viennabear

spot on! Naismith will come good - same as lafferty!

you dont have to be Einstein to work out McLeish would try for Boyd again in the summer! tried to sign him in 2 transfer windows for a transfer fee so it is obvious he will try again when he is out of contract! I would have a lot less respect for McLeish if he turned round and said i´m not interested in signing boyd anymore to be honest. And he has backed up his comments of interest with solid offers so you really can´t criticise the man for being honest

no! Rangers is an asset of MIH which has a debt of 700m to the banks. Whoever wants to buy rangers would have to buy the club at the valuaton at which MIH has on it´s balance sheet for rangers! I have no idea what this valuation is but do the maths yourself - for talkings sake 20m+ for entire 1st team squad , 50m+ for stadium , 15m+ for Murray park = at least 75m - 31m debt = atleast 44m and take on the debt. Any buyer would have to have funds to pay 44m to MIH and then additionally be able to cover the debt! Not say we will do this , and then that and then we will take that and do this and give that to them for this and get that and then sell that to have X amount of money. Llyods will not authorise the sale of rangers unless the entire cash to cover the valuation of rangers in the books of MIH is covered

100 ? I would give 1000 but it will not help! The problem is not rangers debt to the bank but MIH´s debt to the bank. Why do you think the bank dont want to name a price?? it´s because the valuation of the Rangers "asset" in MIH books is a hell of a lot more than 30m and taking the rangers asset out of MIH could result in MIH collapsing which would cost the bank nearly 700m

Rangers are a separate business entity and as such any money they generate cannot be used to pay off loans for other businesses within MIH. It can only be used to reduce loans owed by Rangers. In the past SDM may have been able to use inter-company loans to move debt about, but he is no longer in a position to do this. As far as I know the only connection between MIH and Rangers is that SDM's shareholding is held by an MIH company. incorrect. As MIH is the majority shareholder of Rangers all decisions made regarding rangers are the sole decision of MIH. As MIH is in severe debt to the bank MIH must "extract" all revenues and savings possible from all it´s buisnesses. i.e. if Rangers made a 100million pound profit the MIH would not be permited to allow the profit to be reinvested but forced to have it paid into MIH as a dividend. the same as any cash generated from player sales will go directly to reducing the debt of rangers until we are at zero and thereafter the cash generated will be seen as "profit" and must be paid out to shareholders as a dividend and thus reducing MIH´s debt.

... is not protesting against Llyods it is taking on Llyods! And this is only hypotheticaly incase the FSA start chapping my door! "Apparently" Llyods shares can at the moment be "pumped and dumped" - this is basically when a large number of smal investers all invest in a share at the same time and withdraw at the same time / high net individuals invest large sums and then sell as soon as share price goes up thus creating the illusion that the share is in high demand and suddenly all pulling out making the share price seem worthless and thereby not giving the Market Makers enough time to react and results in a share collapsing as no one knows what is going on. Market Makers do not like to make losses so they drop the share price to make more people sell so that they can then raise the price to make profit! BUT if a share is being targeted by "traders" to "pump and dump" no serious investor goes anywhere near it as they do not want to get caught out by a "price spike". If a share is being "pumped and dumped" enough it eventually becomes a no go area for long term traders and becomes a target for "shorters" which results in the company becoming a risky investment and makes the share price extremley volatile. Something , I am sure Llyods do not want to happen!!! Therefore , maybe it is time for an Organised group to have a word with Llyods and point out to them that Rangers Supporters could be willing to go to extremes to protect their club and it may be in their best interests to walk away now before their long term business plan is affected! Investor confidence in Banks is only just about starting to recover and is very fragile .. would Llyods risk it´s recovery if they knew 100,000 rangers supporters are going to start messing around with it´s shares ?? the answer for those that don´t know is "no they wouldnt" current share price for Lllyods is 48.8p - if 100,000 gers supporters invest say 100 pound each that is over 20million Llyods shares. If you then take this holding and start creating "support levels and resistance levels " you can in theory manipulate the share price whichever way you like - in theory if you constantly move the price you are willing to sell at you can make the share so confusing that the market makers pull the plug and let the share drop to wherever it goes to just to regain control. Reason for this is that there are a lot of guys who watch these "support and resistance levels" and plan their statgedy accordingly so if they see 20m supporting at say 42p they put their support in at 42p , if the sell is at 53p they put theirs in at 53p but if this 20m support and ressistance is bouncing all over the place nobody knows what is going on anymore. Example of what this can do to a bank is Royal Bank of Scotland - share price dropped from 60p to 10p because investors lost confidence and the shorters moved in ..

Debt won´t be reduced to anything mate as it is not rangers who would be going in to administration. MIH would have to go into administration and then the assets owned by MIH would be sold off by the administrators. Rangers would then be sold but whoever buys the club would have to take on the entire debt that Rangers owe. Rangers on it´s own would have no problems from the bank with a 31m debt - the problem is MIH´s 700million debt (figure thanks to DJGAZ)

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=140817

already posted this in a thread but thought I would give it a thread of it own to try and find out if anyone can confirm the assuptions made or tell where it is flawed ... I was talking to a guy who knows his stuff when it comes to financial markets etc. and though he doesnt know anything about the Rangers situation he said if looked at from a business perspective things are not as "bad" as we may think when it comes to the future of rangers! Obviously might be completley wrong due to a number of assumptions but he persumes that Rangers are owned not by Murray but by MIH and this is what is causing the current problems. Rangers as a standalone company would have no difficulties from the bank due to a 31m debt as Rangers assets i.e. Stadium , players , Murray Park etc would more than cover the debt and as long as Rangers are servicing their debt by paying their installments their would be no reason for the bank to get involved as a standalone rangers would easily pass the Banking Covenants (example Liverpool 300 odd million in debt and still passed its Banking Covenant + we were ourselves only a few years ago over 50m in debt and the banks werent really bothered) . The most likely reason that the bank is involved is that MIH is not currently in a position to service their debt/their commercial property portfolio has taken a heavy beating in the Credit Crunch and the depreciation in value of MIH assets has put it in a position that it can not currently pass the Banking Covenants required by the Bank. Their are however positives to be taken from this - Llyods are currently only involved in MIH and Rangers with a view to reducing costs and it must be seen as a positive that their has been no news of Lloyds forcing MIH to sell any of it´s property portfolio at massive losses to pay off any of its debts. The reason for this is that the bank knows itself that Markets will rebound to higher levels than before and MIH will again be in a very healthy state and they can step back out again however they have to get involved at the moment as doing nothing would be seen as "risky banking". This is also persumably the reason the bank wont budge on the debt - they would only have reason to reduce the debt for new owners if they could not recover the money by selling Rangers assets. The positive to be taken from this is that the property market rebound is expected in late 2010 early 2011 therefore we only need to get through the next transfer window intact and then as long as markets do their stuff the bank will be gone! Murray would still be here though and I seriously think we have yet to see the last of him .. similar to the last time he is getting himself out of the direct firing line so that someone else has to answer the questions and once everything settles down he will be back ...

not sure if its right but even if rangers were debt free we would still be in the same situation as we are an "asset" of MIH. As long as MIH is in bother no matter how much rangers save or raise through player sales the bank will not be going anywhere untill MIH is able to pass it´s banking covenants

this is going to sound bonkers but I was talking to a guy who knows his stuff when it comes to financial markets etc. and though he doesnt know anything about the Rangers situation he said if looked at from a business perspective things are not as "bad" as we may think when it comes to the future of rangers! Obviously might be completley wrong due to a number of assumptions but he persumes that Rangers are owned not by Murray but by MIH and this is what is causing the current problems. Rangers as a standalone company would have no difficulties from the bank due to a 31m debt as Rangers assets i.e. Stadium , players , Murray Park etc would more than cover the debt and as long as Rangers are servicing their debt by paying their installments their would be no reason for the bank to get involved as a standalone rangers would easily pass the Banking Covenants (example Liverpool 300 odd million in debt and still passed its Banking Covenant + we were ourselves only a few years ago over 50m in debt and the banks werent really bothered) . The most likely reason that the bank is involved is that MIH is not currently in a position to service their debt/their commercial property portfolio has taken a heavy beating in the Credit Crunch and the depreciation in value of MIH assets has put it in a position that it can not currently pass the Banking Covenants required by the Bank. Their are however positives to be taken from this - Llyods are currently only involved in MIH and Rangers with a view to reducing costs and it must be seen as a positive that their has been no news of Lloyds forcing MIH to sell any of it´s property portfolio at massive losses to pay off any of its debts. The reason for this is that the bank knows itself that Markets will rebound to higher levels than before and MIH will again be in a very healthy state and they can step back out again however they have to get involved at the moment as doing nothing would be seen as "risky banking". This is also persumably the reason the bank wont budge on the debt - they would only have reason to reduce the debt for new owners if they could not recover the money by selling Rangers assets. The positive to be taken from this is that the property market rebound is expected in late 2010 early 2011 therefore we only need to get through the next transfer window intact and then as long as markets do their stuff the bank will be gone! Murray would still be here though and I seriously think we have yet to see the last of him .. similar to the last time he is getting himself out of the direct firing line so that someone else has to answer the questions and once everything settles down he will be back ... this might be all a load of gibberish so apologies if someone knows more about the ins and outs and can explain it all to be nonsence

best thing about last night is that it puts the tims under immense pressure going in to games against teams we would normally be hoping for them to drop points against! They will struggle to get points from the matches against Hearts , Utd and Aberdeen and as long as our team does it´s part we could be between 15 and 20 points ahead by the end of february

You must be a right delicate fucker. not at all delicate but 3 cunts booting you up and down a street because of the colour of your skin does make you a bit cautious Avoid the subway then. Apparently it's where they hang about. Get the bus up Paisley Road West. You're making out Ibrox is surrounded by BNP folk looking for 'darkies' to attack. It's not. Poor excuse to miss matches. and what happens if i do bump in to your BNP buddies? Do I get a BNP badge and a Lucky Bag? might seem to you to be an excuse but i´ve got my own reasons to not get myself in any bother and sadly going to matches could put me in such a position. btw m8 - "Darkies" prefer being called "coloured"

You must be a right delicate fucker. not at all delicate but 3 cunts booting you up and down a street because of the colour of your skin does make you a bit cautious

the BNP hanging around ibrox is the reason that I dont go to the matches since I moved back to glasgow! Have bumped in to a few on a couple of occasions in the past and can be a bit unnerving but have always found as soon as anything is said there is no shortage of fellow supporters to tell them to get tae fuck

there are 2 ways to handle this situation .... either sell both before the transfer window closes or put both on the bench for the reserves untill their contracts end! it is possibly also time for us to reasses Murray Park! Is there really much point in developing youth players that will be off to England at the 1st sign of them making an impact at 1st team level? A few years back players would have been looking to make that move at 21 to 24 which would atleast give you a decent return on your investment developing the player! It might be worth considering looking in to youth academy partnerships abroad rather than having our own youth setup! A partnership with the likes of Ajax would imo provide us with better quality youth players than we could ever produce at Murray Park

Two great players who knew what playing for the jersey was all about. I also think that Gough is allowed a opinion as as the only Rangers player to win all 9 medals and has to watch average players who seem to be going through the motions. gough also walked away at the end of the 9 in a row campaign instead of trying to help us get 10! Also , did Ian Ferguson and Ally not also get all 9 medals?

Gazza & Weir

what right do the legends have to slag off the current squad? Gough and Hateley come out with their words of wisdom but conveniently forget that had they performed on the european stage and achieved a bit of success Rangers would be in a better financial position now! DM wouldnt have had to bring in DA , we wouldnt have had to spend 80 odd million trying to put a team together that could perform to a reasonable standard in europe ! The current team might not be great to watch but it HAS been succesfull and in comparison to the 9 in a row team has achieved more on the European stage. And before anyone starts talking about Kaunas and Unirea ... take a look at the European results of the 9 in a row team

not a bad a suggestion as some seem to think! Wilson and Weir seem to be ok in the centre for the moment and Bougherra´s ability to charge forward would be of an advantage on the right flank. Obviously playing players out of position is not ideal but if the player you are moving is able to do a better job for you there whilst being competently replaced in his natural position then why not? a) Whitakker Bougherra Weir Papac b) Bougherra Weir Wilson Papac which do you think is the better defence - on current form i´d go with b!

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=51...sid=919573.html 20000 euro fine plus damages

I understand that but we have got to realise that this is income the club expects to generate! It is however not enough! The only way for the club to move forward is to get rid of the debt! Season Tickets , Strip Sales and Champions League money is not going to cover our costs aslong as we have the Bank debt to service!

... why cant 150000 of us put 200 pounds each in to a fund to wipe out the clubs debt?? if the Blue Order or Rangers Assembly were to set up such a fund how many of you would be prepared to put up the money? I am not suggesting the fans buy the club or even a percentage , nor do I suggest a repersentative on the board in return for the money. It would be simply a cheque for XX million handed over to pay the bank off so that we could regain control! For those who think this is a riddiculous idea I would appreciate a better suggestion rather than merely a one liner to mock the suggestion! For those who think why should we I ask the answer to one simple question - do you want to be in celtics shadow for the next 10 years??

if a new owner comes in then I would expect Walter , Ally and Kenny to be replaced ... The new owner would be paying murray in the region of 40million for his stake and then hopefully investing another 20-30 million over the next couple of years in making changes to the squad .... I honestly cant see someone spending that kind of money and then not bringing their own people in. On the other hand it might be someone who thinks Walter is the right man for the job , extends his contract and lets him lose with 20-30 million ... I would love to see Walter be given that kind of money to build a team which he could hand over to Ally in a couple of years.

sorry for posting this in the Bears Den but could you do me a favour please folks? brothers entered the wee man in the sun baby competition proudly displaying the colours could you all please follow the link and vote for the little fella. http://sunbeams.thesun.co.uk/ search for SAHIL cheers and apologies again for creating a non football related thread in the Bears Den