Wienblue

You certainly have a point in part. However, it is their culture and even though we despise, they are entitled to their freedom of expression. The same can be levelled at our songs and I believe in cultural freedoms for all.

I admire Keane's principles, however, he showed his lack of class in the language and disrespect he used. Never lower yourself ! As for Warner, he appears to have a tarnished history behind him, cue, selling on tickets at the last World Cup I believe !

Nobody is perfect, we all have different views, beliefs and thoughts - that is what makes us strong, even in adversity. We should always be (to use the term) a "broad church" that was one of the founding tenets of our country. The forum, the game and the world would be a sad and toiling place if we all thought the same. Diversity of opinion, when constructive should always be commended and we can always conclude the issue by agreeing to disagree - and move on ! Even amongst our colleagues, opposition, rivals and adversaries there are things which we can respect, disagree and despise - that is what makes the world and some of these debates and issues highlighted fascinating. However, never take things too seriously as there are often more important and significant issues in life...and also one's health and well-being should always have primacy !

It was obvious from the failed advanced plans and subsequent footage from the events that the police did not know what they were doing and their shambolic lack of command, care, control and overall disorganization exacerbated the situation placing not only the public at risk, but, indeed their own officers. A lack of duty of care, disproportionate response to a a public order situation, inflaming the naturally high tensions. I sincerely hope that the police will instigate criminal if not internal disciplinary measures against their officers who failed to exercise control from an organizational perspective and also those very officers from their paramilitary units who engaged in downright excessive force and racism. After all, that's why we have the tenets of the Human Rights Act and criminal and civil laws. Community Policing was turned and clubbed on its head by GMP.

It's good to see a Scotsman actually scoring for Scotland and being pleased to do so. If only there was 11 proper Scotsman in the team, then we could all be proud.

Two very prolific strikers at club level - n Celtic men thru n thru. Think they may have failed the "cricket test" when applied to football. Sean Maloney should really be playing for ROI, he'd be a good attcking option playing off a good player like Robbie Keane.

Joke, right? Their fans might be wishing their players to play for Ireland, but I cannot for the life of me think of those Celtic players regret turning out in the dark blue of Scotland. You my friend, are sounding like a rabid bigot right now. I am as proud of my country as you - but is it really my country when some of those folks are playing ? You know the answer to that as well as I. Least I am not hypocritical and will not hide. I only want Scots to play for my country - you are probably one of the very persons who will voice displeasure at the CFC players when they play Rangers and others - I don't. I have nothing against them. just don't like them playing for my country. I commend Aiden McGeady for sticking up for his principles when he opts to play for his forbears country, so, don't think that is anywhere near the offensive word you suggest. FYI - I'm watching ROI v Montenegro, better game and would also like them to win ? How many can truly say that.

The Icelandic team actually has Icelandic people in it. The Scotland team - how many are Irish and Republicans absolutely disgraceful ? The balance has well and truly been swung. Come on Iceland. Perhaps one day we'll have proper Scotsmen in that team ?

I hope Iceland do the business against Celtic / Ireland FC.

I concur. Their views are of no concern to me and will without doubt always be diammetrically opposing.

At the moment, I'd rather not have any gers players in the Scotland team not only for the sake of injuries but due to the fact they are a losing team and there is no point in being involved with losers. Why waste the energy. Very soon, the fans will desert the national team given their dire performances and the ineffective tutelage of Burley - who clearly does not know what he's doing. Let them have the plastic Irishmen: Maloney, McManus, Hartley etc; (great Scottish names ?) Better watching rugby.

Wienblue - the facts as i see them are that people feel it is ok to dish out abuse to players on the park for 90 minutes, be it through gestures or songs and when a player reacts to that abuse by making a gesture, the same people who have dished it out want criminal justice without realising that the same criminal justice applies to them. I dont come from a world or household where it is deemed okay to go about smacking people or slapping them without good reason and in my book a player flashing the finger is NOT GOOD ENOUGH reason to slap him. If you care to read your verbatim sentence again, you might want to take note of this part "irrespective of your use of the word "tit" which is very apt in the circumstances" By adding the last few words, one can only come to one conclusion about what you were referring to. I am NOT defending Boruc. I am defending any player of any club whom similarly in my view dont deserve to be battered including our very own players who have been in that situation as well. I also believe for what it is worth that if it was a St Mirren goalie doing it, nobody would want to slap him IF, and of course its a BIG IF, it turns out that Lennons side of the story turns out to be true and 2 Bears admit they gave him a slap for nothing, do you not agree this gives our club a bad name ? Would it make you proud to be a Rangers fan IF a fellow fan batters a Tim player ? YNWA: To answer your question and in conclusion: Once again, if you review my original reply to your post you will clearly see that (i) I abhor violence and (ii) believe same is wrong as in the proposition we are discussing ! I think that you are failing to fully assess and grasp facts (again) when laid bare in front of you and that is embarrassing. Much like your advocation of Boruc.

I would play for Scotland if indeed it was a proper and ethnic Scotland. How can we honestly say that the team which was destroyed by Macedonia for instance had players who were ethnic Scots and wanted to be there...Maloney, Hartley, McManus, etc; Let's be honest their heritage is Irish (Republic) not Scots - they and their kin will never be really accepted as Scots by those who are Scots. Really, they should not be in our country in the first place... I will use the words of an Arabic colleague (both based in Europe) who often comments..."a dog born in a stable is not a horse". Need I say any more. The above don't even sing the Scottish anthem...they probably don't even know the words. I wonder if they would know the words of an IRA song or the fields of athenry ? I think we know the answer.

YNWA : I honestly think you have lost the plot, in addition to the argument. You are also making yourself look embarrassing (Boruc like !!), please don't do this ! Further, where in my words have I accused you - I'll use your words of - being a "tit". I don't like using offensive grammar...unlike yourself and your defence of an individual deemed offensive by most decent fans. Once again, bizarre and questioning. Please review my sentence and you will see (be impartial when you do so) and not emotional, if possible. In fact, here it is (verbatim).."You appear to be in denial and one only has to look at your posts to evidence your stance, irrespective of your use of the word "tit" which is very apt in the circumstances" Once again, you appear to be in denial. Can you not see that - your failure to see facts and assess a situation is akin to your foolish defence of Boruc, a stance which was not even taken by the coach of Poland in recent days. That's why I am very curious as to your comments, like my colleagues.

I find it somewhat bemusing that anyone can read my posts and think im sticking up for Boruc when i do quite the contrary in what i say. My point is, you cant have one and not the other. If I stick my finger up at you and you stick it up back to me, then CRIMINAL JUSTICE will see that either both of us are arrested or neither of us are arrested. For clarification are you saying that fingers waved in his direction by Gers, Hibs, United and Aberdeen fans are equally breach of the peace and we should just start filling the cells at every football game ? Again i say.... Boruc is a TIT of the highest order. Where is MY DEFENCE OF HIM ? You appear to be in denial and one only has to look at your posts to evidence your stance, irrespective of your use of the word "tit" which is very apt in the circumstances. Those in denial never accept - that's you my friend as has been deduced from other comments. Go support Boruc if you wish and his bigotry and defend same ?...you will of course be one of the few on here notwithstanding his advocates from CFC - which is indeed bizarre !

- Criminal justice failings. What failings is that then ? What law is being broken ? And before you say sticking a finger up is against the law, then consider the songs that led to that gesture and ask if the non punishsment of these songs should also be considered criminal justice failings ? Bottom line in all this is that the man is a total tool. The SFA or Sceptic FC should bring him to task for bringing the game into disrepute but by not doing so, they fail to realise that he will continue to act like a tool, which will only EVER be to the Tims disadvantage. He has went from a £10 million rated goalie to a Mistake prone, drink loving, childish tool of a goalie in a short space of time. Slapping him only serves to give them more purpose to carry on with their campaigns. Best way to slap him is by doing eactly what Mendes, Miller and Cousin done last week I find it somewhat bemusing that you seek to defend the actions of Boruc not only last week but can you not recall previous occasions (widely documented on here and in the media) when he appears to have deliberately set out to incite fans and this has also happened when he has been playing teams, other than Rangers. The crime in law is a breach of the peace as previously addressed in my post ! He is supposed to be a professional football player and is but one of the few who consistently engages in such wayward behaviour which is enough to constitute a breach of the peace. How many other people behave like that on a football pitch ? He is supposed to set an example and has a duty as a public figure to behave properly - their is more responsibility on him and other players in such a situation and we have seen police action many years ago being applied equally to such players on the football field. However, nothing appears to happen with this man ? You should not be defending someone who seeks to deliberately provoke and who purposely incites tension, irrespective of who that person is and the team he plays for - you need to be impartial and you appear not to be in this case when you are supporting Boruc. I find your defence of him alarming ! You cite that by not bringing him into line and taking action he will continue to (re) offend and that is precisley my point. If no sanction is ever taken against someone who incites and commits a breach of the peace, the individual will continue to offend and rightly feel they are above the law, which is the situation in this case ! Hence those who feel equality of arms to be amiss may be encouraged to take the law into their own arms (which should never be the case).

Was the referee a Catholic ? Of course, the ref will go against a minority group - especially given the team is overwhelmingly a Protestant one in Catholic Europe = DISCRIMINATION - playing in a Catholic country. Wake Up guys. You want fairness, you ain't likely to get it unless you make a stand just like those who did (yesteryear) in the US civil rights movement.

Unfortunately when someone is above the law and continues to breach the peace (Boruc), yet, no action is ever taken against him then those victims and other persons who abhore double standards and hypocrisy are rightly going to be enraged. The actions of the police appear to be grossly inconsistent and discriminatory in that if you are a person like Boruc you are immune from the criminal justice system - this is fascism. Naturally, it does follow that those who believe in justice, common decency and proportionality and NEVER see it being exericised unless you are from another group will be offended and on occasion take the law into their own hands. It is surely a failing on the criminal justice system (incl: police) when people take the law into their own hands - what other alternative do they have, when the same criminals/indidivduals always escape prosecution and justice. The law should always be proportionate and everyone should be equal, otherwise we have nothing. It is perfectly understandable (whether right or wrong) that indidivduals such as Lennon and Boruc will be singled out notwithstanding their bigotry, racism and hatred, but, moreso because of the failings in the criminal justice system to take any civic sanction against them in the first place when they breach the law. Their should be no place for using violence against anyone but in this particular case we have to look at the criminal justice failings as a catalyst for such actions when they sadly occur.

Our culture, Scottish, British and Proud. A bulwark against fascism and it's evil (aka - Catholicism).

This should be a musical in the west end..."Never ending story" ! Who wants that job - their best bet is for either a local business person (with cash - it's the depressed North East, there might not be anyone) or middle eastern business people to step in - and lure KK back. Otherwise, it will lurk to another disaster again and again. How can the fans have any faith in the exec management - and it's another depressing story for a depressing place ! Emirates do fly into Newcastle once a week, so, that may give it potential for any suitors in the UAE from a marketing perspective - and I know they are keen to enter the footy market as ADUG stole a march on them last week at Man City. Etihad (owned by the ruling family) Abu Dhabi have a direct flight to Manchester. If Dubai Invest Capital waits another few months, they could get even better value for their money, especially as sterling is plunging on forex - and so, pick the club up for even less...that is their best hope a "sinking UK economy which is certainly assured". Watch this space - clouds sometimes do have a silver lining. NUFC can have potential and a good marketing base...and they can be bought for much less.

Great idea to honour and support our shared Ulster/Scots heritage and culture and the important part our cousins have played in our club ! Wonder if someone should contact the Ulster / Scots society and perhaps get funding for this - from a cultural perspective. The Ulster / Scots have made the greatest contribution throughout the world, including North America -- moreso, for the promotion of human decency and human rights! Come St Andrew's day, we should also celebrate our Scottishness as well - as we really are the only main Scots team in Glasgow, save Thistle and Queens Park. No doubt the racist and bigots from the left wing and Catholic (extremist) media will take a slant at our culture but, there are laws against discrimination and castigating ethnicities, like ourselves. Well done and just wish I could be home to see this.

Pete: Show some respect. When I looked at all these threads, well, it's something I would expect from those other people. Be civil 2 fellow bears, otherwise you often become embarrassing.

Oleg and I have our disagreements in the debate chamber, but, he is a good guy whom I respect - with the same RFC goals. Well done m8 -v/eloquent.

BD - What has really appalled me is the way in which they have treated the coloured players and sidelined them as highlighted by Evander Sno. There should be no place for that in society, let alone a football club, even if it was built on blatant sectarianism. For some strange reason they are "anti black" and anti racism groups and others should be taking this forward - they are like the "fomer south african state". Not only is child abuse a legacy of the glitterdome and also religious apartheid...now, it is apartheid based on the colour of someone's skin !!! They are racists...that disgusts me.

If you know Arabs like I do, you find that they love football and are decent, trustworthy, respectful and honourable people. If oyu cross then once it's over because trsut means everything. In their culture, family, integrity and loyatly measn everything. There money does not arise from dirty dealings as in the Russian case - or striving for a UK passport and the publicity of owning a football club to avoid unwanted focus from Putin, Medvedev et al.