Tonight's Game Strategy:

[wronglypenalised 14]

You have just named the exact team I thought you would name and IMO this is the team that Walter will start with tonight. I can quite honestly say that if this is the starting line up then we will exit the competition after suffering a defeat by at least 2 goals. We will more than certainly go a goal down using this line up and the only way we will get something out of the game is if (and it's a big IF) Walter changes things and plays a more proactive style of football.

What formation and personnel would you recommend for tonight? 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, hell why not go for the old 2-3-5, don't want this to sound like an attack on you bud, but we've beaten teams and scored goals with that formation. Why drastically change now?

At NO point have I said we should drastically change the formation, what I have been saying is that playing three defensive minded and slow for that matter central midfielders (Ferguson, Hemdani and Thomson) will just lead to us sitting far too deep. We did this against Lyon in the first leg which resulted in them having 24 chances in the game to our 4 (all beit we took our chances on the night) but our luck won't hold out like that again.

My team for tonight would be...

McGregor

Hutton Weir Cueller Papac

Naismith Ferguson Hemdani McCulloch

Buffel

Boyd

You mentioned earlier that we concede possession too easily and let the oppo roll on top of us, tell me then how do you think our 2 CM's would cope against their 3 CM's driving at us with pace, do you really think that buffel is one for tracking back? sorry mate but you think we're brainwashed because we see a system that matches up with the oppo as being negative and will see to us being Beaten by 2 or more goals, with that formation for 90 mins I could see it being a helluva lot worse!

[port_bear 86]

We are capable of playing attacking football with this so called 'defensive formation'.

Spot on

It really made me sick after the Stuttgart game the way some fans had a go at Walter's tactics. We scored two goals on the night, created good opportunities throughout and the game could have gone either way. We conceded the third in Germany after switching to 4-4-2 ! We've put 4 past Stuttgart, 3 past Celtic and 3 past Lyon using this system !

I think some fans need to get over how it looks to them on paper. To think how low the expectations were before we started this group...........Walter has found a formula that has already delivered more than most fans were expecting......and yet they still mump and moan.

Walter has been spot on with his tactics, and I'd like someone to find one professional player or respected manager that has thought otherwise.

Are you Walter Smith in disguise ?? Or are you just brainwashed like other fans on this board ??

Look at the stats for all our champions league games this season and you will see that we have been outplayed, outclassed and overrun in ALL 5 games so far using this so called "magnificent tactic".. We have allowed teams to control the game, we have allowed them to bombard our goal and IMO we have ridden our luck (which is now running out).... This tactic is nothing more than a containment formation and once we lose a goal it becomes obsolite and useless.

The reason we lost the 3rd goal in Stuttgart is not because we changed to 4-4-2 but because we waited so long to make those changes. After the 2nd goal had gone in we had Stuttgart on the ropes and that was the time to get some fresh legs on the park (as Darchville was done) and go for the 3rd. However Walter (the genius) waited and waited which allowed Stuttgart to get back into the game and when we eventually did go for the win they caught us on the break.

How do you actually view us in european terms ? I view us as a distinctly average european outfit, at best, one of two or three sides that everyone will be dying to get drawn with in the last 16 should we progress.

Barcelona, the french champions and the german champions are a class above us. That's fact. We can go down the 'we are Rangers, Super Rangers' route, as if we are invincible, if you want, but it's a million miles from the truth.

Was it really any surprise that fantastic european outfits like Barcelona and Lyon showed more class than us ? Had more of the ball ? Created more chances ? Are people actually telling me that this is a shock to the system ?

We are not on the same level as these sides. The match stats will no doubt tend to be in their favour. That is nothing to be embarrassed about. We can still compete with them. But to think that we would have been more dominant in games if we had played 4-4-2 would be naive in the extreme.

You asked whether or not I'm brainwashed like other supporters on this board. I would suggest that you add to that list just about every professional football player or manager around. They all seem to think Walter has been spot on so far.

Where did I say we should play 4-4-2 ???

As for your comment which I have highlighted, this is exactly the negativity that will stop us from even progressing as side in Europe. This whole attitude of being happy with what we have got is really what angers me. Yes we dont have the funds or class that the bigger clubs in Europe have at their disposal but that doesnt mean we should lie down to teams and be happy with what we get. If thats the attitude then why even be in the competition in the first place??

[port_bear 86]

You have just named the exact team I thought you would name and IMO this is the team that Walter will start with tonight. I can quite honestly say that if this is the starting line up then we will exit the competition after suffering a defeat by at least 2 goals. We will more than certainly go a goal down using this line up and the only way we will get something out of the game is if (and it's a big IF) Walter changes things and plays a more proactive style of football.

What formation and personnel would you recommend for tonight? 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, hell why not go for the old 2-3-5, don't want this to sound like an attack on you bud, but we've beaten teams and scored goals with that formation. Why drastically change now?

At NO point have I said we should drastically change the formation, what I have been saying is that playing three defensive minded and slow for that matter central midfielders (Ferguson, Hemdani and Thomson) will just lead to us sitting far too deep. We did this against Lyon in the first leg which resulted in them having 24 chances in the game to our 4 (all beit we took our chances on the night) but our luck won't hold out like that again.

My team for tonight would be...

McGregor

Hutton Weir Cueller Papac

Naismith Ferguson Hemdani McCulloch

Buffel

Boyd

You mentioned earlier that we concede possession too easily and let the oppo roll on top of us, tell me then how do you think our 2 CM's would cope against their 3 CM's driving at us with pace, do you really think that buffel is one for tracking back? sorry mate but you think we're brainwashed because we see a system that matches up with the oppo as being negative and will see to us being Beaten by 2 or more goals, with that formation for 90 mins I could see it being a helluva lot worse!

Well we will see tonight as Walter will almost certainly go with the formation that you want him to go with ... I just hope I'm not on here tomorrow saying I told you so !!

[ara 154]

With our 3 fastest players out...might be a problem!

Thats not as big a factor as people are making out IMO.

Assuming that Naisy starts in place oin Beasley then we are going to play the exact same team that we did in Lyon and we had no problems over there.

No problems?... don't think so bud...if they'd scored a fraction of their shots we'd be intae double figures...we scored all of ours... their possession was 67% !! (watched it again on Rangers TV last night)

Lets not kid ourselves, if we sit back and let them come at us, we have a fair chance of not being so lucky again...

We've got to have a go and not play for a draw ... there's a big difference in sitting deep and letting them run the game & playing a tight game with a level of control and the ability to break at speed with numbers (Italian style) We sat back too deep in Barca and didn't want to move forward - until the last 10 minutes when we just had a go with JCD and Novo. Every fan out there said we should have gone at them from the start 'cos we'd nothing to lose and we didn't...

Like Barca, Lyon's main weakness is in defence, so it makes sense to really test that and see if we can break their confidence in front of a packed Ibrox ... draw mentality = nervy game = nervy crowd = nervy players = mistakes = ma heid in a bucket tomorrow mornin!!

Obviously load of different views on this one...I just want to see us score ANOTHER THREE!!!

Fuckin hell ... just realised there's less than 6 hours to go!!

[ScotBear 144]

We are capable of playing attacking football with this so called 'defensive formation'.

Spot on

It really made me sick after the Stuttgart game the way some fans had a go at Walter's tactics. We scored two goals on the night, created good opportunities throughout and the game could have gone either way. We conceded the third in Germany after switching to 4-4-2 ! We've put 4 past Stuttgart, 3 past Celtic and 3 past Lyon using this system !

I think some fans need to get over how it looks to them on paper. To think how low the expectations were before we started this group...........Walter has found a formula that has already delivered more than most fans were expecting......and yet they still mump and moan.

Walter has been spot on with his tactics, and I'd like someone to find one professional player or respected manager that has thought otherwise.

Are you Walter Smith in disguise ?? Or are you just brainwashed like other fans on this board ??

Look at the stats for all our champions league games this season and you will see that we have been outplayed, outclassed and overrun in ALL 5 games so far using this so called "magnificent tactic".. We have allowed teams to control the game, we have allowed them to bombard our goal and IMO we have ridden our luck (which is now running out).... This tactic is nothing more than a containment formation and once we lose a goal it becomes obsolite and useless.

The reason we lost the 3rd goal in Stuttgart is not because we changed to 4-4-2 but because we waited so long to make those changes. After the 2nd goal had gone in we had Stuttgart on the ropes and that was the time to get some fresh legs on the park (as Darchville was done) and go for the 3rd. However Walter (the genius) waited and waited which allowed Stuttgart to get back into the game and when we eventually did go for the win they caught us on the break.

How do you actually view us in european terms ? I view us as a distinctly average european outfit, at best, one of two or three sides that everyone will be dying to get drawn with in the last 16 should we progress.

Barcelona, the french champions and the german champions are a class above us. That's fact. We can go down the 'we are Rangers, Super Rangers' route, as if we are invincible, if you want, but it's a million miles from the truth.

Was it really any surprise that fantastic european outfits like Barcelona and Lyon showed more class than us ? Had more of the ball ? Created more chances ? Are people actually telling me that this is a shock to the system ?

We are not on the same level as these sides. The match stats will no doubt tend to be in their favour. That is nothing to be embarrassed about. We can still compete with them. But to think that we would have been more dominant in games if we had played 4-4-2 would be naive in the extreme.

You asked whether or not I'm brainwashed like other supporters on this board. I would suggest that you add to that list just about every professional football player or manager around. They all seem to think Walter has been spot on so far.

Where did I say we should play 4-4-2 ???

As for your comment which I have highlighted, this is exactly the negativity that will stop us from even progressing as side in Europe. This whole attitude of being happy with what we have got is really what angers me. Yes we dont have the funds or class that the bigger clubs in Europe have at their disposal but that doesnt mean we should lie down to teams and be happy with what we get. If thats the attitude then why even be in the competition in the first place??

Are you actually saying these words....... ??

Firstly, you didn't say 4-4-2 in the above post, but I'm almost certain you've banged on about 4-4-2 previously. If not, 4-4-1-1 with Buffel (who hasn't played a competitive game for aaaaaggggeeesss coming in) and Boyd up top (who simply doesn't have the movement and touch for this level). If Boyd was to play, he'd have to have someone like Darcheville right up top alongside him, and we don't have that option from the start tonight.

As for the negativity, I call it realism. In Champions League terms, if someone can argue against my belief that we are a distinctly average side (who are capable of competing with top sides as we have shown), then I'd be amazed.

Also, where do I say I'm happy with what we have got ? I always want to see us improve. I believe that we can continue to progress in europe over the years, and establish ourselves as a consistent last 16. I also believe we are more than capable of reaching the last 8 within the next few years..........and in 10 years or so, who knows what we could achieve ?

Also, where is there any attitude of lying down ? You make it as if we play 4-1-4-1 and bend over to sides.

[wronglypenalised 14]

You have just named the exact team I thought you would name and IMO this is the team that Walter will start with tonight. I can quite honestly say that if this is the starting line up then we will exit the competition after suffering a defeat by at least 2 goals. We will more than certainly go a goal down using this line up and the only way we will get something out of the game is if (and it's a big IF) Walter changes things and plays a more proactive style of football.

What formation and personnel would you recommend for tonight? 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, hell why not go for the old 2-3-5, don't want this to sound like an attack on you bud, but we've beaten teams and scored goals with that formation. Why drastically change now?

At NO point have I said we should drastically change the formation, what I have been saying is that playing three defensive minded and slow for that matter central midfielders (Ferguson, Hemdani and Thomson) will just lead to us sitting far too deep. We did this against Lyon in the first leg which resulted in them having 24 chances in the game to our 4 (all beit we took our chances on the night) but our luck won't hold out like that again.

My team for tonight would be...

McGregor

Hutton Weir Cueller Papac

Naismith Ferguson Hemdani McCulloch

Buffel

Boyd

You mentioned earlier that we concede possession too easily and let the oppo roll on top of us, tell me then how do you think our 2 CM's would cope against their 3 CM's driving at us with pace, do you really think that buffel is one for tracking back? sorry mate but you think we're brainwashed because we see a system that matches up with the oppo as being negative and will see to us being Beaten by 2 or more goals, with that formation for 90 mins I could see it being a helluva lot worse!

Well we will see tonight as Walter will almost certainly go with the formation that you want him to go with ... I just hope I'm not on here tomorrow saying I told you so !!

I hope I am on here tomorrow saying I told you so at the end of the day we both want whats best for our team, and thats all that matters, I know at times it's frustrating to see the oppo have 60-70% possession but if we take our chances and they don't then all the stats in the world can say what they like, the only stat that matters is the goals scored column for us is higher than the one for the other side, heres to the gers :beer2:

[port_bear 86]

We are capable of playing attacking football with this so called 'defensive formation'.

Spot on

It really made me sick after the Stuttgart game the way some fans had a go at Walter's tactics. We scored two goals on the night, created good opportunities throughout and the game could have gone either way. We conceded the third in Germany after switching to 4-4-2 ! We've put 4 past Stuttgart, 3 past Celtic and 3 past Lyon using this system !

I think some fans need to get over how it looks to them on paper. To think how low the expectations were before we started this group...........Walter has found a formula that has already delivered more than most fans were expecting......and yet they still mump and moan.

Walter has been spot on with his tactics, and I'd like someone to find one professional player or respected manager that has thought otherwise.

Are you Walter Smith in disguise ?? Or are you just brainwashed like other fans on this board ??

Look at the stats for all our champions league games this season and you will see that we have been outplayed, outclassed and overrun in ALL 5 games so far using this so called "magnificent tactic".. We have allowed teams to control the game, we have allowed them to bombard our goal and IMO we have ridden our luck (which is now running out).... This tactic is nothing more than a containment formation and once we lose a goal it becomes obsolite and useless.

The reason we lost the 3rd goal in Stuttgart is not because we changed to 4-4-2 but because we waited so long to make those changes. After the 2nd goal had gone in we had Stuttgart on the ropes and that was the time to get some fresh legs on the park (as Darchville was done) and go for the 3rd. However Walter (the genius) waited and waited which allowed Stuttgart to get back into the game and when we eventually did go for the win they caught us on the break.

How do you actually view us in european terms ? I view us as a distinctly average european outfit, at best, one of two or three sides that everyone will be dying to get drawn with in the last 16 should we progress.

Barcelona, the french champions and the german champions are a class above us. That's fact. We can go down the 'we are Rangers, Super Rangers' route, as if we are invincible, if you want, but it's a million miles from the truth.

Was it really any surprise that fantastic european outfits like Barcelona and Lyon showed more class than us ? Had more of the ball ? Created more chances ? Are people actually telling me that this is a shock to the system ?

We are not on the same level as these sides. The match stats will no doubt tend to be in their favour. That is nothing to be embarrassed about. We can still compete with them. But to think that we would have been more dominant in games if we had played 4-4-2 would be naive in the extreme.

You asked whether or not I'm brainwashed like other supporters on this board. I would suggest that you add to that list just about every professional football player or manager around. They all seem to think Walter has been spot on so far.

Where did I say we should play 4-4-2 ???

As for your comment which I have highlighted, this is exactly the negativity that will stop us from even progressing as side in Europe. This whole attitude of being happy with what we have got is really what angers me. Yes we dont have the funds or class that the bigger clubs in Europe have at their disposal but that doesnt mean we should lie down to teams and be happy with what we get. If thats the attitude then why even be in the competition in the first place??

Are you actually saying these words....... ??

Firstly, you didn't say 4-4-2 in the above post, but I'm almost certain you've banged on about 4-4-2 previously. If not, 4-1-4-1 with Buffel (who hasn't played a competitive game for aaaaaggggeeesss coming in) and Boyd up top (who simply doesn't have the movement and touch for this level). If Boyd was to play, he'd have to have someone like Darcheville right up top alongside him, and we don't have that option from the start tonight.

As for the negativity, I call it realism. In Champions League terms, if someone can argue against my belief that we are a distinctly average side (who are capable of competing with top sides as we have shown), then I'd be amazed.

Also, where do I say I'm happy with what we have got ? I always want to see us improve. I believe that we can continue to progress in europe over the years, and establish ourselves as a consistent last 16. I also believe we are more than capable of reaching the last 8 within the next few years..........in 10 years or so, who knows ?

Also, where is there any attitude of lying down ? You make it as if we play 4-1-4-1 and bend over to sides.

No we don't play 4-1-4-1 with the attitude of lying down, its more like 4-3-2-1 as Ferguson drops deep to try and start our build up from the back (which he does best) and would you guess who is already there sitting ontop of the back four ?? Thats right youve guessed it Thomson and Hemdani, standing in a line with Ferguson with him looking up for someone to pass to (happens time and time again)....

[port_bear 86]

You have just named the exact team I thought you would name and IMO this is the team that Walter will start with tonight. I can quite honestly say that if this is the starting line up then we will exit the competition after suffering a defeat by at least 2 goals. We will more than certainly go a goal down using this line up and the only way we will get something out of the game is if (and it's a big IF) Walter changes things and plays a more proactive style of football.

What formation and personnel would you recommend for tonight? 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-2-4, hell why not go for the old 2-3-5, don't want this to sound like an attack on you bud, but we've beaten teams and scored goals with that formation. Why drastically change now?

At NO point have I said we should drastically change the formation, what I have been saying is that playing three defensive minded and slow for that matter central midfielders (Ferguson, Hemdani and Thomson) will just lead to us sitting far too deep. We did this against Lyon in the first leg which resulted in them having 24 chances in the game to our 4 (all beit we took our chances on the night) but our luck won't hold out like that again.

My team for tonight would be...

McGregor

Hutton Weir Cueller Papac

Naismith Ferguson Hemdani McCulloch

Buffel

Boyd

You mentioned earlier that we concede possession too easily and let the oppo roll on top of us, tell me then how do you think our 2 CM's would cope against their 3 CM's driving at us with pace, do you really think that buffel is one for tracking back? sorry mate but you think we're brainwashed because we see a system that matches up with the oppo as being negative and will see to us being Beaten by 2 or more goals, with that formation for 90 mins I could see it being a helluva lot worse!

Well we will see tonight as Walter will almost certainly go with the formation that you want him to go with ... I just hope I'm not on here tomorrow saying I told you so !!

I hope I am on here tomorrow saying I told you so at the end of the day we both want whats best for our team, and thats all that matters, I know at times it's frustrating to see the oppo have 60-70% possession but if we take our chances and they don't then all the stats in the world can say what they like, the only stat that matters is the goals scored column for us is higher than the one for the other side, heres to the gers :beer2:

I would f.cking LOVE IT if I was on here tomorrow and had to eat large slices of humble pie because that would mean we had made it through to the last 16. However I just don't see it, not if we play that line-up because if we do Lyon will score early on and then we are we ? what happens to our tactic? do we change ? do we stay as is and hope to get something ?....

[ara 154]

POLL NOW LYING AT EXACTLY 50:50 !!!

Hope Walter & Ally are no havin a blazin row all the way through to kick off!...

:baffled:

[docspiderman 1,255]

The weak link, I believe is McCulloch as a midfielder; if we are to play4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 he should not be part of the 4. His attribute is offensive and in the air, and I hate it when he tries to close down by waving his arms when he 10 yards away from ball or opponent. But I have no doubt that he will always be in Walters team.

[Wreckedroy 33]

We are capable of playing attacking football with this so called 'defensive formation'.

Spot on

It really made me sick after the Stuttgart game the way some fans had a go at Walter's tactics. We scored two goals on the night, created good opportunities throughout and the game could have gone either way. We conceded the third in Germany after switching to 4-4-2 ! We've put 4 past Stuttgart, 3 past Celtic and 3 past Lyon using this system !

I think some fans need to get over how it looks to them on paper. To think how low the expectations were before we started this group...........Walter has found a formula that has already delivered more than most fans were expecting......and yet they still mump and moan.

Walter has been spot on with his tactics, and I'd like someone to find one professional player or respected manager that has thought otherwise.

I totally agree Scotbear! We have to stick to our gameplan, and we must be disciplined. These have been our strengths throughout this campaign and we can't just through it all away by getting all gung-ho!

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,378]

The weak link, I believe is McCulloch as a midfielder; if we are to play4-1-4-1 or 4-4-1-1 he should not be part of the 4. His attribute is offensive and in the air, and I hate it when he tries to close down by waving his arms when he 10 yards away from ball or opponent. But I have no doubt that he will always be in Walters team.

I'm not purposely playing Devil's Advocate, but atleast he is trying to close down and give Papac that little bit more protection. If he didn't attempt to close down more then teams would cause us real problems down that side of the pitch and that was never more evident then when we lost McCulloch in Stuttgart.

Saying that McCulloch would be better playing upfront and acting as the first line of defence as he could narrow the space that Lyon's backline has to play a pass in.

However I would actually say that the weakest link in a 4-4-1-1 IMHO is playing Ferguson as an attacking midfielder.

He insiticntively drops deep to try and create space where he can pick the ball up and dictate the pace of the game and when he does that it leaves a massive gap where the attacking midfielder should be playing, which in turn leaves the lone striker isolated.

There have been numerous times when Cousin has flicked the ball on or JCD has held it up well while waiting/anticipating the runner from midfield but it doesn't happen as Ferguson is playing too deep.

I think some people deny it as it was PLG who originally pointed it out, but if Ferguson started in a deeper position we would have far more possession than we are now and Naisy/Novo?Beasley and JCD's great movement could be put to better use.

[delparlane 5,753]

I'd honestly go the Cup Final route. Might end up being punished for it, but I feel we were very lucky to win the first match 3-0 - that scoreline flattered the hell out of us.

Against Barca at Ibrox we sat back and paid the price, when we saw how much it got to them in the last few minutes when we had a go and created a number of chances.

BUT... the big factor here is our lack of pace without Beasley and JCD. I seriously doubt WS will throw Buffel, Burke, or Gow on, so we may be forced to play more defensively. Should be interesting to see what we come out with - at this point, I just want the game to get started and get stuck intae them!

[soulboy 2,521]

Walter has sprung a few surprises with team selection on CL nights will there be one tonight ? Not saying we have to go all out for it but we def need to be closing them down quickly and flying into tackles if we are more than 50 yards from our goal coz they will pass us off the park if we give them space.

[port_bear 86]

With both choices we have the ability to win or get horsed, for me the priority is to not lose a goal simply because if we don't lose a goal, we go through! We have played this way all through the campaign, why change it for the last one? If Walter does change and we get chucked out then folk will be saying why did you change? If we go out by playing the same way folk will say why didn't you change it? We have had debates on here for the past few months about the lack of pace in the team, well how then do you get a unit to move quicker when we're on the backfoot? for the players we have I feel its better that we have the game in front of us, it's up to them to get the goal, and as much as I hate watching that style of play if it gets us through then so be it!

C'mon Rangers do it for us guys!

So what happens if we play with 10 men behind the ball (in our own half) and Lyon get an early goal like Barca did in the Nou Camp ? The whole 4-1-4-1 formation is a containment formation, nothing more and when Lyon score (which I think they will) the whole formation and tactic is dead in the water !!

My own thoughts is to play a balanced 4-4-1-1 formation with Naismith, Buffel and Boyd all starting and we press them from the start (not that I mean go gung ho) but just apply some pressure of our own rather than sit back for 90 minutes. If we press them then we have more chance of scoring and if we score early that would mean they would need TWO goals to go through !!

I'll have to disagree with you here bud, 4-1-4-1 is quite a good formation, have a look at any European team and you'll spot the players all over the park playing in small diamonds, this particular formation means that no matter where any of our players are, they have an option to each side of them plus an option in front and behind them. All the one up front means is that the lone striker has to shuttle from side to side within the tram lines of the box to be the spearhead of the attack. What we lack is genuine pace and the fluency of passing that the continentals have, something that is being addressed by youth football through this side of Scotland, not too sure about back in the west. You can press all over the park without the need to cover a large ground, the striker is the one who does most of the chasing on his own.

If they are going to have 3 interchanging MF's as well as 3 interchanging AT's then it makes more sense to have them in front of us rather than chasing them back and no def's having a scooby who's meant to be defending who. We have shown that we can score goals with that formation, 2,3,3 in the games excluding Barca who if we're being honest were more than likely to turn us over in both games yet we still got a point from them.

I just don't want to see the players and management getting the treatment if we go out, remember we were bottom seeds and we have a chance to go through in 2nd place, we were bottom seeds for a reason. Just hope the game goes to plan tonight and we don't have a soft ref who gives them everything for falling over their shoelaces.

*edit - goals scored should be 2-3-2 ::

Do we still think the magnififcent 4-1-4-1 formation is working ? eh Scotbear and wronglypenalised ??

What are your thoughts after last night ?

I told you all yesterday that if we started with a defensive line-up (which I predicted) we would go a goal down within 20 minutes.