Our European Finals..

[Ozblue 4,331]

What a memory mate. That's impressive.

Thanks mate! It's not difficult to remember any finals in Europe especially when certain events or people jog the old memory box, such as Kurt Hamrin in the Fiorentina games where the little Swede seemed to be everywhere, then in 1967 the stupidity of John Lawrence followed by the decision of Scott Symon in the final to drop Alex Willoughby for Roger Hynd (presumably for his height) then seeing what to me appeared a perfectly good goal by Hynd being disallowed.

That Nuremberg final still enrages me to this day.

[Ozblue 4,331]

The 60-61 final against Fiorentina at Ibrox,, Harold Davis hit a shitty pass back to our keeper, and their player nicked in ans Scored. We got a penalty than never was, and Eric Caldow missed it, plus we kept hitting high ball all night, which was a waste of time.. We also gave away a last minute goal. Can also mind the bottles were flying, and the Italian flag was torn down from above the Derry shed, and after the game cafe windows getting smashed, and ice cream vans attacked.

I could never figure out why we got that penalty,minstral,but was glad we got it only for Caldow to miss it. It was probably my imagination but it seemed an eternity between when we were awarded the penalty and when Caldow missed it.

The last 3 seasons have reminded me of that night.

[Inigo 32,526]

At the same time can you ask him about both marseille games? Both employed joke tactics

That's a tough criticism considering we achieved two draws against what was an outstanding Marseille outfit.

[minstral 5,375]

I could never figure out why we got that penalty,minstral,but was glad we got it only for Caldow to miss it. It was probably my imagination but it seemed an eternity between when we were awarded the penalty and when Caldow missed it.

The last 3 seasons have reminded me of that night.

You are right mate, when we got awarded the penalty, their players did the usual crowding the referee, and wasted time, and as you say Caldow missed the kick.

[Ozblue 4,331]

You are right mate, when we got awarded the penalty, their players did the usual crowding the referee, and wasted time, and as you say Caldow missed the kick.

Yea mate, the Italians were all over the referee like bees at a honeypot. Caldow was clean shaven when we were awarded the penalty and had a beard by the time he hit it and their keeper must have been on the 6 yard box by then.

I think that game was possibly the first time I had really noticed the "Continental tactics" of time wasting to such an extent.

[Bobby Hume 13,068]

Yea mate, the Italians were all over the referee like bees at a honeypot. Caldow was clean shaven when we were awarded the penalty and had a beard by the time he hit it and their keeper must have been on the 6 yard box by then.

I think that game was possibly the first time I had really noticed the "Continental tactics" of time wasting to such an extent.

Spot on OB, their tactics were cynical, and it took a bit of time but eventually it crept into the British game, with the import of the mainly latino players stretching from South America to Portugal,Spain and Italy, and still enrages all whose team is on the receiving end of this treatment, then as now .... shocking.

[Ozblue 4,331]

Spot on OB, their tactics were cynical, and it took a bit of time but eventually it crept into the British game, with the import of the mainly latino players stretching from South America to Portugal,Spain and Italy, and still enrages all whose team is on the receiving end of this treatment, then as now .... shocking.

I agree with you,Bobby; and the problem is only getting worse to such an extent it is now seen at every level of football including amateur and kids football Kids see all these top players on TV going down as if hit with an Exocet missile or taking 45 seconds to take a throw-in and decide to copy it.

My first personal experience of it on the field was back in 1968 when I was playing against a Spanish founded team in an invitational cup final at their ground (I was a right winger in those days) and their left back kicked fucking lumps out of me every time I got the ball and their supporters who were very close to the touchline were chucking bottles and trying to spit on me at every turn.

Every time we got a free kick or a decision (which wasn't many) their players would all surround the referee; wouldn't retreat 10 yards etc and it bugged the fuck out of me. I think almost every player in our team came off that park wanting to kill somebody because of their tactics.

[Crespie6 334]

That's a tough criticism considering we achieved two draws against what was an outstanding Marseille outfit.

Smiths tactic was punt to Hateley and the striker would collect the flick on. After the first punt was flicked on and nobody was there to collect (Smith put durrant up front as mccoist was injured) Boli barely bothered to challenge. No idea why it took 70 minutes for him to realise that tactic wasnt working. As soon as we had a natural striker on the pitch and durrant in his proper position, we had them. Im convinced we'd have got a result if hed just started with that team.

Edit. The second game we played for a draw. One of the most dissappointing games ive watched of us, overtaken only recently by the europa final.

[Inigo 32,526]

Smiths tactic was punt to Hateley and the striker would collect the flick on. After the first punt was flicked on and nobody was there to collect (Smith put durrant up front as mccoist was injured) Boli barely bothered to challenge. No idea why it took 70 minutes for him to realise that tactic wasnt working. As soon as we had a natural striker on the pitch and durrant in his proper position, we had them. Im convinced we'd have got a result if hed just started with that team.

Edit. The second game we played for a draw. One of the most dissappointing games ive watched of us, overtaken only recently by the europa final.

I think if we hadn't been conservative in the second game, there's every chance we would have been pumped. This was a Marseille team that was probably the best team in Europe at the time. I thought we played an intelligent game over there and did as well as we could have.

I also think the only thing that changed in the home game was us nicking a goal. After that the momentum swung to us, with the crowd roaring us on, but before it we'd simply struggled against a technically much better outfit. We did play a fair amount of long ball, but that was par for the course back then and we were quite good at it generally. But it certainly wasn't all long ball. We tried to play on the ground as well. I think we were simply outplayed by a better team up until the goal.

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

Did someone say we beat Borrousia munchengladbach (excuse the spelling)11-0 in one of the semi finals? Jeez oh, that's some score, anyone have any details of this game?

[thedarvelmarvel 796]

all i remember was it poured and we hjad keep asking each other whats the score is it 9 or 10.

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

all i remember was it poured and we hjad keep asking each other whats the score is it 9 or 10.

Haha can just imagine, especially if everyone was half cut

[harlands plater 16,975]

In the 1960-61 final we got beaten 4-1 on aggregate by Fiorentina as it was a 2 legged affair. We actually thought we were going to romp that final because we had already humped Borussia Monchengladbach 11-0 in the quarter finals then beat the mighty (at that time) Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-1 on aggregate in the semi final.

Unfortunately it all went wrong at Ibrox when Luigi Milan scored after 12 minutes, but the guy who did all the damage was the 'mighty atom' Kurt Hamrin who ran us ragged and then Luigi Milan scored their second with only a few minutes remaining.

The second leg in Florence was much the same as the first game, but at least we almost got a draw out of it. Again Luigi Milan scored after 12 minutes and Kurt Hamrin pulled the strings for Fiorentina; Alex Scott scored shortly after half-time which gave us a bit of hope but Hamrin sealed our fate with another goal near the end of time.

So I think we got what we deserved over the two legs.

The 1967 final was a different thing altogether and our chairman at the time actually contributed to us getting defeated by Bayern Munich.

During that period our Chairman was John Lawrence and when we got defeated in the 1st round of the 1967 Scottish cup by Berwick Rangers (with Jock Wallace in goals) Lawrence blamed the mercurial scoring machine,Jim Forrest and big Dandy McLean for the defeat and told our manager Scott Symon never to play them again and get them transferred asap, which Symon duly did.

When it came to the final played virtually in Bayern's back yard at Nuremberg, Symon decided to drop Alex Willoughby (Jim Forrest's cousin) and play our then centre-half, Roger Hynd as our centre-forward. Hynd actually scored but it was chalked off for some reason, which I can't remember, then he missed an easy chance after being set up by Dave Smith, so it ended 0-0 after 90 minutes.

In extra time big Franz Roth scored with about 10 minutes left to play after our defence seemed to go to sleep and we couldn't find a way back.

I'm totally positive if we had Jim Forrest or Alex Willoughby in that team we would have won the game easily, but as I said, our own chairman caused more damage to us off the field than Bayern did on it.

We didn't deserve that.

Oz it's an education sometimes reading your posts, between this one and the recent one about Slim Jim's leg break in Vienna I've had a couple of things I've wondered about answered.

[Ozblue 4,331]

Oz it's an education sometimes reading your posts, between this one and the recent one about Slim Jim's leg break in Vienna I've had a couple of things I've wondered about answered.

I'm glad I can help fill in some details for you,mate!

[Ozblue 4,331]

Did someone say we beat Borrousia munchengladbach (excuse the spelling)11-0 in one of the semi finals? Jeez oh, that's some score, anyone have any details of this game?

It was me who said it,Johnny.

It was the quarter final we thumped Borussia Monchengladbach 11-0 on aggregate, then we beat the mighty (at that time) Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-1 on aggregate in the semi final.Wolves were actually favourites to win it that year (well according to Kenneth Wolstenholme,anyway) but we were too good for them over the two legs.

In the quarter final 1st leg in Dusseldorf we won 3-0 when Jimmy Millar and Alex Scott scored within a few minutes of each other, then The Wee Prime Minister scored in the 2nd half to virtually put the tie out of Borussia's reach. I can't give any more details because I wasn't at the match,in fact in those days it was hard enough getting to Rothesay, never mind the Rhine,for this wee Bear. but I remember the referee had a hard time trying to control the Germans from assaulting our players as they spat the dummy about getting humped.

The return leg at Ibrox may as well have been in Rothesay considering the amount of water on the pitch as it fucking pissed down in torrents the entire game.Anyway,any hopes of BMG making a comeback were well and truly sunk when Slim Jim rattled in our first goal after 2 minutes, Ralph Brand got our 2nd about 10 minutes later, I think the 3rd goal for us was an OG, (could be wrong?) then Jimmy Millar and Ralph Brand scored within 1 minute on the stroke of half-time.

Millar and Brand were at it again soon after the second half resumed; scoring within a few minutes of each other to give Ralphie his hat-trick and big Harold Davis finished the rout with a goal after about the hour mark and from there to the final whistle it was "Take the piss" football as we had the Germans running in circles trying to get the ball.

The things that stood out for me was that George Niven had hardly a save to make in the entire game and that Ian McMillan played what was arguably the best game of his life (and that's saying something) as he was pinging passes all over that soaked pitch and dancing past players like they weren't there. He was very good friends with my father and I remember him coming to our house and acting as if he had done nothing special; he was a very humble man.

There are a few interesting snippets connected to those two meetings and it certainly will never be forgotten by anybody connected to BMG at the time.

[weeto 112]

I know it wasn't a final or semi but we were really unfortunate against Steaua Bucharest in 1988.

In the quarter final we lost out in Romania 2-0 against a team that had won the European Cup two years previously. We won 2-1 at Ibrox but went out.

It was a rather weak tournament that year and PSV Eindhoven went on to win it. If we had went on to play either PSV or Benfica that year in the final, I would have fancied out chances.

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

It was me who said it,Johnny.

It was the quarter final we thumped Borussia Monchengladbach 11-0 on aggregate, then we beat the mighty (at that time) Wolverhampton Wanderers 3-1 on aggregate in the semi final.Wolves were actually favourites to win it that year (well according to Kenneth Wolstenholme,anyway) but we were too good for them over the two legs.

In the quarter final 1st leg in Dusseldorf we won 3-0 when Jimmy Millar and Alex Scott scored within a few minutes of each other, then The Wee Prime Minister scored in the 2nd half to virtually put the tie out of Borussia's reach. I can't give any more details because I wasn't at the match,in fact in those days it was hard enough getting to Rothesay, never mind the Rhine,for this wee Bear. but I remember the referee had a hard time trying to control the Germans from assaulting our players as they spat the dummy about getting humped.

The return leg at Ibrox may as well have been in Rothesay considering the amount of water on the pitch as it fucking pissed down in torrents the entire game.Anyway,any hopes of BMG making a comeback were well and truly sunk when Slim Jim rattled in our first goal after 2 minutes, Ralph Brand got our 2nd about 10 minutes later, I think the 3rd goal for us was an OG, (could be wrong?) then Jimmy Millar and Ralph Brand scored within 1 minute on the stroke of half-time.

Millar and Brand were at it again soon after the second half resumed; scoring within a few minutes of each other to give Ralphie his hat-trick and big Harold Davis finished the rout with a goal after about the hour mark and from there to the final whistle it was "Take the piss" football as we had the Germans running in circles trying to get the ball.

The things that stood out for me was that George Niven had hardly a save to make in the entire game and that Ian McMillan played what was arguably the best game of his life (and that's saying something) as he was pinging passes all over that soaked pitch and dancing past players like they weren't there. He was very good friends with my father and I remember him coming to our house and acting as if he had done nothing special; he was a very humble man.

There are a few interesting snippets connected to those two meetings and it certainly will never be forgotten by anybody connected to BMG at the time.

Some memory you have there oz, I can barely remember who scored our goals yesterday, ha

[MaddistonKnight 1,567]

I think if we hadn't been conservative in the second game, there's every chance we would have been pumped. This was a Marseille team that was probably the best team in Europe at the time. I thought we played an intelligent game over there and did as well as we could have.

I also think the only thing that changed in the home game was us nicking a goal. After that the momentum swung to us, with the crowd roaring us on, but before it we'd simply struggled against a technically much better outfit. We did play a fair amount of long ball, but that was par for the course back then and we were quite good at it generally. But it certainly wasn't all long ball. We tried to play on the ground as well. I think we were simply outplayed by a better team up until the goal.

Could not agree more on the game in Marseille.

We played to keep it really tight. In fact, it was a misplaced pass from Davie Robertson that gave away the goal. He made a pass that would have been no issue in the League, but against those boys it was lapped up. They were a special team. Pity they had to cheat their way to the final

[Ozblue 4,331]

Some memory you have there oz, I can barely remember who scored our goals yesterday, ha

My memory from games 50+ years ago is better than from last week at times and I have to admit that I can swat up on books a little which jogs the memory enough to "take me back" to the game in question.

I think it was far easier to remember games from way back because in those days there were no things like computers, phones, game consuls (or even TV) to interfere with your football,so every waking moment of your life was either spent kicking a ball, a rock or a tin can, or even a wrapped up rag around the street, or you went to the football, talked about the football and played in the school team.

There are quite a few of the older guys on the forum who would agree with me and i'm sure their memory is as good if not better than mine. Your time will come where you will be telling stories about some of our great victories in the modern era, although I'm sure you won't be able to tell them that you saw a team who had a manager that was awarded the highest military medal in Nazi Germany and presented by Adolf Hitler personally.

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

My memory from games 50+ years ago is better than from last week at times and I have to admit that I can swat up on books a little which jogs the memory enough to "take me back" to the game in question.

I think it was far easier to remember games from way back because in those days there were no things like computers, phones, game consuls (or even TV) to interfere with your football,so every waking moment of your life was either spent kicking a ball, a rock or a tin can, or even a wrapped up rag around the street, or you went to the football, talked about the football and played in the school team.

There are quite a few of the older guys on the forum who would agree with me and i'm sure their memory is as good if not better than mine. Your time will come where you will be telling stories about some of our great victories in the modern era, although I'm sure you won't be able to tell them that you saw a team who had a manager that was awarded the highest military medal in Nazi Germany and presented by Adolf Hitler personally.

Was it sellick? Ha

[harlands plater 16,975]

Was it sellick? Ha

Now now.

You can't jump to conclusions simply because a club had its ground shut down during WW2 because of pro-Nazi chants from their supporters.

[Ozblue 4,331]

Was it sellick? Ha

It was actually Borussia Monchengladbach but your answer has a lot of credence and was close to the mark

[Bobby Hume 13,068]

It was actually Borussia Monchengladbach but your answer has a lot of credence and was close to the mark

Did a wee search and found this report from a German perspective, quite a story of how it was back then you will find.

The war was still fresh in a lot of peoples memories, but the sportsmanship (not including big Harold's jaw breaker) given out at the end of the game at Ibrox is well received in this report.

Also checked out that it must have been Bernd Oles who was awarded the iron cross from Hitler.

Ozblue will you confirm if correct mate, and thanks for your great memories this story confirms.

http://bundesligafanatic.com/snapshot-applause-for-the-brave-amateurs-from-germany/

[Ozblue 4,331]

Did a wee search and found this report from a German perspective, quite a story of how it was back then you will find.

The war was still fresh in a lot of peoples memories, but the sportsmanship (not including big Harold's jaw breaker) given out at the end of the game at Ibrox is well received in this report.

Also checked out that it must have been Bernd Oles who was awarded the iron cross from Hitler.

Ozblue will you confirm if correct mate, and thanks for your great memories this story confirms.

http://bundesligafanatic.com/snapshot-applause-for-the-brave-amateurs-from-germany/

The German perspective of the game in Dusseldorf certainly differs from the Scottish perspective, especially the one from several Rangers players because it was the BMG players who were intent on handing out the rough stuff; apart from that it's a decent article.

As to your question about the manager who was awarded the Iron Cross, it was Fritz Pliska who actually was awarded the higher honour of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross.

I was a bit sneaky in my statement regarding the manager because during those games against us it certainly was Bernd Oles who was in charge, but in reality the team was built by Fritz Pilska. Bernd Oles took over as manager from Pliska only a few moths previously in strange circumstances; reportedly due to issues from certain teams/countries about the History of Pliska during the War.

It's good to see you did some research into the BMG team during that period

[Johnny Dangerously 7,562]

The German perspective of the game in Dusseldorf certainly differs from the Scottish perspective, especially the one from several Rangers players because it was the BMG players who were intent on handing out the rough stuff; apart from that it's a decent article.

As to your question about the manager who was awarded the Iron Cross, it was Fritz Pliska who actually was awarded the higher honour of the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross.

I was a bit sneaky in my statement regarding the manager because during those games against us it certainly was Bernd Oles who was in charge, but in reality the team was built by Fritz Pilska. Bernd Oles took over as manager from Pliska only a few moths previously in strange circumstances; reportedly due to issues from certain teams/countries about the History of Pliska during the War.

It's good to see you did some research into the BMG team during that period

Oz, do you know much about the time we played Moscow Dynamo and the fact they played with 12 men at one stage? Was it a friendly or competitive game? Any details would be great.