinship with the culture??? I would doubt it's the local coverage of Scottish football as it's practically non-exsistent outside of SKY Tv etc.

I understand the point you are making though with regards people in NI wearing a Rangers top and possibly not being able to name you a full eleven players but I'm struggling to understand what makes you think you're a pure supporter.....what attracted you to shitty Scottish football instead of the premiership??

I'd imagine it was the Protestant/Unionist links that brought my family to supporting Rangers, yes. In the beginning that's probably one of the things that attracted me to the club aswell, along with the fact we used to play decent football

I have no problem with anyone that has that as a reason for following us, I love the feeling of belonging that Rangers gives a supporter in this country, despite the fact they live nowhere close to Ibrox. I just can't get on board with people that only follow us for that reason though and have no interest in the football side of things.

[SkiBunny 441]

I'd imagine it was the Protestant/Unionist links that brought my family to supporting Rangers, yes. In the beginning that's probably one of the things that attracted me to the club aswell, along with the fact we used to play decent football

I have no problem with anyone that has that as a reason for following us, I love the feeling of belonging that Rangers gives a supporter in this country, despite the fact they live nowhere close to Ibrox. I just can't get on board with people that only follow us for that reason though and have no interest in the football side of things.

Fair enough mate, I know what you're saying.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

This isn't just an attack on Protestantism and our links with norn iron - it's part of a wider cultural Marxist attack on free speech and belief.

The leftist social democrats that rule this country through snp or labour want a homogenised culture freed of difference. They want us to accept other cultures and creeds but attempt to suppress ours.

The snp teach Scottish nationalism as a required part of the curriculum and the latest reports I wrote for my company for government funding did not allow customers to declare themselves as 'White British' only 'white Scottish' or 'white English'

Essentially we're slowly being moved into a state of fascism, a government that wants one culture and rejects pluralism.

I really don't think there are many "Marxists" left(as in remaining).

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I really don't think there are many "Marxists" left(as in remaining).

Right

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I can understand why you may want to disassociate Rangers from unionist/loyalist culture if you just view it as a negative but what I don't get is how you airbrush parts of the clubs history. Rangers may well have started out as a "Scottish" club but within less than twenty years of its inception it gained a very strong unionist identity which has by and large stayed for over 100 years. You seem to be in complete denial about this fact. I can't figure that out.

You need to learn to read - where did I ignore the linkage - I said it is no longer valid as we move forward - I wish to disassociate all political and religious ties - I think it holds the club back

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

You need to learn to read - where did I ignore the linkage - I said it is no longer valid as we move forward - I wish to disassociate all political and religious ties - I think it holds the club back

Which is at the very heart of your misunderstanding. This is far more than about religion or politics - its about our people. Hence the John Smith quote.

The Mitchell agreement in formally recognising Ulster Scots gave a legitimacy to our people's historical bond - symbolism such as hands across the water and Two Countries Two Covenants One People were given a legal foundation - a foundation which was meant to protect and encourage our culture.

Its not so much you are turning your back on religion or politics - you are turning your back on our people.

[SkiBunny 441]

You need to learn to read - where did I ignore the linkage '

Are you getting cheeky cause you know you've made a cunt of it???

To answer your question, this is where you ignored the linkage:

That is not to say your cause is unjust, I have a lot of sympathy for it, it just has fk all to do with Rangers -

Cheers.

[Blue72 1,179]

I really don't think there are many "Marxists" left(as in remaining).

Cultural Marxism is the use of Marx's dialectic techniques to analyse society and it is what the 'social democrats' use today to berate us. It is this viewpoint that sees a dialectic in all sides of society, only an 'us' and 'them.'

You're either with the widely held PC liberal nonsense or you're a fascist. That is why our support are berated as nazis etx

[tollboy-noey 50]

For God and Ulster, No Surrender.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Which is at the very heart of your misunderstanding. This is far more than about religion or politics - its about our people. Hence the John Smith quote.

The Mitchell agreement in formally recognising Ulster Scots gave a legitimacy to our people's historical bond - symbolism such as hands across the water and Two Countries Two Covenants One People were given a legal foundation - a foundation which was meant to protect and encourage our culture.

Its not so much you are turning your back on religion or politics - you are turning your back on our people.

tour based

I know you deliberately have missed the point - I have a great deal of sympathy for Ulstrr Unionists - as an SNP supporter I have a great belief in self determination.

I also have no love for the IRA as they are just murdering scum (and I did a 3 year tour based in LONDONDerry)- Oh and my wife is a good Loyalist and we both have alligience to the crown. (and for the less socially aware - voting YES is NOT anti royalist)

BUT none of that should have, nor has anything to do with the football team I support or why I support it - and so that my team gets stronger and remains relevant in the furture I favour decoupling of any linkage between Rangers and any poilitical or religious 'movement' - you would prefer a strengthening - so we disagree on that.

[.Williamson. 83,837]

You need to learn to read - where did I ignore the linkage - I said it is no longer valid as we move forward - I wish to disassociate all political and religious ties - I think it holds the club back

We'd lose a lot of our fan base if you took away the Protestant/Unionist links.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

We'd lose a lot of our fan base if you took away the Protestant/Unionist links.

Is the football not enough for them? We dont need them to stop supporting - we need to stop saying you have to be of that way of thinking to support.

[.Williamson. 83,837]

Is the football not enough for them? We dont need them to stop supporting - we need to stop saying you have to be of that way of thinking to support.

I don't necessarily mean the people that already support us. I mean we'd lose out on an awful lot of fans in the future, especially from N.Ireland and Scotland.

Atm our football definitely isn't enough to attract people towards the club and they'll go to the EPL for that. Take the Unionist/Protestant element of our club away and we're just a very bad footballing side.

You may not like it but the Protestant/Unionist side of the club is what initially draws an awful lot of people towards us.

Of course you don't need to be of those beliefs to support us as i'm an Atheist myself and couldn't give a fuck what someone's religious stance is that supports us. Just making the point we'd lose more than we'd gain by cutting it out, especially atm.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I don't necessarily mean the people that already support us. I mean we'd lose out on an awful lot of fans in the future, especially from N.Ireland and Scotland.

Atm our football definitely isn't enough to attract people towards the club and they'll go to the EPL for that. Take the Unionist/Protestant element of our club away and we're just a very bad footballing side.

You may not like it but the Protestant/Unionist side of the club is what initially draws an awful lot of people towards us.

Of course you don't need to be of those beliefs to support us as i'm an Atheist myself and couldn't give a fuck what someone's religious stance is that supports us. Just making the point we'd lose more than we'd gain by cutting it out, especially atm.

Fair points I just disagree with them.

I actually think the strength of our support, the way we havthat has reacted to advere handled ourselves as a support during the last 3 years, has made us an attractive to many new fans - who would not want to be part of a support that has reacted to adversity like we have? And I dont put any religious or political bounds on that. The story of how we (the fans) reacted to all that we have had to put up with, is the lore of the future.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

tour based

I know you deliberately have missed the point - I have a great deal of sympathy for Ulstrr Unionists - as an SNP supporter I have a great belief in self determination.

I also have no love for the IRA as they are just murdering scum (and I did a 3 year tour based in LONDONDerry)- Oh and my wife is a good Loyalist and we both have alligience to the crown. (and for the less socially aware - voting YES is NOT anti royalist)

BUT none of that should have, nor has anything to do with the football team I support or why I support it - and so that my team gets stronger and remains relevant in the furture I favour decoupling of any linkage between Rangers and any poilitical or religious 'movement' - you would prefer a strengthening - so we disagree on that.

Is it easier for you to airbrush history BP9 ?

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Cultural Marxism is the use of Marx's dialectic techniques to analyse society and it is what the 'social democrats' use today to berate us. It is this viewpoint that sees a dialectic in all sides of society, only an 'us' and 'them.'

You're either with the widely held PC liberal nonsense or you're a fascist. That is why our support are berated as nazis etx

You see, that does sound like it means something. but as a strong proponent of Marxist dialectics, both conceptually and in the case of real world historical materialism, I think you're barking up the wrong lamppost.

The mainstream politicians are all "business friendly", largely occupying the centre right with none of them advocating wholesale nationalisation of the means of production.

In terms of the media, it's controlled by big business and ensconced in the commercial marketed world.

More importantly, most of that "PC liberal nonsense" comes from the commercial media and is pandered to by those business backed politicians.

I don't disagree that there is a huge PC element to the stereotyping of our Club and supporters, but the driving force behind it is bitter sectarianism and its accompanying parochial hatred. The PC brigade are happy to follow on with their condemnation and scorn but they are not the instigators.

You seem to labour under many misapprehensions, probably developed in the 70s when there may have been a case for such a position, but in the modern world there appears to very little, if any, evidence for your assertions.

If you disagree, feel free to offer some real world examples of "social democrats" using "Marxist dialectics" along the lines of "cultural Marxism". By that I mean don't just point to "the breakdown of the traditional family" but highlight the Marxist interpretations of relevant phenomena and the active role they play in policy making that changes how people can and do live their lives. For example, the Tories introducing gay marriage may be such a social change away from traditional norms, but I'm quite sure that David Cameron and Nick Clegg were not discussing the policy in accordance with Marxist dialectics when they drew it up. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd genuinely love to see it.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Is it easier for you to airbrush history BP9 ?

Again? Where have I denied or airbrushed history ? - is that how low you need to stoop? I question the validity of the linkages for the now and the future not the past

[rangersfc77 170]

tour based

I know you deliberately have missed the point - I have a great deal of sympathy for Ulstrr Unionists - as an SNP supporter I have a great belief in self determination.

I also have no love for the IRA as they are just murdering scum (and I did a 3 year tour based in LONDONDerry)- Oh and my wife is a good Loyalist and we both have alligience to the crown. (and for the less socially aware - voting YES is NOT anti royalist)

BUT none of that should have, nor has anything to do with the football team I support or why I support it - and so that my team gets stronger and remains relevant in the furture I favour decoupling of any linkage between Rangers and any poilitical or religious 'movement' - you would prefer a strengthening - so we disagree on that.

Good point

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Again? Where have I denied or airbrushed history ? - is that how low you need to stoop? I question the validity of the linkages for the now and the future not the past

That is not to say your cause is unjust, I have a lot of sympathy for it, it just has fk all to do with Rangers

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Correct - so how do you get from that to air brushing out history apart from in your imagination

[SkiBunny 441]

and here::

BUT none of that should have, nor has anything to do with the football team I support

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Correct - so how do you get from that to air brushing out history apart from in your imagination

Its simple you have made a number of assertions, highlighted by others as well as myself.

Its clear from our clubs history, the demography of our supporter base, the flags and symbolism as well as the song repertoire we sing week in week out - that it has plenty to do with Rangers.

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, as is your right, but denying it exists is a lie.

[Christchurch Rangers 1,229]

Its simple you have made a number of assertions, highlighted by others as well as myself.

Its clear from our clubs history, the demography of our supporter base, the flags and symbolism as well as the song repertoire we sing week in week out - that it has plenty to do with Rangers.

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, as is your right, but denying it exists is a lie.

whatever ones viewpoint, you can't argue with that post