Scottish player mentality

[Airdriebear 0]

As we all know after the plg escapade, it seems the type of social life our scottish players have seems to be frowned upon by the europeans, do you think that if we cut out the drink and clubbing nights our scottish players have we would be able to compete in europe even more than we are at the moment?

Before anyone says if, yes i know the 9iar team was the team that drink together win together, but lets face it they didnt achieve anything like we have achieved in europe in the last few years.

It seems obvious to me that Macgregor, Hutton and Boyd seem to be well linked with each other outside the club, hence the skinheads, but is this really what we need to compete in europe is it not better to be more health and fitness related?

[nvager 498]

I think WS is changing things too. The new Health specialist/sports trainer had all the players on certain diets in the off season and players were tested when they returned. Hutton and Boyd both appear much fitter this year and the whole team looks stronger and fitter than before. There is HOPE yet.

[wronglypenalised 14]

I feel there are many more factors involved than just going out on the bevvy, you only need to see the likes of Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc who are notorious on the party circuits on the continent, yet those guys are awesome footballers.

It has more to do with things like coaching from the early years of their development (of which it would appear are being looked at and remedied) the mentality of the players to kick the ball up to an attacker then press the game higher up the park, in essence giving the opposition plenty possession and space in behind for the counter attack.

We as fans have to take a bit of the blame as well as we are of the mentality of 'they don't like it up em' so we vocally encourage our players to go through the opposition in the tackle, how many continental defenders do you see dive fully into the tackle compared to the composed jockeying of players that we often see at Champions League level?

You often hear the groans around the stadium if we are up the left flank then turn to play the ball a bit deeper infield then back to a defender, the much wanted and needed possession heralded as the ultimate necessity of the modern game, not us fans though! I realise that the way we play has been successful up to a degree (the recent Scotland, and Champions League games under McLeish & Smith spring to mind) but compared to the volume of games won by teams who play the desired composed and smooth tempo I think I know which style of play I would rather have in my team.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Agree with Nvager on this one, the current Rangers team are being driven by a health and fitness regime which has been designed for each individual and by specialists.

I think (so far) this season we are already seeing the benefits, the players are looking fitter and healthier and last season when we seemed to run out of steam after about 80 minutes we seem to be able to go the full distance and continue to fight. I know part of that is down to the management of WS but part of it must also be down to the changes in life style etc.

[Airdriebear 0]

My best friend is a primary school teacher, who also takes the school football team.

Anyway, the biggest problem he finds with that age group is not SFA meddling, poor coaching, etc. He thinks the biggest hindrance to him taking the school football team is......... women.

He tells me of countless arguments he has in school up against a ''its not the winning it is the taking part that counts'' mentality he finds most female teachers have. Indeed he wanted to take the boys for after school football a couple of nights a week, but wasn't allowed because his head teacher felt that ''the other children would feel left out''.

That seems really strange that the headmaster wouldnt want to encourage regular exercise and training outwith school hours, especially considering your friend will be giving up there free time to do this. Surely the team can only get better and it will benefit the school in a positive manner.

[Airdriebear 0]

My best friend is a primary school teacher, who also takes the school football team.

Anyway, the biggest problem he finds with that age group is not SFA meddling, poor coaching, etc. He thinks the biggest hindrance to him taking the school football team is......... women.

He tells me of countless arguments he has in school up against a ''its not the winning it is the taking part that counts'' mentality he finds most female teachers have. Indeed he wanted to take the boys for after school football a couple of nights a week, but wasn't allowed because his head teacher felt that ''the other children would feel left out''.

That seems really strange that the headmaster wouldnt want to encourage regular exercise and training outwith school hours, especially considering your friend will be giving up there free time to do this. Surely the team can only get better and it will benefit the school in a positive manner.

His team is already pretty good, infact probably the best in there area (this probably reflects the fact its quite a poverty stricken area and a largish primary school), and my friend contractually bound to give up something like 60hrs per year for work outwith the regular school day (parents nights, school trips, football, etc, etc). So taking the boys for an hour after school a couple of nights a week would eat up alot of that. Also with things like PE and what you have to do mixed teams, etc.

It is odd, but remember around where I stay they take the goalposts down in the public park during school holidays to stop loitering, and don't maintain the council parks because 'people would just play on them' (instead of booking the grass parks, which nobody has done, when I enquired, since 2004. These said grass parks are also closed and cannot be booked from May till September and cannot be booked because they are officially down for annual maintainence)

you make a great point about the parks in the summer holidays but they have to allow time for the parks to recover from the season, more astro parks are what is needed.

badger do you know if all teachers are contractually bound to do these sorts of hours in a primary school

[Boab 73]

My brother in law runs partick thistle under 5s and under 6s in EK. I was shocked to learn the other day that he runs the ONLY under 5s team in the area and one of the very few under 6s team in the area. We leave it too late before we start coaching kids. By the time they are 7, they have already missed hte key age to start learning.

I was a coach of the under 7s, including generally 5 and 6 year olds going to 8s, 9s and 10s

[Airdriebear 0]

my wee boy is 9 and i help out with the coaching of his team, there are 3 guys that have started coaching under 6s under 10s and under 12s. They have not been funded and do it off there own back. The problem is there is not enough funding involved in the game at this level.

[ExiledWeegie123 1,276]

that would obviously be the way to go,but tbh the amount of money that would need to be spent and continue to be spent is something that councils wont be prepared to do,every night theres hundreds of people take their dogs to their local grass areas which just happen to be the local playing parks and every night theres young folk smashing bottles all over the place and with junkies and their needles left laying around it just makes for too much work,indoor organised and safe is the way to go in this country in afraid

[papaguy51 912]

Bagder has it spot on when he says that too many kids get the whole 'its all about taking part, not the winning' drummed into them.

It's probably the biggest sham ever that the majority our kids get brought up with that attitude. I never was, and while I'm probably the worst loser ever, I'm successful in almost everything I do.

If you listen to experts such as Marcotti and Balague, they tell us that the problem with British football can also be put down to parents on the sidelines at football matches, constantly screaming at their kids to hoof it up the park etc. In fact, they go as far to say that most kids teams abroad do not ALLOW parents onto the sidelines at matches, instead letting the coach dictate everything.

We can also mabye look at the 'a good big one is better than a good little one' mentality that seems to haunt football on these isles.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,666]

I never understod the whol concept of "it's not the winning, it's the taking part that counts approach"

Perhaps it's just because I'm a born winner, I don't know, but WTF's the point in being apart of/entering something if you don't want to win it?

It's such a negative mindset to have before a ball has even been kicked.

I remmeber when i was captain of my U18's team they used to all be so negative and talk about damage limitation it was unreal!

[Stardog 11]

As we all know after the plg escapade, it seems the type of social life our scottish players have seems to be frowned upon by the europeans, do you think that if we cut out the drink and clubbing nights our scottish players have we would be able to compete in europe even more than we are at the moment?

Before anyone says if, yes i know the 9iar team was the team that drink together win together, but lets face it they didnt achieve anything like we have achieved in europe in the last few years.

It seems obvious to me that Macgregor, Hutton and Boyd seem to be well linked with each other outside the club, hence the skinheads, but is this really what we need to compete in europe is it not better to be more health and fitness related?

That's my biggest problem with Scottish football culture in general. They think they can keep boozing when they're on £10k+ per week. It's a joke.

If the 9iar team were pro's off the field like Laudrup was, then we might've done far better in Europe.

And to whoever was talking about Ronaldinho partying:

Ronaldinho's Barcelona team-mate Lionel Messi has come to his defence after the Brazilian was criticised after being photographed apparently carrying extra weight around his middle in Barcelona's midweek defeat to Liverpool.

"When something goes wrong, they always blame Ronaldinho but when he scores a couple of goals he is the best," said Messi. "He has scored 16 league goals so there is no reason to complain about his performances this season."

But Ronaldinho has the talent to back it up.

I never understod the whol concept of "it's not the winning, it's the taking part that counts approach"

Perhaps it's just because I'm a born winner, I don't know, but WTF's the point in being apart of/entering something if you don't want to win it?

It's such a negative mindset to have before a ball has even been kicked.

I remmeber when i was captain of my U18's team they used to all be so negative and talk about damage limitation it was unreal!

I don't think it's a negative mindset at all. If it's kids we're talking about then it lowers the pressure on them.

Every player that's on a pitch will play to help their team win. None of them go on thinking "lets have fun and lose!", even if they've been told that it's the taking part that counts.

If they're 15/16+ then maybe they should start getting chosen on how they perform rather than just being about taking part.

[rab wilson 3,250]

Bagder has it spot on when he says that too many kids get the whole 'its all about taking part, not the winning' drummed into them.

It's probably the biggest sham ever that the majority our kids get brought up with that attitude. I never was, and while I'm probably the worst loser ever, I'm successful in almost everything I do.

If you listen to experts such as Marcotti and Balague, they tell us that the problem with British football can also be put down to parents on the sidelines at football matches, constantly screaming at their kids to hoof it up the park etc. In fact, they go as far to say that most kids teams abroad do not ALLOW parents onto the sidelines at matches, instead letting the coach dictate everything.

We can also mabye look at the 'a good big one is better than a good little one' mentality that seems to haunt football on these isles.

that post is bang on by the way. i coach on a sunday.no parents stand with me during games now, co they know i know what i'm talking about. where they used to come over at half time,now it's only me and the manager. it makes them feel special and that their parents are only there to support them.

That's the way i learned to play football in germany,and i went all the way.My boys won't ever be world beaters,far from it, but a greater set of lads you won.t get.

Me and a formwer ajax player coached them together for a year, now it,s just me.Always make me feel sort of proud when i see them play"rundpass" before games without being asked.If people put the time in the kids will respond.Ours did. Kids just need to know that the person in charge of them gives a fuck, that he won't let them down, and that he does his best to make them better people perhaps.it's not that easy, but that is basically it.

\\the government must find someway to subsidise costs for people whoput themselves out.

[CanadianGer 1]

Also, I know a few people who have lived abroad for a while. One of my family worked in Holland and Germany for 3-4yrs, and whilst over there his little boy played for the local youth teams, and he says the coaching over there is definitely superior. He put is along the lines of - ''When you go to school and do science, you learn about the theory behind the practical and experiment (fun) work, you're encouraged to ask questions about why things are, etc and you should build up a good understanding of whats going on. This is like football coaching on the continent. Whereas imagine you went to science class and the teacher rattled through experiment after experiment without doing any real theory work and once the work was finished, you got an extended playtime, this is like football coaching in Scotland''.

This is my experience too, Badger. Playing football in the US in 1998, I was astonished at the close control skills many of their guys had when supposedly 'soccer' was barely known. Coaching sessions involved lots of drills and emphasis on fundamentals. by contrast in Scotland at that time, a lot of our training involved running round the park several times, some sprints and then a practice game. For sure, few of their guys could read the game like guys on my team, but with time they obviously had the ground work to be really good.

The UK style of training in almost every area of sport also benefits those players who show some early promise to the expense of guys who may start slow but really build up. This is why its not uncommon to hear of Americans who suddenly decide to take up sports and two years later are competing at the top level while UK guys usually have a story about "even in primary school, he stood out..." and the sudden development into sports is almost unheard of.